Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Fire Wood => Topic started by: Jared43758 on December 27, 2014, 11:08:30 PM
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I can get semi loads of good logs 95% red oak, then some hickory an white oak, delivered free for $32 a ton. I have got 14-15 ton before and ends up costing around $500 give or take $40. Can anyone give me a guess of how many cords 15 ton of green oak is? Just trying to figure a rough guess of how many cords of wood I'm getting from a semi load
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http://www.csgnetwork.com/logweight.html (http://www.csgnetwork.com/logweight.html)
red oak; 1 green cord = 5700 lb
So, you pay $32/2000lb/1 ton
1 green cord = 5700lb = 2.85 ton
So you pay about;
2.85ton x $32/ ton = $91.20 for 1 green cord.
Not bad, not great.
Around here, split, stacked dry wood is $120-160/cord.
I can get semi loads of good logs 95% red oak, then some hickory an white oak, delivered free for $32 a ton. I have got 14-15 ton before and ends up costing around $500 give or take $40. Can anyone give me a guess of how many cords 15 ton of green oak is? Just trying to figure a rough guess of how many cords of wood I'm getting from a semi load
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15 ton = 5.26 cords
you paid $500; so about $95/ green cord.
If it's split and dried, not a bad deal.
If it's green logs, unspilt; it's less good.
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Wow, I always thought i was getting a good deal. I always heated with a hotblast indoor stove and one semi load lasted me all winter with usually a pickup load or so left over. So for $500 a year to hear my house was pretty good. Now I'm going to get a heatmaster owb, and I hear they can use 7-10 cords a year. I plan on using some coal but I don't know how well it will work yet or how much I can mix or how much wood it'll save me. It's bituminous coal, that's all I've been using this year is coal only, got 5 ton for $325 and no cutting or spilting. I'm having good luck with it although cleaning the soot and controlling the dust and smell inside sucks. I'm sure it'll be better outside then inside.
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It's not terrible some locations are way higher, 90 per cord of oak was the going price here last spring.
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I have a NCB-250 coal unit.
Bit coal in large is high in sulfur. I use anthrocite, which is more expansive but much higher BTU and no smell at all.
I have 4500sqft new well insulated house, with DHW; last year that was the worst winter in 50 years, I used
2 cords of wood, and 5.5 ton anthracite to keep the house at 75F.
I used to heat with coal inside, it is very dirty. You will like the outdoor unit, but you need shaker grates and a boiler made for coal burning.
Sometimes, I just don't have time and energy to split and haul 10 cords of wood. If I burned wood alone, I don't think 10 cords would be enough for me.
5 ton for $325 is probably very high in sulfur. KY low sulfur coal is about $100-120 / ton. I pay about the same for anthracite, but it's a special deal. For $600 keeping 4500sqft at 75 for 6 months, with little splitting, is a good deal for me. I spend more on my wood trailer and chain saws, and my time on cutting wood. If I had more time, I'd cut more wood, but right now, I have less time and I rather use more coal so I don't have to worry if have enough seasoned wood.
I also do not have a large barn to hold 20 cords to season for this year and some for next year. I have a 12x10x6high coal bin that they just fill up - free delivery, and I don't even have to lift a shovel. I keep the 2 cords under a tarp, so it's easy for me.
Splitting 2-3 cords is enough workout for my back after years of doing it.
Wow, I always thought i was getting a good deal. I always heated with a hotblast indoor stove and one semi load lasted me all winter with usually a pickup load or so left over. So for $500 a year to hear my house was pretty good. Now I'm going to get a heatmaster owb, and I hear they can use 7-10 cords a year. I plan on using some coal but I don't know how well it will work yet or how much I can mix or how much wood it'll save me. It's bituminous coal, that's all I've been using this year is coal only, got 5 ton for $325 and no cutting or spilting. I'm having good luck with it although cleaning the soot and controlling the dust and smell inside sucks. I'm sure it'll be better outside then inside.
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I have a NCB-250 coal unit.
Bit coal in large is high in sulfur. I use anthrocite, which is more expansive but much higher BTU and no smell at all.
I have 4500sqft new well insulated house, with DHW; last year that was the worst winter in 50 years, I used
2 cords of wood, and 5.5 ton anthracite to keep the house at 75F.
I used to heat with coal inside, it is very dirty. You will like the outdoor unit, but you need shaker grates and a boiler made for coal burning.
Sometimes, I just don't have time and energy to split and haul 10 cords of wood. If I burned wood alone, I don't think 10 cords would be enough for me.
5 ton for $325 is probably very high in sulfur. KY low sulfur coal is about $100-120 / ton. I pay about the same for anthracite, but it's a special deal.
Where do you get your anthracite for the special deal?
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Heatmaster has good shaker grates, most everyone doesn't burn coal only even though they advertise they can. Most just seem to pile on top. I have spent a lot of time on nepacrossroads.com learning how to burn coal, if I could afford hard coal I would burn it. But for $10 for a 50 pound sack around here i would just buy pro pain. The soft coal I burn is good stuff for bituminous, I get it directly from a mine so it's cheaper. I don't mind the stink of the smoke outside, can't smell it from inside the house, what' I do mind is the dirt dust stink and cold or too Hott from being inside. That's why I'm gettin a owb
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I get mine for $100 per cord in log length form and that is in New Hampshire. Around here Green wood split and delivered is $200-$250 per cord. Seasoned delivered is $250-$350 per cord. It all depends on where you live.
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I can get semi loads of good logs 95% red oak, then some hickory an white oak, delivered free for $32 a ton. I have got 14-15 ton before and ends up costing around $500 give or take $40. Can anyone give me a guess of how many cords 15 ton of green oak is? Just trying to figure a rough guess of how many cords of wood I'm getting from a semi load
Ive never heard nor do i know anyone that sells wood by the ton..All sold by the truck load or by the cord.. If that was case..Id want maple or ash etc ..Oak is heavy!
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I can get semi loads of good logs 95% red oak, then some hickory an white oak, delivered free for $32 a ton. I have got 14-15 ton before and ends up costing around $500 give or take $40. Can anyone give me a guess of how many cords 15 ton of green oak is? Just trying to figure a rough guess of how many cords of wood I'm getting from a semi load
Ive never heard nor do i know anyone that sells wood by the ton..All sold by the truck load or by the cord.. If that was case..Id want maple or ash etc ..Oak is heavy!
And you are buying water since all that wood is green.
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I can get semi loads of good logs 95% red oak, then some hickory an white oak, delivered free for $32 a ton. I have got 14-15 ton before and ends up costing around $500 give or take $40. Can anyone give me a guess of how many cords 15 ton of green oak is? Just trying to figure a rough guess of how many cords of wood I'm getting from a semi load
Ive never heard nor do i know anyone that sells wood by the ton..All sold by the truck load or by the cord.. If that was case..Id want maple or ash etc ..Oak is heavy!
And you are buying water since all that wood is green.
green wood= dry wood=
ash 4200 pounds per cord 3200
oak 5000 3500
hickory 5000 3800
soft maple 4000 2600
white elm 4400 2800
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My friend brings it from PA. I do some favors for him, and he gets me 5 ton/year free delivery.
One of the PA anth mines have a day a year when you can get anthrocite $120-150 I think. 20ton min for delivery or <20 ton pick up only.
I love to mix anthrocite with wood. There is virtually no smoke with anthrocite and lots of BTU. 5 ton lasts me 6 months with 2-3 cords of wood. For a 4500sqft house it is a great deal for me. My back is not what it used to be for splitting 10-15 cords each year, plus the wear and tear on the saw, truck, etc. I spend about $500 on the coal per year. Not bad for 6 months of heating + DHW.
Look at the PA mines if you are close.
KY coal also pretty good, and cheaper. Burns like wood thou.
Anthrocite glows like red melted glass, with blue flames. Very very very hot.
I have a NCB-250 coal unit.
Bit coal in large is high in sulfur. I use anthrocite, which is more expansive but much higher BTU and no smell at all.
I have 4500sqft new well insulated house, with DHW; last year that was the worst winter in 50 years, I used
2 cords of wood, and 5.5 ton anthracite to keep the house at 75F.
I used to heat with coal inside, it is very dirty. You will like the outdoor unit, but you need shaker grates and a boiler made for coal burning.
Sometimes, I just don't have time and energy to split and haul 10 cords of wood. If I burned wood alone, I don't think 10 cords would be enough for me.
5 ton for $325 is probably very high in sulfur. KY low sulfur coal is about $100-120 / ton. I pay about the same for anthracite, but it's a special deal.
Where do you get your anthracite for the special deal?
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My friend brings it from PA. I do some favors for him, and he gets me 5 ton/year free delivery.
One of the PA anth mines have a day a year when you can get anthrocite $120-150 I think. 20ton min for delivery or <20 ton pick up only.
I love to mix anthrocite with wood. There is virtually no smoke with anthrocite and lots of BTU. 5 ton lasts me 6 months with 2-3 cords of wood. For a 4500sqft house it is a great deal for me. My back is not what it used to be for splitting 10-15 cords each year, plus the wear and tear on the saw, truck, etc. I spend about $500 on the coal per year. Not bad for 6 months of heating + DHW.
Look at the PA mines if you are close.
KY coal also pretty good, and cheaper. Burns like wood thou.
Anthrocite glows like red melted glass, with blue flames. Very very very hot.
I have been using anthracite mixed for the last year or so. I agree, once dialed in its a great addition to the wood. The last 3 months I have been using almost all coal. Seems to be working great!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTfBwfCPg7c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTfBwfCPg7c)
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rest easy u guys > this is what u would call pine... in the lower 48...... SPLIT DRY SPRUCE 300.00 A CORD, DELIVERD
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Yeap, I could not be happier. I have about 6 cords split. It will last me 2-3 years.
My friend brings it from PA. I do some favors for him, and he gets me 5 ton/year free delivery.
One of the PA anth mines have a day a year when you can get anthrocite $120-150 I think. 20ton min for delivery or <20 ton pick up only.
I love to mix anthrocite with wood. There is virtually no smoke with anthrocite and lots of BTU. 5 ton lasts me 6 months with 2-3 cords of wood. For a 4500sqft house it is a great deal for me. My back is not what it used to be for splitting 10-15 cords each year, plus the wear and tear on the saw, truck, etc. I spend about $500 on the coal per year. Not bad for 6 months of heating + DHW.
Look at the PA mines if you are close.
KY coal also pretty good, and cheaper. Burns like wood thou.
Anthrocite glows like red melted glass, with blue flames. Very very very hot.
I have been using anthracite mixed for the last year or so. I agree, once dialed in its a great addition to the wood. The last 3 months I have been using almost all coal. Seems to be working great!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTfBwfCPg7c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTfBwfCPg7c)
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Are you heating a Closet?
Yeap, I could not be happier. I have about 6 cords split. It will last me 2-3 years.
My friend brings it from PA. I do some favors for him, and he gets me 5 ton/year free delivery.
One of the PA anth mines have a day a year when you can get anthrocite $120-150 I think. 20ton min for delivery or <20 ton pick up only.
I love to mix anthrocite with wood. There is virtually no smoke with anthrocite and lots of BTU. 5 ton lasts me 6 months with 2-3 cords of wood. For a 4500sqft house it is a great deal for me. My back is not what it used to be for splitting 10-15 cords each year, plus the wear and tear on the saw, truck, etc. I spend about $500 on the coal per year. Not bad for 6 months of heating + DHW.
Look at the PA mines if you are close.
KY coal also pretty good, and cheaper. Burns like wood thou.
Anthrocite glows like red melted glass, with blue flames. Very very very hot.
I have been using anthracite mixed for the last year or so. I agree, once dialed in its a great addition to the wood. The last 3 months I have been using almost all coal. Seems to be working great!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTfBwfCPg7c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTfBwfCPg7c)
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a 4500 sqft closet
Are you heating a Closet?
Yeap, I could not be happier. I have about 6 cords split. It will last me 2-3 years.
My friend brings it from PA. I do some favors for him, and he gets me 5 ton/year free delivery.
One of the PA anth mines have a day a year when you can get anthrocite $120-150 I think. 20ton min for delivery or <20 ton pick up only.
I love to mix anthrocite with wood. There is virtually no smoke with anthrocite and lots of BTU. 5 ton lasts me 6 months with 2-3 cords of wood. For a 4500sqft house it is a great deal for me. My back is not what it used to be for splitting 10-15 cords each year, plus the wear and tear on the saw, truck, etc. I spend about $500 on the coal per year. Not bad for 6 months of heating + DHW.
Look at the PA mines if you are close.
KY coal also pretty good, and cheaper. Burns like wood thou.
Anthrocite glows like red melted glass, with blue flames. Very very very hot.
I have been using anthracite mixed for the last year or so. I agree, once dialed in its a great addition to the wood. The last 3 months I have been using almost all coal. Seems to be working great!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTfBwfCPg7c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTfBwfCPg7c)
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Sorry,
I didn't read that you were heating with Coal Also...
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Is your house insulated with spray foam? I'm heating 4200 sq ft no coal I'd say someware around 15-18 cords per yr with my last boiler maybe 13-15 this yr.. So how many cord were you burning before using coal?
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1 ton anthracite or good coal = 3-4 cords of wood
Usually the rule of thumb is 3-4 cords = 1 ton of anthracite or very good quality coal.
So, I burn 5 ton coal, and 2 cords of wood; that's about 18 cords of wood. That about right, because when I burn wood only (hardly ever now) I will go through 2-3 cords probably a month. OMG, that is waaaaaay too much for my back. 15-18 cords I can't handle that.
I split 2 cords for this year, and so far I only used may be 1/8 cord, and less than a ton of coal.
My house is very well insulated; if the fire burns down at 8am, my house is still in the high 60s by 6pm as long as the kids don't leave the doors all open.
My house has stucco sidings and 6 inch thick walls, with ton of insulations. I also put bricks and insulations around the boiler because it looses a lot of heat outside.
I love splitting wood, but I can't handle the time, the wear and tear on the chain saw, truck, trailer, tractor from dealing with 15-18 cords of wood. Also, with my coal and wood mix, I do not get much creosote. Coal is so hot, it just keeps burning off.
I hope this helps.
Oh, I do a modification to the boiler; it's the way we did it in Europe years ago. I put a steel plate in front of the stack inside the fire chamber kind of like a fire back, to reflect the heat back into the fire chamber, and to reduce the heat and flames going out the chimney.
It's just a rectangle steel place resting on the firebricks and leaning against the stack inside the fire chamber. It's easy to remove and clean behind it.
I do also have a 20 foot double insulated chimney on my boiler, because I have very tall trees around us and I needed to move the smoke up. It works great. My boiler is 120 feet from the house.
Is your house insulated with spray foam? I'm heating 4200 sq ft no coal I'd say someware around 15-18 cords per yr with my last boiler maybe 13-15 this yr.. So how many cord were you burning before using coal?
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That's sounds a lot easier than splitting a whole bunch of wood :thumbup: I hear ya on the wear and tear on the body and equipment not to mention the endless amount of time involved seems like it's never enough..
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yes; and don't get me wrong I love working outside stacking wood. But more like 2-3 cords is enough for me. 12-15 cords a winter is more like Russian forced labor ;)
I could not be happier with my wood and coal set up. This way I have the best of both world. It's been -30F here. I still got about 28hrs of burn time on one load. Plus I am sitting in a house that is 74F, and I'm almost hot. I was at a friends house, they keep it at 62-64F because they use propane and already pay $4000 per winter. 62F good lord, I might as well sleep in my car :)
Keep warm.
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JD,
Do you mix wood and coal by shoveling in coal on the wood.
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That's what happend to me 8 yrs ago before I bought my first OWB my propane bill was $7200 for that heating season and the house was always cold now 74-76 deg walking around in shorts and tee shirt wife and kid happy as pig in s@&$)(; ... My brother has natural gas but keeps his house at 62 I freeze me arzz.. Off when I'm there
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Actually its not quite that easy. There is a system if you want it to work right.
First I have a coal NCB-250 Coal unit. For coal you need a shaker grate, and the air must come from under the coal bead. You also need a lot of fire bricks or the boiler will melt, warp.
You shake the grate twice a day to get rid of the cold ash, but don't shake it too much. Just 5 sec.
I put two logs on the side on hot red coals and load in the middle with new coal. If you just load coal you can suffocate the coal bed and the fire will go out.
The burning logs on the side will get the fire going strong and will leave an air hole for the new coal to ignite. And I put a log on top of the new coal load. So three logs total per day.
If the coal bed is weak because I haven;t loaded it for 2 days or so, I load it all wood with two shovels of coal in one corner. Than I load all coal once its burnt down 80%.
You also have to change the settings. Coal is like a train. Once it gets going when the fan turns off it will keep going and over heat. So you need to keep the diff as tight as can be. 3-5.
Mine is 175/5diff/pump on high. With that I get water temp 180/175.
If your setting are 185/12diff, you will get water temp 200/165 from the over shoot, and the coal needs more time to get going so the temp will keep dropping.
If you don't have a shaker grate, you can still add some coal, but I would add fire bricks if possible. I would add wood 60% on the boiler, than a few shovels of coal in the center, than wood. Once the coal is ignited just keep adding a little bit.
It will increase your hot ash time and add a lot of BTUs!!!.
So, if you go out of town and your wood is all our, the coal will still be hot. It's not uncommon that I go out of town for 3-4 days, and when I get back the water is still 155F, and I just throw wood on the ash and the fire is raging in 20 min.
Look at centrilia, PA. Coal fire still burning underground with hardly any oxygen for years.
When it's warmer 20+ I use more wood. If the windchill is under 20F I use the 3 logs and 90%coal combo. At -30F like it has been, wood burns like cardboard, and coal shines in performance. Just get high quality coal. The poor coal has a lot of sulfur and it smells awful. I use anthrocite, no smell at all and no smoke at all. It's expensive, but it;s worth it. I still spend less than the wear and tear in the chain saw, and car, etc. I do split about 2-3 cords a winter. I spend about $500 I think a year., but my house is very big, and we keep it 74+, but little use on chain saw, trailer and truck splitter.
I think this set up works when you are older, or too busy to handle 12-15 cords. You also do not need an elaborate set up for coal. Just dump it next to the boiler on concrete, and a tarp to cover. I don't even use a tarp. I just novel it in with snow on it.
the coal ash you can use under your fence wire, or on ice. The week will not grow arround the fence wire, and the ice will not be slippery and you done;t have to deal with the nastiness of salt.
JD,
Do you mix wood and coal by shoveling in coal on the wood.
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I've been on the wood coal thing the pass two weeks, 1/3 coal to 2/3 wood.. I don't split a thing..coal Makes the big logs burn.
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yeap; my logs are huge, so I only split them so I can lift them.
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JD farmer, Great info for burning coal--I wonder if you would advise approx how many lbs do you approximate 1 shoval of the coal is? Also are you burning oak hardwood or junk low BTU wood? Thank you.
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how many lb per shovel? hmm, not sure. It's a pretty large shovel, not the standard home depot one. It's an amish coal shovel. Probably holds 2.5 times the amount of coal as a regular HD shovel would. I would say one bag of coal would be about 3 shovels. I think 1 bag is 40lb. So, I would say I loan about 1.5 bags, 60 lb per day. If I divide how much I used last year around 5 ton, per 5 months of heating; I get around 65 lbs. So, there you go. 65lb per day, that is 1.5 bags a day.
As for wood. It's mostly ash, some oak, some maple. What ever is on the side of the road after the power co goes through. I only split it so I can lift it. I use about 3 pretty good size pieces of wood a day.
I hope this helps.
PS; do not buy coal by bag!!!!! it's hard to use and ridiculously expensive. Market price for anthracite is $220/ton bulk, and $330 bagged.
If you buy it in PA from the mine, it's $120. Or they deliver it but min order is 30 ton. There is 1 customer day a year some mines have when it's $120 per ton, and 5 ton max. That is what I am on.
Ky low sulfur coal is $215/ton around here, and it is nowhere near the quality of anthracite.
If you can get anthracite buy it till you can.
A certain anonymous second term president; who's middle name is the same as the name of the Former Iraqi dictator's last name would love to eliminate "dirty" coal and OWBs, and have the entire country switch to "clean" natural gas mined by fracking with millions of gallons of acid injected into the ground that oozes out everywhere for centuries to come poisoning ground and natural water, and humans and animals. Clean air act. I guess it is Too bad that there is no clean ground act.
Just wait till power plants switch to natural gas from coal. Electricity will be more expensive than duck liver.
Anyway, calm down JD, calm down. :)
I hope this helps.
JD farmer, Great info for burning coal--I wonder if you would advise approx how many lbs do you approximate 1 shoval of the coal is? Also are you burning oak hardwood or junk low BTU wood? Thank you.
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JD Thanks for your reply. I agree whole heartly with that last paragraph you wrote---I live in Va country and am very concerned in the damage that is happening to my well water from all this fracking. Where do you live?
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Northern Ohio farm. Francking land is not far.
I was just in Germany, where the Europeans as so concerned about switching to clean heat and electric. So, I was sitting on the plane and it so happened that the system designer and manager for the northern Germany power grid was sitting next to me. So we were talking, I guess the German government spent millions switching and subsidizing everyone over there to change to solar power and gas heat. Now 100% natural gas comes from the Russians, why are cutting supply because that is what they do time to time. As for electric an average german house hold 10 years ago paid E300 for power. Now that it is all solar, last year's stats were E287 per house hold. So, he said why do you think that it only dropped E13? That's right taxes. To pay for all the government subsidies to switching to solar, the state had to apply massive taxes to everyone. So, now even if you are not using power, you have to pay E190 per month of taxes.
Also, now they have windmills for power out at sea and on land. Because there is such a fluctuation in wind speed, their power grids are getting overloaded 3-6 times a month he said. They have been giving free power to many factories at night so they can take the load off of the lines. So, now they spent all this money to go green, and now they have to give power away for free. And in return the companies since they get power for free at night (some at least) are now have more night shifts so now workers have to work 10pm-6am.
How screwed up is that? And that is the model country for some governments.
Now, I was in Russia last year too. I go yearly for charity work at an orphanage. They heat all the buildings for the orphanage with boilers. They have an awesome system. They have wood, coal, propane, oil boilers all next to each other separated by brick walls. They burn what ever is cheaper. No taxes, no permits, no nothing. They heat the entire orphanage for 300 kids for about $80 per month.
I grew up with Russian "peace" time boilers in Eastern Europa. They were from before WWII; peace time. They are still running them over there.
I modified my NCB250 coal according to the set up I am used to. I get at least 20% more out of my boiler, but I had to make some modification to the insulation and some to the fire box. I think the boilers sold now days are good, but lot of them leak a lot of heat.
I use the laser temp gun to check for leaks and insulate it. I put fire bricks on the top of the boiler for insulation, and I have a steal place in front of the stack inside the fire box so less heat runs out the stack. Works pretty good for me.
Most Russian boilers have a double door which I like. The inside had fire brick lining, and another insulated one outside of that. I like that set up, because no creosote builds up around the seal of the outside door that messes up the seal. Plus even more heat stays in with double doors. My NCB door is insulted I guess, but it still reads 95F on the outside. It could be better I think, so I am adding a second door this spring inside the fire box, like I am used to. NCB also stands on legs and looses a ton of heat to the ground. I put bricks all around the boiler, and I noticed last year when I did that that when the boiler is in idle even in -25F wind chill, the water temp stays the same for hours. I am 130 yards from the house, 9 feet deep lines. Before I had the bricks in idle my boiler temp dropped about 1F every 20 min in -25F.
Anyway, that's what I have as for coal and wood combo. Good luck with it.
Oh I forgot, western Europeans got rid of all their fireplaces when it all went green. Guess what is one of the biggest export items in Russia and Scandinavia right now to Western Europe? That's right. Fireplaces and stoves. People want to go back to burning wood and coal, which is against our clean air act. Messed up ,my friend.
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"European companies are clearcutting North Carolina forests in order to make wood pellets to send back home as heating fuel "
Would you believe European companies are getting carbon credits for burning America’s forests?
Reading in the Wall Street Journal this morning about how European companies are clearcutting North Carolina forests in order to make wood pellets to send back home as heating fuel reminded me of just how insane the global green movement has become.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/05/28/why-burning-american-forests-to-heat-european-homes-is-as-crazy-as-it-sounds/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/05/28/why-burning-american-forests-to-heat-european-homes-is-as-crazy-as-it-sounds/)
Here’s the cost ranking of basic heating fuels to the average residential customer in the United States, as determined by EIA, per million Britsh Thermal Units of energy content (for reference, 1 Btu is about as much heat produced by burning a single wooden match).
Natural Gas: $7.20 per mmBtu
Coal (Anthracite): $8 per mmBtu
Wood: $9.10 per mmBtu
Wood pellets: $15.20 per mmBtu
Propane: $26.70
Fuel Oil: $29 per mmBtu
Kerosene: $32.70 per mmBtu
Electricity: $34.30 per mmBtu
Those figures were just for the cost of getting the raw fuel to your home and show that natural gas is far and away the most cost effective energy source. But it’s not enough to just look at the cost of the raw fuel. To have a legitimate comparison we have to take into account the efficiencies of the furnaces and boilers that turn the fuel into heat.
The most efficient (approaching 100%) are electric baseboard heaters and unvented natural gas burners. The lowest efficiencies are found in wood-burning stoves — 63% for a non-catalytic heater, 72% for a catalytic heater and 78% for a pellet stove. Coal-burning furances have a 75% efficiency. Heater efficiency is comparable to fuel efficiency in a car. All things equal, you’d be better off paying $5 a gallon to drive a car that got 25 mpg versus paying $2.50 a gallon to fill a car that only got 10 mpg.
So taking into account furnace efficiencies, here’s the ranking of heating sources by what the average American pays to actually get the heat into your house:
Natural gas: $8.80 per mmBtu
Coal: $10.70 per mmBtu
Wood (catalytic heater): $12.60 per mmBtu
Wood (pellet stove): $19.40 per mmBtu
Propane: $34.20 per mmBtu
Electricity: $34.50 per mmBtu
Fuel Oil: $37.10 per mmBtu
Kerosene: $40.80 per mmBtu
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"U.S. wood pellet exports double in 2013 in response to growing European demand."
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=16391 (http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=16391)
Exporting wood 4500mi away, what a ridicules world. It's hardly worth hauling wood from two counties over now we are exporting wood to Europe because they messed up their world for green energy, and they can't get along with Russia who they rely on 100% for natural gas.
I bet, the more we export the more expensive and scarce wood will be here. Now, sure, there is a lot of it, but export doubled in 1 year, and we are closing coal mines. Not a promising combination.
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that is some sad chit............. :bash:
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GREAT DISCUSSION!!!!! One factor I don't see represented on the list is independence, to me this is more important than any other factor, another factor would be gassers, most are truly in the 80% + range for efficiency, why is that not listed?
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JDFarmer, just started to burn only coal today. Like the ideal to put coal down the center and small amount of wood on the sides. Guess Ill see how that works.
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Good point Jim. I am not sure why they didn't list gases. I think they were going back a few years to survey price, and how much it cost to get BTU from different source. There is probably a great range in price in different part of the country. Further from Texas the higher the price for propane. Here it was almost $5 last winter.
I think the fact the Europeans are now buying american wood to heat with wood palete, after spending millions getting rid of wood and coal burners and coal power plants, just prove to you how stupid it is not to use natural resource abundant on your back yard.
Also, proves to you what happens with government programs and regulations. After you spend millions you go back the way things were years ago.
Let's not do that in the US please and thank you.
I think we have to be careful exporting wood to a continent of 742Million people that is the double of the US. It takes like 80 years to grow an oak tree. Even black locus 10 years or so. Next thing we wake up to is that there is a wood shortage and wood tax, and you need wood cutting, wood storing, and wood handling tax. These taxes do exist in Europa. That is why it's cheaper for them to import from the US. Entire Scandinavia is one large forest, yet it doesn't seem to be economical for them to harvest wood due to 28% sales tax. Germany has 26% sales tax plus all other taxes. I was just there; I saw a cord of wood for $450-550!!! on the country side in many places.
Gosh I'd be a millionaire living in the woods :)
With the gases, the cost of heating will drastically come down I bet. Especially if we can insulate the boilers even more.
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JD, Great info in your recent post on your stove ideas to improve the heat loss. I have a MF E Heatmaster and the roof is slanted so I could not put fire brick on it to help with the heat loss. I just came in after checking the stove which also has legs that are about 1 Ft off the cement slab it stands on---I dont have a laser temp gauge but I put my hand under the bottom and sure enough it was hot enough that you would'nt want to keep it their for extended time. Got to be losing heat. Regarding the steel plate in the fire box ---this stove has the triple by-pass before the smoke exit's the chimney so I think that is working similiar to your plate idea? I am strongly thinking that I would like to put the bricks around the bottom as you suggest. Are those bricks Fire bricks or just building blocks that you could buy at Home Depot? I just had the thought if you could post a picture of how you have yours set-up? Thank you. Don
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I'll pos the pics tonight. My boiler's roof is slanted as well (little bit less than 45 degrees), but that doesn't stop me from putting fire bricks on the top. Actually, I just put a wood board at the edge of the roof. It is just resting on the top of the boiler at the edge. There are screws that are holding the metal sheet that is covering the boiler. The screw stick out about 1/3 inch and it's enough to hold the board. The board supports the fire bricks from sliding down. It put a heavier brink on top of the board that holds the roof fire bricks just to weight it down into the roof and the screws holding it. That's it. It's been like that for 2 years they haven't moved.
Now as for the bottom; I just used regular landscaping bricks. No mortar I just stacked the bricks in two rows covering the openings under the boiler, all the way around. I used to have snow melt around the legs and the entire boiler bottom in a 1- 2 foot radius, no it's iced up to the bricks. So, it's insulating very well. In the summer I leave some openings so it stays dry. In the winter it is dry from the heat.
How do I post pics? It won't let me post it, it says account if full or something.
I used firebricks on the top because I had some extras and they are lighter and they insulate very well. They are also flat with a gritty surface to they do grab the sheet metal pretty well. I have not had any slide off. The wood board works well. You could use silicone chalking too. Just a spot on the middle of the brick. Silicon mortar. I bought a temp gun at home depot for $50. It's well worth it. You can find all the heat leaks in a half hour.
It's a no brad whatever, like this; works great.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/General-Tools-40-to-1076-Fahrenheit-Infrared-Thermometer-with-Pouch-IRT657/202801066?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cBase&gclid=CNG445a6lMMCFQEGaQodWSYAsQ&gclsrc=aw.ds (http://www.homedepot.com/p/General-Tools-40-to-1076-Fahrenheit-Infrared-Thermometer-with-Pouch-IRT657/202801066?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cBase&gclid=CNG445a6lMMCFQEGaQodWSYAsQ&gclsrc=aw.ds)
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Take a look at this...http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=4882.msg39550#msg39550 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=4882.msg39550#msg39550)