Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: intensedrive on February 15, 2015, 10:55:56 PM
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I keep hearing stories of people giving boilers a bad name by burning their home garbage. I will admit I burn the occasional cardboard or paper grocery bags in the boiler. In a dire situation to get a fire going I burned some scrap 2x4's. I remember a guy that delivered wood to me last year. I had a hard time getting the boiler going on some green wood, and his wife was with him and mentioned how some good household trash would get the fire going. I looked at him, as he had a boiler too.. he said yes we burn all our trash in the boiler and sift out the metals and stuff that doesn't burn. Months later I had a few discussions with OWB owners and they admitted to burning tires at night and even using used motor oil on the logs. I'm shocked, I can't imagine wife telling me time to take out the trash and just dumping everything into the firebox. On occasions I will use a bit of vegetable oil on the fire to help, seems to burn very clean with almost no smoke.
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Yep it happens a lot and one of the reasons the EPA is involved now I'm sure we all know how the old burn barrels smelled while burning. The EPA has known about people burning trash in them, and with a gassifier that will not be possible.
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Maybe so why they are involved. I just don't understand, your not getting any real heat from burning a few bags of trash. I guess you might be saving on the trash bill.
Yep it happens a lot and one of the reasons the EPA is involved now I'm sure we all know how the old burn barrels smelled while burning. The EPA has known about people burning trash in them, and with a gassifier that will not be possible.
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I know of a guy that did that during the warmer season(late April/early May). Neighbors had their windows open and filled their house with soot/particles. EPA was on him like stink on ----. They paid him many visits and he felt like they were harassing him. You do stupid, you get stupid, end of story.
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I burn cardboard and paper (newspaper, magazines, even books on occasion). This morning my water temp was down to 138 and I raised it rather quickly with just the aforementioned products to about 175 before I loaded wood. I don't burn anything else that could be considered garbage though. I just recycle at home now instead of hauling all the paper products to the recycle bins.
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Another member told me a story of a guy who burned some trash in his stove. He had a fan go out or something and his dealer had to come out. He found an unburned piece of masking tape in the stove and voided his warranty. If you read your manual, it explicitly states to only burn coal or wood. You're playing with the proverbial "fire" burning trash in your stove.
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Guess what our electrical plant in western Wisconsin burns...garbage
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Most problems Ive seen with these boilers are wet wood, burning trash and other stuff your not suppose to put in there.
I know of a guy in CT that burns hay bales during the summer, but he is on a farm so there are no neighbors to piss off.
By running them properly they should not be a problem
But when you put in trash, tires etc anything can happen...
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I won't name names, but I do know of someone that burns offal in their boiler when they are butchering. But...they are out in the open with no one around and a family member built the boiler so no warranty to void.
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Guess what our electrical plant in western Wisconsin burns...garbage
Lots of electrical plants burn garbage the difference is they incinerate and have systems setup like bag houses that capture leftover particulates like mercury and other poisonous or harmful substance. Wood boilers will not incinerate and produces all kinds of poisonous smoke.
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I don't get it either... my father in law has a burn barrel that he uses "at night" .. Just because people have been doing this for years does not make it right.
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I don't see much wrong with burning cardboard, paper or scrap (non pressure treated) lumber. It crosses the line with plastics and it's nasty cousins.
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I don't see much wrong with burning cardboard, paper or scrap (non pressure treated) lumber. It crosses the line with plastics and it's nasty cousins.
It's tax time again, working on 2014 so 1994 can go buh bye, all that paper is heating the house atm. Been doing that forever, burning paper that is that I have no intention of somebody else getting their hands on, social security numbers, land lords social security numbers on 1099's, bank account numbers, savings account, IRA's etc. I'd rather burn it than risk placing it in the trash or recycle. I suppose when I goto a gasser I'll need to invest in a good crosscut paper shredder instead or go back to the "burn barrel".
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I don't see much wrong with burning cardboard, paper or scrap (non pressure treated) lumber. It crosses the line with plastics and it's nasty cousins.
It's tax time again, working on 2014 so 1994 can go buh bye, all that paper is heating the house atm. Been doing that forever, burning paper that is that I have no intention of somebody else getting their hands on, social security numbers, land lords social security numbers on 1099's, bank account numbers, savings account, IRA's etc. I'd rather burn it than risk placing it in the trash or recycle. I suppose when I goto a gasser I'll need to invest in a good crosscut paper shredder instead or go back to the "burn barrel".
Tax records as boiler fuel....excellent choice!
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I will load mine with cardboard on occasion to clean out the creosote.
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Guess what our electrical plant in western Wisconsin burns...garbage
The power plant in my county burns tires and coal.
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I'd like to stuff my stove with politicians....lie 'in-sobs ....
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What is exactly considered "trash"? We have piles and piles of 2x material at work and you can't find better sh!t to burn. A load of 2x's will heat 600 gallons of water faster than any seasoned firewood. Now that new laws are coming and the damage has been done,I say burn away! What else could they possibly do!?!?
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2X4's would be considered construction debris therefor illegal to burn in your stove!
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Untreated 2x4s are simply well seasoned pine trees. Can't imagine even a wacko trying to enforce a reading that it would be trash. Ok, I can imagine a wacko, but seriously...
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In Michigan "they" call it dimensional lumber. Not even supposed to burn it in a brush pile.
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I'd like to stuff my stove with politicians....lie 'in-sobs ....
Ayuh,..... I Love that idea,......
Can't say what I burn, but I don't burn plastics, roofin', nor other nasties,.....
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2X4's would be considered construction debris therefor illegal to burn in your stove!
jail me :P !!! I have near a dump trucks worth from my" home build" in progress ... 2x8/2x4/1x6's cut offs ...great for c-remover/clean burn'in !
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Guess what our electrical plant in western Wisconsin burns...garbage
The power plant in my county burns tires and coal.
Yes, but it's in a controlled situation where they can actually incinerate the tires, lots less smoke.
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Guess what our electrical plant in western Wisconsin burns...garbage
The power plant in my county burns tires and coal.
Yes, but it's in a controlled situation where they can actually incinerate the tires, lots less smoke.
And they capture poison particulates out of the exhaust. A lot higher tech than and wood boiler.
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I'd like to stuff my stove with politicians....lie 'in-sobs ....
Can I hear a amen
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Guess what our electrical plant in western Wisconsin burns...garbage
The power plant in my county burns tires and coal.
Yes, but it's in a controlled situation where they can actually incinerate the tires, lots less smoke.
:post:
I also think they use ground up tires in cement kilns.
And they capture poison particulates out of the exhaust. A lot higher tech than and wood boiler.
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I'm having a hard time with leftover 2 by's being illegal to burn, guess slabs and cant's from a sawmill would also be on the list, isn't wood that's not treated.................wood?? We have a lot of home sawed lumber around, to the tune of up to 50,000 board feet of it drying and curing at any time. We've had plenty of farm buildings around here that were built from home sawed lumber, and they got cut up and shoved into the boiler one stick at a time, the nails sorted out of the ashes later. All the scrapes coming out of the wood shop also go into the boiler. As for garbage, it depends on what you consider garbage, I'm guessing everyone has a lot of different things in their garbage compared to their neighbor, but around here anything document containing any personal information on it, gets burned.
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I didn't write the laws guys,I simply took the time to read it,my interpretation of the portion on construction debris would be for used cut offs as they possibly could contain hazardous chemicals such as paint, Personally, I'll burn what I have, just saying that if they want to be nit wits and give you a hard time, you could find yourself in court or paying a fine
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Sim are those laws state by state, or federal and are industrial applications included in that? Curious because I know of a few grocery stores that burn all their pallets, cardboard and paper in large OWB's that also heat the store, along with sawmills that burn waste to heat the mills, and some manufacturing facilities that burn all their waste to both get rid of it and to heat the offices and workplace as well.
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Sim are those laws state by state, or federal and are industrial applications included in that? Curious because I know of a few grocery stores that burn all their pallets, cardboard and paper in large OWB's that also heat the store, along with sawmills that burn waste to heat the mills, and some manufacturing facilities that burn all their waste to both get rid of it and to heat the offices and workplace as well.
How DARE those businesses not used government controlled and taxed fuel sources to heat with! How dare they not recycle through government approved facilities!
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Sim are those laws state by state, or federal and are industrial applications included in that? Curious because I know of a few grocery stores that burn all their pallets, cardboard and paper in large OWB's that also heat the store, along with sawmills that burn waste to heat the mills, and some manufacturing facilities that burn all their waste to both get rid of it and to heat the offices and workplace as well.
How DARE those businesses not used government controlled and taxed fuel sources to heat with! How dare they not recycle through government approved facilities!
:post:
Right on, just like Obamacare isn't about Healthcare the new EPA law isn't about clean air, they are both about control and revenue. Very hard to tax the firewood somebody cuts off their own property.
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Sim are those laws state by state, or federal and are industrial applications included in that? Curious because I know of a few grocery stores that burn all their pallets, cardboard and paper in large OWB's that also heat the store, along with sawmills that burn waste to heat the mills, and some manufacturing facilities that burn all their waste to both get rid of it and to heat the offices and workplace as well.
Sounds like the construction debris law was to target PT woods. The old stuff contained arsenic and the new stuff has things in it that are likely not much better. The sites you reference are not really burning construction waste and are probably OK. Having worked on a unit that used to burn 30 tons of wood waste per hour, the regulating authorities didn't really target what went into it, but they were pretty anal as to what came out of it. Hopefully, on some level, anyone downstream of that thing appreciated that.
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:post:
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No matter what style burner you have we need to all stick together. Once they take something it keeps getting worse. OWB only make up 1% of heating devices in the US. Just burn in them like your supposed to.
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I might make enemies here but I know the silent majority are with me. I will burn whatever the hell I want,whenever the hell I want.
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I was going to add that to my post but I didn't want to make some mad. I don't think the government should tell us what we can burn. I don't like to burn anything but wood coal and cardboard but I know a lot of people who burn tires, railroad ties, plastic, green wood. To each his own...
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I might make enemies here but I know the silent majority are with me. I will burn whatever the hell I want,whenever the hell I want.
Are you saying if you want to burn a tire or railroad ties you will?
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I can tell you the real answer. You get home 5 hours later then you hoped from work, it has been a cold nasty day. You walk up to your boiler and the water reads 95 degrees, the temps are suppose to drop even further during the night. You go inside and the stat is reading 55. Fear strikes! I have only green wood and my coal bed is almost nothing. Plan A: Freeze to death, Plan B: feed the boiler with whatever burns. Let me ask you.... Would you let your house freeze or load what you have available to help keep your house warm?
I read all day long how I have 3 chain saws, dump truck, skid steer, and a big old tractor. Kudos to you... you either have a farm or running a tree service. Most folks that have bought a boiler are relaying on wood delivery, they have no truck or trailer just the promise the wood boiler will deliver the heat. Yes the wood boiler delivers the heat they wanted but at large cost of huge wood deliveries frequently. No one told them 12 cords a year. Sorry, your snowed in can't get the wood delivered. I bet the average folk are out snow blowing their yards in the first year to get more wood. Let me say this... why wouldn't the average boiler owner burn whatever he gets his hands on. Bottom line most companies lie and sugar coat the boiler experience. Whoops you slept too long the wood bridged your house is cold...Hell all I have is motor oil and some logs.... You get my point its a learning experience. I was told by my installer two years ago he was installing boilers for rich renter homes. I asked him its a large task to feed these boilers, the learning curve along with the time to fill them, he laughed his way out my door. First year for most delivery boiler owners I can tell you is a nightmare. You get lied to about wood delivery size. And we criticize the crap being burned! Not everyone comes from a wood burning background
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You raise some very good points intensedrive, however several of the things you mention comes down to a lack of research. It doesn't matter what I buy I do the research, do a google search, search the records of the BBB, then find a forum much like this one to see what other peoples experiences are, I may even take a 2-4 hour drive to see what I'm looking at actually in use.
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Most folks that have bought a boiler are relaying on wood delivery, they have no truck or trailer just the promise the wood boiler will deliver the heat.
Why would you buy a boiler to then go buy wood? Everyone I know who owns a boiler cuts their own wood. Otherwise how would you save any money? Your entire argument here to burn whatever you want has no reasoning behind it. Burning "trash", tires etc. is exactly why people have a bad view of our heat source. I agree non-treated lumber is not trash. Please be responsible with your burning.
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I spend a good part of the winter hauling hay to the hay auctions, you can also buy pickup loads of firewood at the auctions. The one auction has started to collect sales tax on firewood as the state of Indiana now considers it a fuel just like gas, diesel or fuel oil. So yah, the new regs have nothing to do with revenue generation, of course Indiana jumped on the gasser bandwagon awhile ago. Don't matter if you buy the new gasser out of state, you still technically owe sales tax on it and are supposed to voluntarily report it and pay the sales tax with you Indiana tax return.
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10-12 grand for boiler and 300 a cord for 12 cords = I'm burning propane.
Electric is a different story, of course.[might be worth it]
Very little savings if yer buying wood
Plus the aggravation of getting your wife outta bed to load it at 5 am.
My water is this,, my heat loss is that,,etc etc
I may be missing some points though.
I know I would not of done it without free wood .
2500 $ for propane @80 c ltre or 300$ a cord for 6/7 cords = measly $400 savings [and wife gets to sleep in]
And... if you think about it, the gov is getting coin on you cutting /burning, your own wood, through property taxes...
And it's somehow factored in on bought wood ,,[,just hidden]
kk
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And... if you think about it, the gov is getting coin on you cutting /burning, your own wood, through property taxes...
Not sure if this is an Indiana thing or is federal but you can get your woodlands signed up as a classified forest, drops your property tax on those wooded acres down to about a dollar an acre. But...with that classified forest comes a few restrictions, mainly you can't pasture cattle in the woods, my cows prefer to be in the woods over the barn anytime, have actually had a few calves born early in some horrible weather but they did just fine in the woods. We may see about getting the 7 acre and 19 acre woods signed up first then think about it some more before signing up the last 25 acres that the cows have.
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Yes there's always ways around stuff.
You can right off you property taxes also .in some cases ..
For me, I don't mind paying property taxes for the firewood and enjoyment, privacy, I get out of the woods.
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I might make enemies here but I know the silent majority are with me. I will burn whatever the hell I want,whenever the hell I want.
Are you saying if you want to burn a tire or railroad ties you will?
Yes,I'm saying that if I "WANT" to I will. Do I want to? No,but if I did want to I would. I think we have already established that the EPA ban has nothing at all to do with what people are burning in their stoves.
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If your buying your wood, what do you save? I do land clearing and get all I can take home, we also have timber of our own, trying to clean it up and get rid of the junk tree's and debris and plant new seedlings, so I may as well take the junk home and burn it myself and save a few bucks on heating costs while I'm still able.
Around here if you have enough tree's per acre that are alive, keep the livestock out of it, you can apply for tax exemptions on the timber, there are no taxes on it at all, but its not a big deal, they just hike up the land and buildings enough to make up for it.
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I personally don't buy wood but I know a lot of people that do. 12 cord of culls for $1000. That heats a home that with lp would cost $2500. What's not to understand?
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Can't do that around here, that $1000 might get you 10-15 pickup loads of wood though.
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Don't know what a cull is,,???
My guess it's crap??
Cant buy 12 cords of bullweeds for 1000 bucks here. :o
Do some quick math and factor in the boiler$$
At that rate I can understand that the boiler would pay for itself in 12 -15 years ...in time to buy another one.
If your ok with buying wood,, thats ok with me :thumbup:
Everyones scenario is different,, but for me, it's not feasible,, culls or, whatever ;D
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Cull is undesirable. In the farming world a Cull animal is sold or goes to freezer camp :D
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Most folks that have bought a boiler are relaying on wood delivery, they have no truck or trailer just the promise the wood boiler will deliver the heat.
Why would you buy a boiler to then go buy wood? Everyone I know who owns a boiler cuts their own wood. Otherwise how would you save any money? Your entire argument here to burn whatever you want has no reasoning behind it. Burning "trash", tires etc. is exactly why people have a bad view of our heat source. I agree non-treated lumber is not trash. Please be responsible with your burning.
Because its way cheaper than propane when heating a large farm home
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I kmow this guy that buys an 18 pack of beer. Puts the beer in the fridg crisper. Leaves the box in tact on his counter top and stuffs it with junk mail . he does remove all plastic and non paper crap.
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Hey Woody, you must have been to my house, that is exactly what my wife does with our junk mail, you can fit a lot of mail in an 18 pack of Budweiser cans, only issue is I sometimes have trouble keeping up with her and we have to overfill the box.
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There are a lot of people around here who buy wood. I have never bought wood as slot of people know I have the OWB and ask me to take trees down, but to each his own. A guy I work with just put in a Hardy H25 and buys wood to get caught up and he said his electric bill was 900 dollars the month prior. Even at buying wood it would still be cheaper than electric.
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On a big operation and/ or with electric buying wood will be cheaper.
Cull,, cheaper yet, [guess it's tires and skids]
It was not feasible for me to lay out 10 grand on a stove to save,, I'm estimating here,,,
4 or 500$ a year.
Never used the propane much so the cost is an estimate.
If I was paying 600 a month for electric baseboard heaters,, yup,, buying wood and a stove will pay off.
But not for me. 8)
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I kmow this guy that buys an 18 pack of beer. Puts the beer in the fridg crisper. Leaves the box in tact on his counter top and stuffs it with junk mail . he does remove all plastic and non paper crap.
No savings here, either, as you gotta buy a lot of beer to heat your house.(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/kommandokenny/GreenGuy_1.gif)
Look,, everyone has crunched their numbers and weighed out the costs and the savings .
Some save big,, others maybe some .....
Bottom line is, we all like burning wood,, and being outdoors, so whats that worth??? lots..
It's a great forum, with lots of different players :thumbup:
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I buy 9 bush cords of maple logs for $1100, delivered right to my boiler and it lasts about 1 1/4 seasons. Contrast that with fuel oil, - 4 tanks a year at $1000 each tank. That is a huge saving, and still a lot less work, for me, than falling, limbing and transporting wood to the house.
I built my system for about $6,000. The payback was less than 2 years. It's been gravy ever since.
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:post: I have been lucky enough to find wood to burn. Like boiler house said it's still cheaper to buy the wood than to purchase fuel oil.
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I'm lookin online and cant find it that cheap .$125 a cord .
Great price!!!
Have an almost son in law,, friend ,in the firewood business and he was saying no one can get into the woods to cut here.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-other/muskoka/hardwood-logs-for-firewood/1052105481?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true (http://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-other/muskoka/hardwood-logs-for-firewood/1052105481?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true)
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Hey boiler,, did you buy it through my almost son in law ;D
[Emlaw]
Or where bouts??? cause when I hit 85 I may have to buy some :o
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A cull log,like someone said is not desirable for a mill. All that means is that it's a little crooked,dead,or maybe has a hollow spot. You guys are awful tough on a guy that buys wood. Even if it's a wash between oil and buying wood,at least the guys money is staying local. I don't see farmers coming on here asking why you buy your food. It's no different,not everyone is lucky enough to have our own woods,skidsteers,attachments,four wheelers,dump trucks,chainsaws,trailers,trucks and whatever else. Hell,I have a cousin who can't even run a chainsaw and he burns wood! It's not up to us whether someone's choice to heat their family with wood is right or not. Give them a few years and who knows,maybe they will be the ones answering our questions! Keep on trying guys
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I buy 9 bush cords of maple logs for $1100, delivered right to my boiler and it lasts about 1 1/4 seasons. Contrast that with fuel oil, - 4 tanks a year at $1000 each tank. That is a huge saving, and still a lot less work, for me, than falling, limbing and transporting wood to the house.
I built my system for about $6,000. The payback was less than 2 years. It's been gravy ever since.
Phoned next door neighbour,, 1.5 miles away ;D
He sells Maple logs ,sugar and red, for 150 @ bush cord.
With these great prices I would not break even for 10 years,,, never mind the splitter,, extra saw,, baby sitting,financing, boiler etc.etc.
I meant this wood buying scenario was not good for me .
I'm glad everyone is happy that they buy their wood.
Any savings is a help !!
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Given that all lumber around here is already bought before it's ever dropped, what exactly is a "bush" cord?
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3 face cords. = 1 bush cord or real cord
Although there is no such thing as a face cord it is still sold this way, especially retail.
in smaller batches...
1 face cord is 4' x 8' by 16"
Bush cord or real cord is as you know 4x8x4'
I think the face cord thing,, arose, sorta like the new weekly lease, on a new car .
To the untrained eye it seems cheaper??????
Ford F150 Lease for $199 a week :o
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yes the cord thing is back "slugger"
and......it's never gonna go away :bash:
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With the low prices of natural gas and the high prices of firewood I don't think I am saving any money by burning wood. I was traveling for work this winter and my gas bill was $15 for the six days my furnace ran ( kept the house at same temp as with the OWB since I have someone renting from me), which by my math would be $75/month but lets just say $100/mo to cover the extra cold days. I heat for 6 months which would be $600/year. All the wood I burn I cut off my land or county land. I also buy semi loads for $100/cord which I split and season. I sell that for $200-230/cord. If I burn through 5-6 full cords of seasoned hardwood like I am on track to burn through this year I could sell that for $1200.
Here's the problem: I like burning wood and enjoy not having to rely on the gas company. I also feel much better when I go to crank up the thermostat knowing it will only cost me a couple more pieces of wood. This year is an exception since gas is unusually low and firewood prices are high. I am also only heating 1600 Sqft.
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You will be glad your burning wood when oil and other energy goes back up.
You like the wood experience .
I think you kinda hit it, for a lotta people, on here.
I enjoy cutting wood ,the exercise,, etc....I would not get that watching the propane needle go down.
:post:
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I don't mind burning wood but I can tell you if I had Natural gas available at my house I would have never invested over 10k for my boiler and installation. I would have a brand new ECM furnace, they are amazing!
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Very true,natural gas is a whole new ballgame!
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10- 4 Woody.
We were on Nat Gas in Mississauga and paid less than $1000 cnd./year, to heat a 1500 square ft house + basement and the hot water. ++ 3 WOMEN RIDING THE HOT WATER TANK ! :o :o :o
Old crap furnace to boot. not efficient.
THATS ABOUT $750 US
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I don't mind burning wood but I can tell you if I had Natural gas available at my house I would have never invested over 10k for my boiler and installation. I would have a brand new ECM furnace, they are amazing!
Yup and if you had nat gas at your door ....you would be in the city or [town] bad tradeoff ;D
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With the low prices of natural gas and the high prices of firewood I don't think I am saving any money by burning wood. I was traveling for work this winter and my gas bill was $15 for the six days my furnace ran ( kept the house at same temp as with the OWB since I have someone renting from me), which by my math would be $75/month but lets just say $100/mo to cover the extra cold days. I heat for 6 months which would be $600/year. All the wood I burn I cut off my land or county land. I also buy semi loads for $100/cord which I split and season. I sell that for $200-230/cord. If I burn through 5-6 full cords of seasoned hardwood like I am on track to burn through this year I could sell that for $1200.
Here's the problem: I like burning wood and enjoy not having to rely on the gas company. I also feel much better when I go to crank up the thermostat knowing it will only cost me a couple more pieces of wood. This year is an exception since gas is unusually low and firewood prices are high. I am also only heating 1600 Sqft.
It cost me more than $15.00 a day to heat my 1200sq. Shop. not including the 1300sq ft. House and hot water
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KK you hit it right on the head! I probably shouldn't advertise it too much but most of you don't know where I live and wouldn't turn me in anyways. I am running my boiler on my 0.24 acre lot in a city of about 1500 people. I haven't had any complaints from any neighbors. I am also burning seasoned hardwood in a gasser. I found a good deal on my boiler and only really bought it for my next house but since I have it I decided to hook it up.
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Do you have property were you cut wood?
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Yes, I have 27 acres of mainly mature woods which I also hope to build on in the next few years. There is no natural gas ran out there.
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Nice...hope your dreams come tru.