Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: cando attitude on January 29, 2015, 07:26:10 PM
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Spending time on the site with you folks has greatly increased my knowledge and awareness of other brands and collectively this group could easily list all the pros and cons of almost any make of boiler. The only problem is, if one were to ask who makes the best boiler....well, you can see where that discussion would go.
So here's the question: If you had to do it over again, (and you could not buy your current boiler) what boiler would you buy?
Please list current boiler and alternate boiler you would purchase (and why). And by the way, if you wouldn't buy your current boiler again and aren't afraid to admit it, in the interest of sharing with others, that would be great.
Me
Current boiler - Portage and Main BL 28-40
Alternate: Heat master (MF e series) I am curious about the long term advantages of stainless and I also like the double pass HX
In general, I am very happy with my BL. However, I would want to know more about the Heat master before I automatically purchased the BL again. I did not give heat master any consideration when I initially purchased.
Thanks, Cando
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I purchased a Global Hydronics boiler about 12 years ago and I am very pleased with it. I would probably go with a Heatmaster if I ever had to purchase another one. Does anyone know what happened to the Global Hydronics boilers as I think they are out of business?
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Instead of the 2840 I would get the 3444. Not unhappy with what I have, but, I wish I had a little more capacity.
Another brand? Central Boiler. Only because of having a local dealer. He is 3/4 hour away, P&M is 4 hours away.
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have a home built...if I bought Heatmor conventional or P&M gasser the old heatmor's in my area are all over 10 years old and still going strong and ifi had a P&M gasser I know Marti would help me get the kinks out of my learning curve
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I purchased a Global Hydronics boiler about 12 years ago and I am very pleased with it. I would probably go with a Heatmaster if I ever had to purchase another one. Does anyone know what happened to the Global Hydronics boilers as I think they are out of business?
Global Hydronics went out of business several years ago. The company still exists under another name manufacturing other products.
I would get another Portage and Main or maybe a Heatmaster. Both companies make a good product. I would have to think long and hard about whether to get another gasser or go with a BL from P&M or 5000e from Heatmaster. Gassers are nice, but conventionals are easier on the pocketbook and time spent on wood preparation.
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You guys are making me blush with my Heatmaster here! I would have to say I would like to try a P and M. I don't know enough about them to specify a model.
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Homebuilt on the first one, most likely I'd go with a Heatmaster G200, I like the P&M scotch boiler design, but for ease of cleaning it has to be hard to beat pulling a lever 5 times on the G200.
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I would guess that I don't need to say what I would do would I?
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Very happy with my Woodmaster 4400. If I had to do it again and couldn't go with another Woodmaster I would go with a Heatmaster MF5000 as I like the fact that it is stainless steel.
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I went with Hardy (H4) and love it. I am already on my third season. I know they aren't the boiler of choice on this forum. I was told by multiple people how much wood they burn. It worried me a lot but I can say now that is not true. I rarely put wood in mine more than once a day. There are way too many other variables to come to that conclusion anyway. My local dealer is really friendly and knowledgeable.
My first choice was Heatmaster but the local dealer was a backwoods hillbilly that knew nothing. I have no regrets putting the brakes on that guy.
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My first year with a boiler and so far I love my Heatmaster MF 5000 but if I had to choose another boiler I would try a P&M . 8)
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My first boiler was a Pacific Western, 150 gal. Did a great job, had it from 2001 thru the 2013 heating seasom. Very similar to the Burnrite models. I bought a CB 5036, works OK, had a couple run aways, but other then that not a bad stove. If I was to do it again, I probably would go with a Burnrite (only 15 miles away) or a Ridge wood stove.
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I am very happy with my Heatmor 200css and my dad is happy with his as well. I love the sand bottom and ash auger vs an ash pan. I'm not sure what other brand I'd buy, but Heatmaster doesn't look too shabby. I'd probably just get another Heatmor though.
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3rd boiler Central 6048 if I new what I know today this would have been my first choice from the beginning well built and easy to maintain its a beast.. :thumbup:
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aquatherm 275.... I never even did any research ... helped a buddy put one in in the early 92/93....I talked to him in 2010>>said it still works fine ...so on that alone I went and got one myself .
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Current Wood Boiler is a Wood Doctor 8000 Conventional. Being an old Wood Doctor Dealer and installer of many different brands, I would not even think about stainless. New Stainless stoves might be better nowadays, but failures with the old units that were stainless left a lot of people pissed of.
Front load stove if purchased from a Manufacturer, then it would be a Royal Wood Furnace. These are pressurized units and well built. http://www.royallfurnace.com/ (http://www.royallfurnace.com/)
Ideally, new stove would be a home built Conventional Top Loader, due to the ease of loading with my design ideas of exhaust recirculation and what not.
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Pretty much in the same boat here Cando, if I had looked at Heatmaster, that is the furnace that would be here instead of the P & M. This model is quoted for heating 15000 square feet, IN A PIG'S EYE!!!!!, maybe on a warmer spring day, but these nights we have been having here lately with minus 25 etc., I have to load late at night like say 10:00 p.m, load twice as much wood in as our old Empyre took for it to carry through to 6:00 a.m, that's an 8 hour burn time!!!!!!!! Smokeless, not hardly, even neighbors driving by have mentioned seeing big billows of smoke wafting out of it. I have to go to an extra effort with this furnace to clean out between the bricks, then when I blow my nose after I see how much ash I have breathed in from having to do it. This furnace should have had a larger water jacket, like say another 100 gallons like the Empyre had.
Funny how this topic just came up, my Father and I had just stated the other day, and again tonight the drawbacks to this furnace,
1-- Should have a light on the front for loading at night
2-- Needs a larger water jacket for heating two houses and cushioning the "blow" when it gets real cold
3---Needs a better way of cleaning the ash out between the brick {like the Heatmaster with their moveable grates like the old Duo Furnace)
4-- Could use another pass or two for the heat exchanger, with a door at the back for cleaning out the extra passes
If SCOTT is reading this, I am really interested in the new Heatmaster model, if the company would consider building a larger model to replace the 10000E, for 10000 square feet, with say around 280-300 gallons water jacket, I would be interested in being the guinea pig, running a demo unit
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Mr. Maple, I've found I go through less wood if I load less and keep the coals lower than the brick line. Not sure if that would help in your case. It seems to burn hotter faster if the firebricks are expose so the wood lasts a bit longer.
Judging by your name I presume you burn just maple?
My 3444 has been working quite well with 5200 sq ft and Dhw. I too wish it had a light. I didn't have time to get the light post buried before the ground froze.
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In my 5th season with a C.B. E2300 and very happy so far. For my next boiler, either a P&M 250 gasser or something with storage like a Garn.
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Mr maple,I have a Heatmaster 20,000e and I heat 8,000 sq ft. I wouldn't even want to think of heating 20,000 with it. I think all stove manufacturers kinda get their numbers from perfect world scenarios.
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:post: :post:
Love the feedback guys. If I were a boiler manufacturer watching this unfold through the window, I would be taking some
serious puck 'n notes right now. On numerous occasions, I've thought about designing my own stove as the next one.........probably will never happen but if someone ever asks, I'll give them an earful
Cando
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Just rolling into my third month with my Hawken HE-2100. I have had zero issues with it thus far and it is not a fuel hog so I have been loving it. If I had to go at it again, and couldn't buy a Hawken, I would seriously look at the HeatMaster or a Portage and Main, but I would want an draft style not a gasifier as I never know where the next load of wood will come from.
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Nice thread, really enjoy the comments.
I live in city with very close neighbors, so gasifier was only choice. Started with Nature's Comfort GT 220 for 3 year and just switched to Portage and Main 250 this year.
If I had to do it over, I'd pony up for the P&M from the start. Not because of wood savings, because I'm not really seeing that; but for the build quality, Better doors, easier to clean, gasifies quicker, simpler blower system.
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Agriffinjd, actually burn pretty much everything, mostly dead elm and ash right now, maple is for the syrup business that we are heavy into. I must admit I ignored all the red flags, talked to one owner who had the same Empyre, told me he wish he had it back over the new P & M, they of course blamed him for installing it wrong, saw another one in the summer pretty much full of ashes , now I see why as it such a hassle to get the ashes out from between the bricks when you have to load it so often to keep up with the demand.
Sluggo, what furnace did you have before? Our Empyre kept up quite well except for really cold windy days, just wanted to cut down on wood usage. I think maybe the 20000e would sit too long between cycling.
Cando,thinking the same thing, ideal furnace would have moveable grates like the Heatmaster , large water jacket like say 350 gallons for 8000 square feet of building,air injected above and below the fire for a complete burn, and more passes for the exhaust/smoke to travel through to use up more of the heat with easy access doors to clean out, say like the old cook stoves where you closed the damper after the fire was going to force the heat/smoke to travel down around the oven to get to the stack.
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Mr. Maple, as you know it is no longer my job to answer posts for P+M but as you seem very frustrated, I will step in and try, first perhaps overloading the stove with dead elm and ash is creating a lot of ash and coals as the lining cooks the wood much hotter than does a water jacket directly next to the fire, my suggestion would be to try some wood that has more density to it and allow that bed of coals to burn down to ash more, second, you are of course aware that the B-L series is available with shaker grates, perhaps that is what you should have ordered, third I would like to know whom that other owner is and perhaps he did do something wrong in his install, perhaps we could help him, how about inviting him to join this forum
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Hi Mr. Maple,
I have had interesting experiences burning elm in my optimizer 250. There is something in elm that makes the ashes by the nozzle turn hard and actually plug the nozzle between loads. And no, it wasn't wet elm doing this. When burning elm I found I had to scrape the area around the nozzle and break up or remove this hard ring around the nozzle, or it would plug and not run properly. The high heat around the nozzle seemed to fuse the ashes together. This doesn't happen with any other species of wood I've burned. I don't know the exact design of your furnace, but perhaps this is happening to you and it is building up and blocking something?
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Mr maple,I had a 10,000e but added 3000 sq ft of shed so I upgraded. I was heating 5,000 sq ft with the 10000e but thought 8000 sq ft would be pushing it. I would have loved to have tried the 10000 on it but the way things worked out that just wasn't possible.
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I've had some ash-crust blockage develop a few times. Not sure what type of wood caused it, I have all my wood mixed, and burn about every kind. I try to let mine burn down every couple days. Stir the coals with a scraper or hoe and let it burn for a couple hours before you load it again.
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I don't have a problem with scraping the ashes through the slots of my BL-2840. In fact its very easy way to get rid of the ashes compared to my old Woodmaster. No I am not knocking Woodmaster it gave me fourteen years of no propane bills. But the BL is easier and less dusty.
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I don't have a problem with scraping the ashes through the slots of my BL-2840. In fact its very easy way to get rid of the ashes compared to my old Woodmaster. No I am not knocking Woodmaster it gave me fourteen years of no propane bills. But the BL is easier and less dusty.
I agree if you overfill it constantly to try for 24 hour burns you will be producing to much coals and then you will be blocking all your grates.
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Update on furnace this morning, I avoided putting any wood in yesterday or last night, kept raking the coal bed and cleaning out between the bricks,got the ashes lowered substantially that I had most of the firebricks exposed , cut the blower down to half as was suggested by the dealer and P & M. I then loaded the furnace right to the top, anticipating a cold night. Temperature fell to -2 here last night, not overly cold, but cold enough anyway. Went to check on the furnace before bed as the kitec lines were not snapping hot like usual , fire was almost out as I did not have my large coal bed, and the wood had bridged for the first time this season. I opened the blower back up full and the fire took off raging like it should. As of this morning when my Father went out around 5:30, furnace was down to a few coals and temperature was down, looking for more fuel. I think this furnace is a good working unit, just not sized properly, the claims of heating 15000 square feet with it are totally &%#@#@%&. It would be fine for heating one large farmhouse, but for heating two farmhouses it does not have the reserve capacity to keep up. We went from 300 gallons with the old furnace to 160 with this one. I explained to my son this morning it would be like heating the bathroom sink to run water for taking a bath in the tub, maybe more efficient to heat the sink water, but when calling for a large amount of heat it uses up all the fuel to keep up with the demand.
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I think what you are not understanding is that the brick lining acts as your reserve instead of all that water, when you get the right formula of heat load and wood amount, you will really like the stove, as with any brick lined boiler, overloading it can be an issue as it cooks the wood to charcoal very quickly, I think you would be a prime candidate for the strap on aqua stat and timer that I typically put on the Optimizer 250, then run the boiler down more before refilling it, I got your E-Mail this AM and am simply not familiar enough with the line yet to give you an honest answer, can we give this one a bit longer and try to work through it a bit before you give up? Mr. Maple, you are in Vt aren't you, I am planning a trip there this next week if I am wrong on your location then perhaps I could visit on my way to the HeatMaster factory?
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What kind of sq footage are you heating now Mr maple?
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I have a Ridgewood 7500. I like the simplicity of the stove.
I am really happy with there costumer service.
But if I would buy a different stove it would be a BL series. I love the lining concept of the stoves. I would like to see one up close. Next would be a HeatMaster.
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Hi Slim, no I am actually in Ontario,Canada. P & M recommended I cut down on the air to make the wood last longer.Here is what I am finding.I wish I had gone with shaker grates, thought they were just for coal.If I don't clean out between the bricks regularly from underneath, I seem to get a longer burn?, but then the furnace builds up with ash as no ash whatsoever goes down through the brick then. I am avoiding putting wood in as much as possible, burning the stove right down, then take an old 4 tine heavy duty potato fork and come down on top of the brick, stirring up the ashes/coal bed. I have cut down the blower to about 1/2 slower to recover but I can get a 12 hour burn, however it is still taking over twice as much as the old Empyre to do that at night. I load it right up so no space is left in the furnace, any less and the houses/fire is cool by morning.There is also a lot of smoke, even on partial loads as there is not as much air traveling at the fire to burn more intense, more gases, an of course little to no air from underneath unless I take the time to regularly clean out between the bricks.
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Good morning Mr.Maple I have another thought as I have another customer who is experiencing a similar issue with short burn times and he is fairly local, He likes the stove but does not like the burn time, Erik if you see this Please comment as well. You both have very large heat loads, I know Eric's place has a LOT of wind, I would like for you both to try a barometric damper installed into your clean out tee, I am thinking perhaps that you both are having a considerable amount of heat pulled up your chimney by the wind when the blower is off, the purpose of the damper is to break that draft by allowing the chimney to pull the draft open. I will be E-Mailing Erik this AM, perhaps the two of you should talk? I will ask him to PM you his contact info.
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Another thing you can try is what I did. I was having such various burn times with the same mixed hardwood and live in a very windy location on some days, so I took a single pleated furnace air filter and taped it inside the back door over the louvers. Wind cannot force through as easy and have not had any issues since. It's also a nice little way to keep the fan cleaner.
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Great point Jwood, I never thought of it that way but yes I can see that helping! Where the heck is that Like button?
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:thumbup: there's a like button!
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I have a Shaver - - - and they are a very poor company to deal with. Not sure what I would go with next to do it all over again. Probably a Portage and Maine though from what I have read
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When was your boiler made Mr. Maple? Does your firebricks have spacers built in from the factory? If you don't have the spacers that could be why you can't get your ashes through.
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Have a wood doctor 10000 bought in 2008 and heat two buildings with it. Have had no problems but as i get older and New Hampshire gets colder wood sucks :), Have 40 cord of red pine and it burns great but the 0200 feedings is getting kind of old. When time comes to replace I am debating selling all the wood equipment(bobcat, kubota, splitters etc and moving some place warm
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Not to high jack the thread but I honestly don't think there is a stove out there that would heat 15,000 square feet mr maple. I would have to guess I have one of the biggest stoves available and I'm heating 8,000 sq. ft. That's all new construction also. I really wouldn't want to heat anymore than that as I enjoy sleeping thru the night.
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Not to high jack the thread but I honestly don't think there is a stove out there that would heat 15,000 square feet mr maple. I would have to guess I have one of the biggest stoves available and I'm heating 8,000 sq. ft. That's all new construction also. I really wouldn't want to heat anymore than that as I enjoy sleeping thru the night.
This one is supposed to do 20,000 sq. ft. so maybe it could handle 15,000: http://www.woodmaster.com/woodfurnaces_6500.php (http://www.woodmaster.com/woodfurnaces_6500.php)
I've also seen the ones (not in person) that are top loaders that have a huge amount of BTUs.
I imagine to heat that much successfully you'd need at least 1.25" pex in your insulated underground lines.
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Might as well buy the heatmor 800css commercial model 25,000 sq ft rated biggest stove I can think of.
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I just built a house and am in the first year of using a P&M BL 3444. I'm happy with it. If I had it to do over again and I had more money, I'd do the GARN, put it in the detached garage, and run a line to the house. It looks intriguing and I like the higher efficiency. I'd get the biggest one and superinsulate it to store more heat.
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That is a lot of water to heat on that woodmaster. It would chew up a lot of wood.
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I only wish I had gone the outdoor boiler route years ago.
Bob
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I here ya ...i.m near pizz that #1 fuel oil went from 4.06 a gal ,and no wood boiler on line yet ...the year (oct2014) I get her running it drops to 2.69 = longer payback
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I here ya ...i.m near pizz that #1 fuel oil went from 4.06 a gal ,and no wood boiler on line yet ...the year (oct2014) I get her running it drops to 2.69 = longer payback
Gotta love not having to worry about that anymore!
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I have a wood doctor, second largest they make, any other brand out there would be a far better company than wood doctor in my opinion, besides that what I don't like is there are no grates in mine, I'd definitely want shaker grates in anything I'd buy again. I'd also consider a royal boiler, which is pressurized and has shaker grates, but I'm also considering a top loader for my heat load, and volume of wood we go through.