Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Portage & Main => Topic started by: Maxnchej on November 10, 2014, 07:14:15 PM
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Hi All,
I just bought a new bl2840. I helped install it with the dealer who I purchased it from and had it up and running on Saturday Nov 8. The install went well and I will post some pictures once I get them off my phone. I'm located in Southern Ontario and it hasn't been that cold so far but the boiler is running heating my water and house, house is at 71, very nice ;D. House size is 2400 sq feet plus 1400 in a unfinished basement. So my BL has been running for just over 48 hours and I have a number of questions.
1. I have black water/creosote coming out of the clean out door. I called PM today and they indicated that this is due to it being not to cold outside. My question is are others having this issue? If so do you only run the stove when it is really cold? Here in Southern Ontario it can have large temperature swings within days from very cold to mild.
2. When I talked to PM they told me to do a high temperature firing, so I did one tonight. Brought the stove up to 195 and then closed the door. It raised to 197 and then water started to come out of the cap, and since cooled back down into the 180 range. It also made a knocking sounds when I had the ash door open with no fan running to do the high firing. Is this normal? Should the water come out?
3. I also noticed a large build up of creosote on both the fire camber and ash doors and in the fire camber as well. I scraped them down but was surprised to see that much. I'm burning two year season wood. How often should I be cleaning and should I be seeing a big build up so soon?
4. I have my temp set to 180 and a diff of 10, does that sound good?
5. Every time I open the door I get a face full of smoke. I have tried opening it a crack and waiting a few then opening but still smoke. I end up smelling like smoke and I was hoping that it would be more like a wood stove. Do others have this issue?
Hoping someone can help me since I'm concerned that I'm doing something wrong. It was a large investment and don't want to mess it up.
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Who in the heck is telling you this stuff, I'm sending you my contact info, Please call me tomorrow evening
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It would be great if I could talk to someone, I'm struggling and want to make sure that I'm doing everything right. I have been using a wood stove for 10 years and never had a issue. I look forward to hearing from you slimjim.
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I sent you my contact info including E-Mail, Please send me yours as well !
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You're doing ok. It's a learning process. As long as its burning wood and making heat, you'll figure it out. They make creosote and smoke. That comes with the territory.
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Maxnchej, I'm a new owner of the BL-2840, I've been running mine going on five weeks now, so I may be able to answer some of your questions.
1-When I started my BL-2840 for the first time, I had some water coming out of the ash door, it cleared up after a few cycles. It may help to set your boiler temperature to 185-190F degrees for the day, as the temperature goes up, you will have some water expansion which will overflow through the water gauge opening. Another thing I learned, is to be certain the ash door is shut very tightly.
2-Whenever I open the ash door fully, I hear a pulsating sound or vibration which makes my draft blower's air back draft flap rattle, I would imagine this is normal.
3-Once the outdoor temps get colder, the creosote will be minimized.
4-180 with a diff 0f 10 is o good setting. I've been running mine at 185 diff 10 just to keep the glassy creosote under control until colder temps set in which should begin tomorrow, 20's for the highs & single digits for the overnight lows for the next eight day forecast for Wisconsin.
4-I get a lot of smoke coming out the loading door too as I'm loading it. I just bring whatever amount of firewood I need for loading, next to the stove & toss it all in before the wood begins to smolder.
Hope this helps you some. :)
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Maxnchej,
I am also a new 2840 owner. Fired mine for the first time the same day you did, November 8, 2014. Very please with how quickly the fire took and how little smoke it produces. Started with a small torch, shut the door and within minutes, FIRE. I also get smoke out of the door. Depending on the wind and the time I load, the smoke does vary from heavy to very little. Like oaky said, load quickly to minimize smoldering smoke... Be cautious. If you load just after the blower shuts off, read the caution sticker on the door. It will re-ignite and FLASH. I have mine set at 190 +/- 10. I like to run mine hot. Just under steam temperature of 200-205 degrees. It has not gotten above 194. Let it do what it gets paid to do... I made the same mistake you did. I filled the water jacket to full when it was cold. The stove got hot, water expanded, and it had to go somewhere. I've made a mental note to myself to check water level only when hot. After it reached 190F, the guage leveled out just below the full mark. I also think I am going to buy another section of stove pipe to get it up a little higher. Mine sets just beside my shop and I think if the exhaust was up a little higher, it may pull a draft through the front door and reduce / eliminate smokin' out the front. Does either of you have a pipe cap on your stove pipe? I'm not sure if we should even worry about having one on the pipe. Just asking... It's not cold here yet, but I believe I'll be getting what oaky mentioned tomorrow or Wednesday. Looking forward to some cold days in Kentucky (never thought I would be saying that...)
Send me your contact info and I can share some pics of my install. I've not yet figured out how to attach even the smallest file. It tells me the file is too large and to contact an administrator.
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I have 3 sections of pipe. I can tell you, mine still smokes out the door when I open it.
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I get condensation out the ash door especially if I'm burning wood that I don't have under my lean too. We have been getting lots of rain as of late. I hope it clears up when the colder weather arrives
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Maxnchej,
I am also a new 2840 owner. Fired mine for the first time the same day you did, November 8, 2014. Very please with how quickly the fire took and how little smoke it produces. Started with a small torch, shut the door and within minutes, FIRE. I also get smoke out of the door. Depending on the wind and the time I load, the smoke does vary from heavy to very little. Like oaky said, load quickly to minimize smoldering smoke... Be cautious. If you load just after the blower shuts off, read the caution sticker on the door. It will re-ignite and FLASH. I have mine set at 190 +/- 10. I like to run mine hot. Just under steam temperature of 200-205 degrees. It has not gotten above 194. Let it do what it gets paid to do... I made the same mistake you did. I filled the water jacket to full when it was cold. The stove got hot, water expanded, and it had to go somewhere. I've made a mental note to myself to check water level only when hot. After it reached 190F, the guage leveled out just below the full mark. I also think I am going to buy another section of stove pipe to get it up a little higher. Mine sets just beside my shop and I think if the exhaust was up a little higher, it may pull a draft through the front door and reduce / eliminate smokin' out the front. Does either of you have a pipe cap on your stove pipe? I'm not sure if we should even worry about having one on the pipe. Just asking... It's not cold here yet, but I believe I'll be getting what oaky mentioned tomorrow or Wednesday. Looking forward to some cold days in Kentucky (never thought I would be saying that...)
Send me your contact info and I can share some pics of my install. I've not yet figured out how to attach even the smallest file. It tells me the file is too large and to contact an administrator.
Thanks for responding to my treed, funny that we both started up on the same day, I'm also looking for cold weather, based on the news should be getting cold here tomorrow and I'm looking forward to it. :thumbup: When I called PM yesterday they told me not to put a cap on it since it will create condensation and the water will go back into the stove. I asked them what about rain and they said it shouldn't rain during the winter. I informed the rep that it rains in southern Ontario and they said I would be OK without one.
I still need to put in my treatment, my dealer wanted me to wait a few days before I added it, when I talked to PM they informed me to put it in right away, but since I had the issue with the water coming out of the top I decided to wait until tonight.
Are you having a large build up of creosote in your stove?
Have you sent in your sample yet?
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I get condensation out the ash door especially if I'm burning wood that I don't have under my lean too. We have been getting lots of rain as of late. I hope it clears up when the colder weather arrives
You make a good point, all of my wood does sit outside uncovered since I just have to much to cover and it has rained a lot. I wouldn't think surface water would cause that big of an issue, I have been burning the same wood in my wood stove for 10 years without issue and never had a build up in my chimney, but I guess it could be one reason why.
I just loaded my stove this morning and after my hot burn last night and scraping I haven't had a more leaking out of the ash pan. Will be interesting to see what I come home to tonight.
Thanks for replying .
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I find the best way to avoid the smoke is to load when the fan is running, not recommended but I never had issues - yet. When fan is running there is little to no smoke, I can see without the flashlight in hand while stirring coals and have never had a flashback while loading this way.
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Two different boilers, The extra passes and heat trap are designed to make the unit more efficient, the stack temps on your B-L will be far lower than your old stove, the trade off for that efficiency will be that your fuel must be in a bit better shape, rain soaks into the wood when uncovered, can you still burn it? well yes you can in a campfire or straight up conventional stove but you will burn far more more, also do not stuff the firebox full of wood, only put in enough to get through until you return, shoot for 12 hours.
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I have a chimney cap on mine, P&M says not to. It does rain here in Wisconsin during the winter whenever we get a mild spell and precept in the forecast. Cleaned out my 5' of chimney after five weeks of operation & got a handful of fine dust. You may want to put in the treatment soon as possible, depending on your water quality, the water-jacket could start to rust & you will need to flush out the water-jacket & water lines if it gets too bad.
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I have a chimney cap on mine, P&M says not to. It does rain here in Wisconsin during the winter whenever we get a mild spell and precept in the forecast. Cleaned out my 5' of chimney after five weeks of operation & got a handful of fine dust. You may want to put in the treatment soon as possible, depending on your water quality, the water-jacket could start to rust & you will need to flush out the water-jacket & water lines if it gets too bad.
I put the treatment in tonight, I would have when I was filling it but the dealer informed me not to, Wish I would have done it anyway. Where I live it also rains during the winter, just wondering if I should get a cap for mine. Did you buy the cap from PM or get somewhere else?
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I bought my chimney cap from Menards, a different cap brand but fits perfectly & doesn't restrict chimney air draft flow. It's good that you have the treatment in now. Are you still having excess condensation forming yet?
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I bought my chimney cap from Menards, a different cap brand but fits perfectly & doesn't restrict chimney air draft flow. It's good that you have the treatment in now. Are you still having excess condensation forming yet?
When I got home tonight It look like there was some during the day on the pad, but it was dry by the time I was home. So it is much better then it has been. It was really warm here, about 62 and going to drop to the low 40 tonight. I think the high burn and cleaning has helped. I plan to use it from Oct to April each year so I hope I get it under control since there will be mild days in that run time.
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Hi Maxnchej,
I too just started up a new bl2840 a few weeks ago and am learning the ins and outs of burning wood. A couple of things from another newbie's perspective. As uponthehill stated, beware of opening the door just after the fan has stopped running as this is when flashback has most potential. I'm lucky I kept my eyebrows the first time it happened to me. When I opened the door and the fresh air rushed in, I got a 5-6' flame ball that erupted out in an upward fashion (follows heated gases as they escape out the front door). Now the only way I know if a burn cycle has just happened is to check the temp gauge. if temp is as set point, then I know there's a good chance that one was recent and I approach with caution, opening door slowly and standing to left, behind it. I've noticed this happens more if there's more wood in the stove, holding heat after a cycle. As far as a cap on my stack, I did put one on mine. I just didn't want to have rain water running down my stack. Here in Ohio, we have rain more often than snow. The only down fall to this is that the back of my stove looks a bit unsightly as drops of condensation drip from the cap onto the back of my stove (hey, atleast the stove is black).
I too notice condensation in my ash pan occasionally and the creosote buildup is more than I expect, however, like you the temps here have not been cold and I think with more firing when the temps drop, this will improve.
Hope this helps
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Hi Maxnchej,
I too just started up a new bl2840 a few weeks ago and am learning the ins and outs of burning wood. A couple of things from another newbie's perspective. As uponthehill stated, beware of opening the door just after the fan has stopped running as this is when flashback has most potential. I'm lucky I kept my eyebrows the first time it happened to me. When I opened the door and the fresh air rushed in, I got a 5-6' flame ball that erupted out in an upward fashion (follows heated gases as they escape out the front door). Now the only way I know if a burn cycle has just happened is to check the temp gauge. if temp is as set point, then I know there's a good chance that one was recent and I approach with caution, opening door slowly and standing to left, behind it. I've noticed this happens more if there's more wood in the stove, holding heat after a cycle. As far as a cap on my stack, I did put one on mine. I just didn't want to have rain water running down my stack. Here in Ohio, we have rain more often than snow. The only down fall to this is that the back of my stove looks a bit unsightly as drops of condensation drip from the cap onto the back of my stove (hey, atleast the stove is black).
I too notice condensation in my ash pan occasionally and the creosote buildup is more than I expect, however, like you the temps here have not been cold and I think with more firing when the temps drop, this will improve.
Hope this helps
Thanks for providing me your details, it does help a lot. I live about 2 hours from the Ohio border, so our temperature is similar year around.
Where did you get your cap from?
I check the stove this morning and loaded it and there was no water in the ash pan, but it got cold last night and there was not wood in the firebox either, just coals, the stove temp was down to 164 and the fan was running.
I have also learned to always stand to the left behind the door to get less smoke in the face and to be safe.
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I picked up my cap (6") at Menards. It's a cheapy at ~$7. I did not go with the deluxe version at ~$40. I have no regrets.
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I'm a newby at this also. Started my 2840 11-7. I have all the same things all of you have. Water expanded and ran out, condensation, smoke in my face, etc. Was hoping it was all normal and looks like it is. Weather got cold here and most problems disappeared. My house is warm and my shop is warm. What more could I want? Talked to Slimjim on the phone yesterday and dang that guy is great! He really is knowledgable and helpful.
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I'm a newby at this also. Started my 2840 11-7. I have all the same things all of you have. Water expanded and ran out, condensation, smoke in my face, etc. Was hoping it was all normal and looks like it is. Weather got cold here and most problems disappeared. My house is warm and my shop is warm. What more could I want? Talked to Slimjim on the phone yesterday and dang that guy is great! He really is knowledgable and helpful.
That he is! :thumbup:
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Maxnchej. I put 1/2 the amount of treatment in when I filled. The sample will go in the mail tomorrow. Forgot today. Monday was Veterans Day. My reason for the extra section of pipe is this.... My 2840 sets ~ 4' beside my shop. When the wind comes over the roof, it drops and swirls. I think if the smoke exits higher, it will be taken over the hill and away from me and the shop. It's worth it to me to try. If I don't locate a section of the Security pipe locally, I am ordering from PM tomorrow. One thing I've learned is that loading while it's calling for heat and there is a fire in the hole, there is almost no smoke. Get your pieces ready, open, stoke, load, and shut the door. Today is Nov.12. In four days, my ash pan is about 1/3 full. I think that is pretty amazing. Burning a lot of scrap pieces now to get rid of some laps. I too have noticed ash pan door condensation to the point of dripping out the door when it is closed. I have placed a 1/2 full 14" x 16" x 4" pan of water to catch the dippings at the ash pan door and out the back of the stack. This is only to keep my new concrete pad from staining.
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I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with the same issues/questions.
I talked to SimJim on Thursday morning and he was great. If anyone has any questions please reach out to him. I haven't been able to post for the past two days since my Internet has been down, wireless internet living in the country - what are you going to do >:D.
Today will mark one week running my mew bl2840 so I plan to let it burn down today and clean out the ash tray and do a little scraping.
I have changed my set temp from 180 to 185 and the unit is running much cleaner and better, plan to push it up to 190 today to see it is reduce the last little bit of creosote that the unit is producing.
I will be sending in my sample this weekend as well since it has been running for a week.
I like the though of using a pan under the ash door to caught the drippings, something else that I'm going to do today as well, no I need to figure out how I can clean my new cement since it is not looking nice at all.
Thanks to all of you who have helped over the pas week, I'm loving having a nice warm house and burning no propane!!!! :thumbup: