Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: WoodHeatIrritatesMyWife on January 03, 2015, 08:53:21 AM
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I'm weighing the options.
Location: Eastern Ontario.
1800 sq ft 1.5 story home.
Masonry walls (blocks of stone, not brick), roughly 2.5 feet thick (from outside to inside lathe and plaster).
Insulation in the ceiling.
Windows are 12 years, double pane.
Fieldstone foundation, drafty.
Currently heating with oil (forced air).
I am looking for an in-expensive (not cheap) way of heating with wood, where I don't need to enter the crawlspace to feed the beast
I am looking for something that has decent length burns (I hope 12 hrs), non-stainless steel(I like the idea of simple welds if crap breaks down), that doesn't require me to push half a forest a year into it and finally,
Videos which just blow my mind as "Holy crap, that's horrible":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Mgn2po54c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Mgn2po54c) (6:25->6:28 also proves why she should be wearing steel toes if she isn't).
Right now, I'm considering an indoor wood boiler system (with thermal storage).
I'm still considering a PSG Caddy type system, even though it breaks my "not wanting to enter the crawlspace". Although, this is unlikely.
What are you thoughts on what I am missing on looking for a system that could be mainly a heat exchanger in the forced air and probably a rad or two in the future?
Thanks!
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I'll let some of the experts answer the more technical aspects of this and cost but some clear advantages of a OWB over a indoor unit:
1: Dirt, bugs, and ash all stay outside where they belong.
2: With a OWB you don't need near as well seasoned wood as you do with an indoor unit, chimney fires are completely eliminated with a OWB.
3: Size it accordingly and with a OWB you could heat additional out buildings at a later date while a indoor unit may not have the capacity.
4: Not sure about Canada but your home insurance should be lower with a OWB compared to an indoor unit.
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2: With a OWB you don't need near as well seasoned wood as you do with an indoor unit, chimney fires are completely eliminated with a OWB.
Chimney fires are a concern for sure, but I'm a paranoid person. If I can get the chimney outside and up the wall, I would likely
watch the creosote like a hawk and clean it frequently. This isn't trying to say one is better than the other, just that because I am aware of a possibility of a fire, I would certainly try to reduce the chances of it for sure.
3: Size it accordingly and with a OWB you could heat additional out buildings at a later date while a indoor unit may not have the capacity.
Yeah, I'm having a hard time sizing it. The house for sure, I see a heat exchanger in the Forced Air, maybe a rad or two throughout the house (kitchen, bathroom). The main floor in exposed in the ceiling of the crawlspace, so radiant heat is an option for sure, other possibilities I may size for is a modine in the crawlspace to keep it warm and one in a mini-uninsulated space outside (maybe).
4: Not sure about Canada but your home insurance should be lower with a OWB compared to an indoor unit.
50' away, thee wouldn't be a problem with insurance.
Thanks.
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That's one crazy chick!
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What other reasons do you need besides mess and fire outside? Longer burn times than a wood stove, better indoor air quality.
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What other reasons do you need besides mess and fire outside? Longer burn times than a wood stove, better indoor air quality.
For clarity, I'm not looking at a wood stove, I'm looking at a Wood Boiler (or if it makes more sense, a wood furnace, which just doesn't really excite me).
Right now, my biggest problem with OWB's would be the potential smoke.
Also, I'm not only looking at an indoor wood boiler in the house, I have 2 sheds less than 80' away that I could stuff one into.
I don't want to turn into an angry Albertan, storming out in the middle of the night, filming a video about how much wood I go through, with a lack of sleep and such.
One thing I don't understand is, if I were only to put in a boiler system (indoor/outdoor) and a heat exchange in the forced air furnace, how effective would that be?
There is a local heating company who consistently tells me I'm not going to be happy with the heat output of a forced air with a heat exchanger at the registers. So, this has me somewhat confused. Can someone heat their house with a boiler with just a heat exchange in the FAF?
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I had been heating my house for 15 years with an forced air wood furnace. This is my first winter with my owb and a water to air hx installed in my existing duct work. It heats my house just as easily and nicely as the old system did. I would not go back to lugging wood into my basement and I definitely don't miss the mess that went along with it. See if you can find someone local with the setup you are looking at to see if it's the right thing for you
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What other reasons do you need besides mess and fire outside? Longer burn times than a wood stove, better indoor air quality.
Right now, my biggest problem with OWB's would be the potential smoke.
Put the stove downwind 50 ft from the house and no problem .
Ares is 30 feet away and the west wind here in central N. Ontario takes the smoke away.
Best thing we ever did was install this system OWB to a fanforced furnace.
We save $2-3k a winter on propane for a 1600 ft bungalo.
And we can put wood in it [W.4400] once or twice a day at -10/20 C
Go for it!! :thumbup:
KK
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What other reasons do you need besides mess and fire outside? Longer burn times than a wood stove, better indoor air quality.
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One thing I don't understand is, if I were only to put in a boiler system (indoor/outdoor) and a heat exchange in the forced air furnace, how effective would that be?
There is a local heating company who consistently tells me I'm not going to be happy with the heat output of a forced air with a heat exchanger at the registers. So, this has me somewhat confused. Can someone heat their house with a boiler with just a heat exchange in the FAF?
Bet this company doesn't sell OWB,S
KK
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Yes, you can heat your house with a water/air heat exchanger in your ductwork and be VERY happy. The air temp coming out of the vents is probably going to be warmer than the oil furnace's hot air would be too.
If I had a nice outbuilding for it, I'd have an indoor unit in an outbuilding with all of my wood in it. I have no desire to drag the wood mess into my house, though. Trudging out in the snow to fill it kind of sucks sometimes, but you can do things to make it not so bad. My last house, I built a shelter over the front of the boiler so it wasn't snowy where I was loading wood and with the concrete pad I had there, it was also a solid clean place to stand. Sure, it gets cold out there, but I was getting 12+ hour burns so I only loaded 2x a day. No big deal for consistent 74* heat in a very drafty old home. Since I work 24-48 hours at a time, my wife had to load it often and she called the thing her best friend.
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I live in central Ontario in an older 1400 sq ft farm house. The current back up system is oil forced air. My outdoor wood boiler is home built. It is 165 feet from the house and 90 feet from the shop. There is an 18 x 18 inch heat exchanger in the plenum which transfers boiler heat through the house and another similar sized HX for the shop. Absolutely no problem keeping the house warm and comfortable, even at minus 30 or colder, and your local heating company which states otherwise is misinformed and incompetent. Can't comment on how much wood you will burn. I go through 6 to 7 bush cords per year. I believe people with gasifier models go through 6 cords or less, and those with the more conventional tank in a tank go through 9 cords but there is a lot of variability depending on outbuildings and heating domestic hot water.
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I replaced an indoor wood forced air unit that was plenty warm but made the inside covered with fine ash and smelled like smoke, not a nice fireplace smell. The Mrs hated then mess and smell so just installed a OWB about a month ago. I currently only have to feed it once a day with temps ranging from occasional mid 30's during the day 10F at night. I have a water to air he in my plenum and the wife is complaint its to warm if we go above 70-71 and with two teenage kids we did a 30 plate water to water he and I have yet to run out of hot water after back to back to back showers and laundry and dishes. We have minimal smoke during idle or full burn cycles just when the blower first kicks on.
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I live in central Ontario in an older 1400 sq ft farm house. The current back up system is oil forced air. My outdoor wood boiler is home built. It is 165 feet from the house and 90 feet from the shop. There is an 18 x 18 inch heat exchanger in the plenum which transfers boiler heat through the house and another similar sized HX for the shop. Absolutely no problem keeping the house warm and comfortable, even at minus 30 or colder, and your local heating company which states otherwise is misinformed and incompetent. Can't comment on how much wood you will burn. I go through 6 to 7 bush cords per year. I believe people with gasifier models go through 6 cords or less, and those with the more conventional tank in a tank go through 9 cords but there is a lot of variability depending on outbuildings and heating domestic hot water.
It's good to hear about someone who lives in central Ontario being able to heat with a HX only. I'm considering a gasification model which ever way I go, simply because of my proximity to the highway (about 500ft <-- that way) and a neighbour (about 350' ---> that way).
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I replaced an indoor wood forced air unit that was plenty warm but made the inside covered with fine ash and smelled like smoke, not a nice fireplace smell. The Mrs hated then mess and smell so just installed a OWB about a month ago. I currently only have to feed it once a day with temps ranging from occasional mid 30's during the day 10F at night. I have a water to air he in my plenum and the wife is complaint its to warm if we go above 70-71 and with two teenage kids we did a 30 plate water to water he and I have yet to run out of hot water after back to back to back showers and laundry and dishes. We have minimal smoke during idle or full burn cycles just when the blower first kicks on.
Yeah, I'm considering whatever way I go, to have a plate just for these very reasons :) THanks.
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I live in eastern Ontario. Running on my 8th winter with an outdoor boiler. Simply put if you want to live in canada and heat with wood there is no easier better way to do it. Our home is cleaner. Our family is healthier because we don't have wood stored indoors. We are not breathing in fine whits dust ash particles every time you have to take ashes out. We heat 2 homes and all our hot water. Our entire home is warm. Always!! Doesn't matter if get home at 6 in the evening or 3 in the morning stumbling drunk...house is warm!! Easy to put wood in anyone can fill the furnace for u n close the door. No need to have someone going in ur home and putting wood in playing with drafts etc.
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I live in eastern Ontario. Running on my 8th winter with an outdoor boiler. Simply put if you want to live in canada and heat with wood there is no easier better way to do it. Our home is cleaner. Our family is healthier because we don't have wood stored indoors. We are not breathing in fine whits dust ash particles every time you have to take ashes out. We heat 2 homes and all our hot water. Our entire home is warm. Always!! Doesn't matter if get home at 6 in the evening or 3 in the morning stumbling drunk...house is warm!! Easy to put wood in anyone can fill the furnace for u n close the door. No need to have someone going in ur home and putting wood in playing with drafts etc.
Two homes,, that's pretty wild, the neighbour and you just decide to split the difference?
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I bought the house next door. It's small place 580 square feet with full basement. Gutted and redid it all with new drywall and floors. Use it as a party shack & man cave.
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I was heating with propane for years until I was tired a paying over 7k a year in propane 8 yrs ago I bought my first OWB and here we are 8 yrs later I wouldn't change a thing (just maker a better choice of boiler in the beginning) but when I used propane my house was cold now it stays at 74 deg all the time wife and kid Luv it..
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I replaced an indoor wood forced air unit that was plenty warm but made the inside covered with fine ash and smelled like smoke, not a nice fireplace smell. The Mrs hated then mess and smell so just installed a OWB about a month ago. I currently only have to feed it once a day with temps ranging from occasional mid 30's during the day 10F at night. I have a water to air he in my plenum and the wife is complaint its to warm if we go above 70-71 and with two teenage kids we did a 30 plate water to water he and I have yet to run out of hot water after back to back to back showers and laundry and dishes. We have minimal smoke during idle or full burn cycles just when the blower first kicks on.
Yeah, I'm considering whatever way I go, to have a plate just for these very reasons :) THanks.
Read this other post about the hot water kafuffle at my place.
It wasn't plumbed right for a plate exchanger at the HWT.
I'm putting in a side arm W/W exchanger now.
One fella has a plate and side arm hooked up . :thumbup:
.http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=6915.0 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=6915.0)
kk
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Mr. Kommandokenny, I followed your ordeal and felt bad you missed out on all those hot showers and electric savings. My plate exchanger is hooked up on the outgoing side of the water heater before going through the water to air exchanger in the FAF. I have turned the gas off to my LP water heater and now the tank is just a cold water storage tank, it is a simple set up that seems to work well or me.
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Read this other post about the hot water kafuffle at my place.
It wasn't plumbed right for a plate exchanger at the HWT.
I'm putting in a side arm W/W exchanger now.
One fella has a plate and side arm hooked up . :thumbup:
.http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=6915.0 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=6915.0)
kk
I just read your plate problems. I'd be getting my money back on the plate 10, or a difference that on the 20. If you paid for it, you should have it, or the money back. I realize it's probably not very much, but still.
I also thought that the incoming hot water hit the plate first and then went to the furnace, so I don't understand those T's.
Either way, I hope you get it sorted out.
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Yes Its getting worked out,,,
the wood master installer up here must be reading these posts, as he offered to come out and switch my plate xchanger for a sidearm.
The plate exchanger will not work with my plumbing .
So redo the plumbing, or try the sidearm siphon.
May work, as we don't use a lot of hot water......but we do bath!! 8)
kk
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Domestic Water
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I think its got to do with the pex going into the bottom of the hot water heater. To me that is like a sidearm hookup. Cold water in, and out to the top of the hot water heater tank.
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I think its got to do with the pex going into the bottom of the hot water heater. To me that is like a sidearm hookup. Cold water in, and out to the top of the hot water heater tank.
Ya gotta read the whole thing .
I plumbed HWT two different ways as per.the forum
Neither worked.
It has to do with a 3/4 inch pex loop off the main 1 'line to the furnace.
Boiler water to the hwt is on a separate circuit and not moving fast enough to heat the domestic water in the exchanger.
My Guy had it hooked up like a siphon at first . I switched it and it was worse.
Anyway a side arm may siphon better and solve the problem, or I re plumb and use one continuous loop from the boiler to the appliances.
Again, take the time to read the whole 5 pages, as you won't get it by picking out a paragraph or two.
Cheers
KK