Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Dragfluid on November 20, 2014, 08:33:42 PM
-
Have been reading here for some time now, and I must say that there's a wealth of good info. Am planning on building my own unit soon this year, and will be using ideas found here.
BUT,,,,,,,, one of the most confusing and frustrating things that I keep reading here over and over is things like: "it's heating upwards of 10,000 UN-insulated square feet"
"my windows are very leaky"
"only have about 6" of insulation in the attic"
"haven't had time to go around with a can of foam and seal up the air leaks"
etc, etc.
Come on, guys. You need to fix the your building envelope! Why spend all that money on such a large furnace when 1/4 to 1/2 of the heat is being wasted? And burn all those cords?
It just doesn't make sense.
Discuss
-
leaky old builds are famer like stuff ...any cheap heat has got to be appreciated ..I was one ...hard as heck to go back a get it right..my chit is so tight I boil over.. my .02cents
-
My fathers reasoning why he never tightened up the old farm house I live in now is then you might have radon problems.....
Um yah, windows, a few new doors and house wrap has made a world of difference. Some old house's (mine included) still have some knob and post electric in them, you do not cover that stuff up with insulation, hence the only six inches of insulation in the attics. When I get that stuff replaced I plan on blowing in another foot of fiberglass.
-
I'm sure you got some of those from me. Here's my reasoning.... I'm 26 years old. It doesn't kill me to go cut a few cords in a weekend. The amount of wood usage doesn't make the initial cost of the stove any cheaper. What I paid for the stove is what my heating bill will be for the next 15-20 years (hopefully?). I live in an old farmhouse and I'm constantly working on it. I really just don't have the time or the money to spend on windows. Especially when they are still perfectly clear :thumbup: I understand what you mean though. But it's easier for me to just throw a couple extra logs in the stove than spending thousands on windows and insulation.
-
Look at the issue a different way! Pay once for a great insulation/sealing job on your home or pay a little bit extra every year to heat and cool you home FOREVER ;)
-
I am 100% on the same page as Mr. AirForcePOL. My finances we absolutely BLEEDING when the sellers lied to us on the heating bills. I had to stop the bleeding. I now heat my poorly insulated house for $150 a month instead of over $600. Most of those savings go to paying off the stove. Cutting wood is practically a hobby. I'm not going to spend another large sum of money for new windows just to save on "free" wood.
-
heated the house for two years with fuel oil $3000+ each year and not really keeping it the temp I wanted and that was hauling off road fuel from town which is .40 cents cheaper than delivery price. Figured I'd pay up for a outdoor boiler so I could start saving immediately on the cost of fuel oil, all the extra savings will go toward insulation in the future. A semi truck load of wood costs $1200, hoping to not use the whole load plus I come across free wood now and then and heating the domestic. Really like the feeling of giving money to the logger than the gas company, although they are still getting some money in the end from the logger.
-
I am 100% on the same page as Mr. AirForcePOL. My finances we absolutely BLEEDING when the sellers lied to us on the heating bills. I had to stop the bleeding. I now heat my poorly insulated house for $150 a month instead of over $600. Most of those savings go to paying off the stove. Cutting wood is practically a hobby. I'm not going to spend another large sum of money for new windows just to save on "free" wood.
Nothing is "free". :)
-
Putting plastic over windows helps a ton. I have new anderson windows on order to replace my 1975 windows and I bet I will throw plastic on the new ones too. Zero air leaks.
-
Mr. Dragfluid, that debate had been had on here before, so I won't dive into it again. But, yes, it is free in my mind.
-
Mr. Dragfluid, that debate had been had on here before, so I won't dive into it again. But, yes, it is free in my mind.
Most of what I cut comes from along fencerows on the home farm or fencerows from over a thousand acres of rented land, if you don't cut the stuff up then you just have to take a loader to the field to shove em out of the field so might as well cut it up and burn it.
-
<sigh> :bash:
-
I live in a pre-1900 home, stone walls, lathe and plaster.
New windows
Insulation in the roof
Foam wherever I can stuff it in the crawlspace.
I caulk the hell out of anything.
But I'm not going to gut the walls and fill it full of insulation. There is an air cavity there that has been there since the
house was built. I want this house here when I'm gone.
Changing the warmth going from the inside of the house to the out, changes where the freeze thaw occurs. This might
cause deterioration, then again, it might not. As long as there are cheaper alternatives to fuel, I'm going to go that route.
http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/pdf/65033.pdf (http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/pdf/65033.pdf)
-
http://www.cchrc.org/ (http://www.cchrc.org/)
-
Here's some info for you that's a little more complete, and up to date. :)
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/bareports/ba-1105-internal-insulation-masonry-walls-final-measure-guideline/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/bareports/ba-1105-internal-insulation-masonry-walls-final-measure-guideline/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage)
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/confpapers/cp-0910-measuring-impact-interior-insulation-masonry-walls-cold-climate/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/confpapers/cp-0910-measuring-impact-interior-insulation-masonry-walls-cold-climate/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage)
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-114-interior-insulation-retrofits-of-load-bearing-masonry-walls-in-cold-climates?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-114-interior-insulation-retrofits-of-load-bearing-masonry-walls-in-cold-climates?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage)
This isn't my first rodeo. :)
Enjoy!
-
Here's some info for you that's a little more complete, and up to date. :)
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/bareports/ba-1105-internal-insulation-masonry-walls-final-measure-guideline/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/bareports/ba-1105-internal-insulation-masonry-walls-final-measure-guideline/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage)
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/confpapers/cp-0910-measuring-impact-interior-insulation-masonry-walls-cold-climate/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/confpapers/cp-0910-measuring-impact-interior-insulation-masonry-walls-cold-climate/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage)
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-114-interior-insulation-retrofits-of-load-bearing-masonry-walls-in-cold-climates?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-114-interior-insulation-retrofits-of-load-bearing-masonry-walls-in-cold-climates?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage)
This isn't my first rodeo. :)
Enjoy!
Thanks I'll look it over, although, from what I am seeing from your first link it's still a "We're in a state of wait and see if it causes any damage". The closed-cell definitely would be my first choice, which seems to be their recommendation, but I still need to see how the story ends in the rest of the PDFs.
Right now, I'm not overly worried about the walls, especially considering once you rip a wall open, you're subjecting yourself into some real potential problems, such as whether or not someone decided to insulate with asbestos, knob and tube wiring needing to be replaced. Retrofitting these old buildings is something takes a lot of pros and cons to work out.
-
Thanks I'll look it over, although, from what I am seeing from your first link it's still a "We're in a state of wait and see if it causes any damage". The closed-cell definitely would be my first choice, which seems to be their recommendation, but I still need to see how the story ends in the rest of the PDFs.
Right now, I'm not overly worried about the walls, especially considering once you rip a wall open, you're subjecting yourself into some real potential problems, such as whether or not someone decided to insulate with asbestos, knob and tube wiring needing to be replaced. Retrofitting these old buildings is something takes a lot of pros and cons to work out.
I'm in the same pickle at the moment, I'd like to see another foot of insulation in the attics, but covering up knob and post is a no-no, least I've always been told it is. I've been trying to remodel a room or two a year, when the walls are ripped open I run new romex down to the new 200 amp breaker box and remove the knob and post. When I redid the siding a layer of fan fold and house wrap helped tremendously as well as new windows in each room as we go. I suppose I could take out a loan and pay somebody to do it, but I'm practically debt free and paying somebody to do something I can do myself irritates me to no end. Besides if I do it myself I know it's right.
-
Take this in guys
I live in a 20 year old 1600 ft bungalow with 10" ' walls and insulation up the wahoo. [ NO NOT PRISON]
It's so airtight the previous owners put in an air exchanger to bring in today's -20 air.
I was burning propane and did not think this set-up, especially with the air exchanger, to be cost effective.
If i don't run the air exchanger in the freezing temps. the windows get wet on the inside.
Now with the FREE wood who cares how much fresh cold air goes into the FAF
Everyone has different ideas.
You do, or not do, what ya want.
KK ;D
-
Now with the FREE wood who cares how much fresh cold air goes into the FAF
I agree with you about if the abundance of wood is there, and you can get it for a far cheaper price than other fuels, then it makes absolute
sense.
I'm trying to figure out a method for myself, that when I take from my land, that I plant a tree (preferrably two) in its place. There are two reasons, the first is that trees being a carbon store will release the carbon on burning. They do stop absorbing after a period of time, but they keep what they have stored out of the environment. By planting two, I will have enabled hopefully twice the carbon store, but keeping the management of my land up. *This is the dream*
Of course, I need to figure out how much that would cost. Maybe I will raise baby trees in a greenhouse with a wood boiler heating it :)
-
Now with the FREE wood who cares how much fresh cold air goes into the FAF
I agree with you about if the abundance of wood is there, and you can get it for a far cheaper price than other fuels, then it makes absolute
sense.
I'm trying to figure out a method for myself, that when I take from my land, that I plant a tree (preferrably two) in its place. There are two reasons, the first is that trees being a carbon store will release the carbon on burning. They do stop absorbing after a period of time, but they keep what they have stored out of the environment. By planting two, I will have enabled hopefully twice the carbon store, but keeping the management of my land up. *This is the dream*
Of course, I need to figure out how much that would cost. Maybe I will raise baby trees in a greenhouse with a wood boiler heating it :)
-
Now with the FREE wood who cares how much fresh cold air goes into the FAF
I agree with you about if the abundance of wood is there, and you can get it for a far cheaper price than other fuels, then it makes absolute
sense.
:)
Like someone will say nothing is free.
I have access to 50+ acres of mixed forest.
I take out 20 trees a year so far and have wood left over.
My neighbour grabs a bit also, but he's not using much.
So other than a little gas and some sweat, it's free.
Nothing we do is good for the environment, unfortunately.
Planting trees is a help :thumbup:
KK
-
Long as you have a healthy woods you shouldn't need to replant what you cut, I only cut dead, damaged or dying trees, they've had plenty of time to produce seed. If anything I've been thinking about getting a forester out as I think my woods might actually be too thick for good timber production.
-
Long as you have a healthy woods you shouldn't need to replant what you cut, I only cut dead, damaged or dying trees, they've had plenty of time to produce seed. If anything I've been thinking about getting a forester out as I think my woods might actually be too thick for good timber production.
Indiana's Forestry Service will come out to your property and tell you what trees should stay, which should be cut down, all while catering to your objectives with your forested property. They helped me out a great deal and the service is free. Plan today for your retirement fund timber tomorrow Marty. ;)
-
Come on, guys. You need to fix the your building envelope! Discuss
I agree Dragfluid. My advice is to start sealing atthe rim joists. There are many effective ways to seal rim joists but I had spare
Dow blueboard laying around that I chose to use in conjunction with Great Stuff Pro foam sealing the perimeters of the foamboard.
(http://www.jesseshunting.com/photopost/data/500/rimjoistinsulation.JPG)
From what I have read, this is the number one source of cold air infiltration into a present day stick built home. I have actually seen a notable increase in temeprature in my basement and a decrease in my current propane (!!!) usage.
I learned quite a bit about insulating rim joists from The Family Handyman and Larry Janesky (of Dr. Energy Saver fame/fortune).
LINK: Insulate Basement Rim Joists (Click Here) (http://www.familyhandyman.com/basement/insulate-basement-rim-joists/view-all)
LINK (Video): Sealing and Insulating the Rim Joists (Click Here) (http://www.drenergysaver.com/about-dr-energy-saver/videos/4076-sealing-and-insulating-the-rim-joist.html)
-
When my house was built, instead of sheathing the outside of the structure in chipboard, they used a product called SIS (Structural Insulation System -> http://oxengineeredproducts.com/building-products/styrofoam-sis-insulated-sheathing/ (http://oxengineeredproducts.com/building-products/styrofoam-sis-insulated-sheathing/)) basically 1" foam boards that is designed for the application. Other nice thing is that once the seams are taped you do not need to cover in TYVEK, just side right over it.
-
Long as you have a healthy woods you shouldn't need to replant what you cut, I only cut dead, damaged or dying trees, they've had plenty of time to produce seed. If anything I've been thinking about getting a forester out as I think my woods might actually be too thick for good timber production.
Indiana's Forestry Service will come out to your property and tell you what trees should stay, which should be cut down, all while catering to your objectives with your forested property. They helped me out a great deal and the service is free. Plan today for your retirement fund timber tomorrow Marty. ;)
Meh, I already have a state park across the road, having the state come out to my property for any reason makes me nervous.
The one woods will be easy, it's 50% ash, 20% tulip poplar and 30% assorted other stuff. Ashes are dying anyways and the tulip poplar will never be anything but pallet.