Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: Chris M. on February 17, 2015, 06:31:41 AM

Title: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 17, 2015, 06:31:41 AM
I have a continuous loop pumping from my furnace underground to my house.  It goes through a 20 plate domestic heat exchanger then through a 40 plate heat exchanger for my base board.  The water temp from the furnace when it enters my house is at 185.  It appears that my water temp of my closed loop system is only reaching 150 at best when I need 180 after going through the exchanger.  I just replaced a Taco 009 pump in this cold weather since the old pump was making noise.  This has not fixed my problem.  Any suggestions welcomed.  As a side note, in past winters I have struggled on the coldest of days to get the base board up to temp through the exchanger.  Really need to address this problem. 
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: slimjim on February 17, 2015, 06:35:37 AM
I would bet that the restriction caused by your 20 plate in series with your 40 plate is the issue, how about adding another circ and running the 20 plate in parallel.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 17, 2015, 06:39:00 AM
There in lies the problem.  I only have one line in and out to the furnace and it is 4 feet underground.  Would buying a larger domestic heat exchanger increase the flow?  Would upsizing my pump be an option? 
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: slimjim on February 17, 2015, 06:56:07 AM
In order to solve the issue, I would place 2 closely spaced tees in the supply line from your boiler to the house, the first tee would be to mount the new circ that would supply your 20 plate and the second would be for the return from the 20 plate, the 40 plate circ would run constant with the 009 and the 20plate could be a smaller say 007, if your 20 plate is supplying a tank then it could be switched on + off by the aqua-stat on the tank.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: mlappin on February 17, 2015, 06:59:00 AM
Would he still get enough flow by placing a mono tee in the line and feeding the 20 plate off of that?
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: tawilson1152 on February 17, 2015, 07:05:46 AM
I had air trapped in the top of my heat exchanger. I had to put a valve in for a vent to get rid of it. If not there might be air elsewhere.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: slimjim on February 17, 2015, 07:15:21 AM
The Mono Flow tee is another way to do it if he wants constant flow through the 20 plate.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 17, 2015, 07:24:15 AM
Hey guys thank you all for your responses.  I am trying to understand the different approaches.  I am trying to figure out what is the best option.  In my current set up, I bypass the hot water tank completely.  I turn off the water to and from it and turn off the breaker. 
If I install the secondary 007 pump, I would only have just a few feet of circulating water in order in and out of the supply loop.  I would have to have it run constantly.  Does that sound right?  I can post a picture of my current set up if needed.   
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 17, 2015, 07:29:55 AM
I didn't see the mono flow Tee response when I typed my last response.  That might be a much easier solution if you think that option works. 

This may be a dumb question but when my supply water from the furnace goes through the heat exchanger, should the closed loop water being heated come out at the same temperature as the supply water in?  Or is there an expectation that it will be lower? 
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: slimjim on February 17, 2015, 07:46:43 AM
  It will be a bit lower for sure!
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 17, 2015, 08:07:04 AM
Will one mono flow tee be sufficient?  If just one, how far from the other "Tee" do I place this? 
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: mlappin on February 17, 2015, 08:28:09 AM
Will one mono flow tee be sufficient?  If just one, how far from the other "Tee" do I place this?

I believe you'd place the Mono Flo T first, then the return T from the 20 plate can be located anywhere after that.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: GCTerpfan on February 17, 2015, 10:46:06 AM
Could one or both of your exchangers be scaled up or have air trapped in them?  My loop runs through 400' of pipe, a 50 plate and a 30 plate heat exchanger with a Taco 007, and I am not having any issues.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 17, 2015, 03:27:21 PM
Well I went ahead and plumbed with a mono flow tee.  It is all done in pex so it didn't take too long.  In response to the last post, I think you may be right.  Although after plumbing with the mono flow tee, I got an additional 10 to 15 degrees water temp at 165 now.  I noticed some build up in the pex fittings.  Pretty bad stuff.  I don't know what else to do to treat that.  I will probably have to buy a new  heat exchanger.  I treat my furnace twice a year as recommended with the manufacturers chemical. I got 3 years out of this exchanger.  I think this is where my problem is.  Is there any way to clean an exchanger? 
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: slimjim on February 17, 2015, 03:49:23 PM
The heat exchangers can be cleaned with commercially available coil cleaner, if plumbed to do so it can be done without removal.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 17, 2015, 03:53:16 PM
Unfortunately mine are not plumbed to clean without removal.  It won't be too difficult to remove because it is all pex and easy to access.  I will have to find some of the coil cleaner.  Any idea where to get the coil cleaner?
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: slimjim on February 17, 2015, 05:39:33 PM
any good plumbing supply company will have it, CLR will work from a dept. store as well.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 18, 2015, 10:45:54 AM
Thanks again for all the help with this. I will give the coil cleaner a try.  I will repout the results. 
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: tawilson1152 on February 18, 2015, 02:03:59 PM
Chris, what is up with your water? You said you treated it, but did you test it also?
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 18, 2015, 02:50:56 PM
I have never tested my water. I just use the chemical rust inhibitor.  I was under the impression that this is all I needed to do. 
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: tawilson1152 on February 18, 2015, 05:32:35 PM
You said pretty bad stuff inside your pex fittings. Hard water type stuff or gooey algae type stuff? You could have flow issues from this as well. Someone with more knowhow than me will chime in, but I would be concerned. I ordered test kits and checked my treatment concentration and for algae, even though I didn't have any issues.
Title: Re: Issues with water temperature
Post by: Chris M. on February 18, 2015, 08:03:03 PM
I don't have issues with algae.  What I have is hardened mineral deposits inside my pex fittings and heat exchangers.  I completely agree that this is affecting my water flow.  I am now convinced that this is my entire problem.  My system had been working fine for the past 3 years.  I only noticed it struggling when the temperatures dropped this winter.