Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: slimjim on June 01, 2015, 04:58:17 AM
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Finally, Liberty trumps perceived security, Thank you for standing for Liberty Mr. Rand Paul and best wishes for your run for the White House, I am in your corner!
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Finally, Liberty trumps perceived security, Thank you for standing for Liberty Mr. Rand Paul and best wishes for your run for the White House, I am in your corner!
:post:
Unfortunately I think the deck is stacked against Rand, even Fox News usually omits him from the latest polling data.
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And, unfortunately, his stand is only being seen as a political stunt to gain votes. Cynicism raises it's ugly head again. Roger
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Well Roger if it must be considered a ploy to gain votes, it certainly worked with me, abolishing the patriot act and gaining my Liberty that was stolen soon after 911 is to me a very important thing to me! Think about it, what other candidate is truly telling you that reducing the scope of the federal govt is their # 1 priority, they all seem to lie and tell us what they think we want to hear, only Rand Paul tells us what truly needs to happen and that is true Liberty and personal responsibility, Not free stuff!
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mostly they tell you what they think will get them reelected
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We need a Republican President. But honestly, I don't give a rip if they record my cell phone conversations. Marco Rubio, (since Scott Walker doesn't seem to be running.) may be a good option.
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We need a Republican President. But honestly, I don't give a rip if they record my cell phone conversations. Marco Rubio, (since Scott Walker doesn't seem to be running.) may be a good option.
Meh, I liked Rubio, then he got all squirrelly on the undocumented democrat stuff.
Build a fence, then worry about getting rid of the ones that already snuck in.
No point in amnesty where in 20 years we’ll have another 15 or 20 million illegals here. Gotta stop the leaks, especially with Isis in the picture now.
Something like this from Aliens would be a good start if a wall can’t be built right away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0pdmj5JdDY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0pdmj5JdDY)
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I think we already have something very similar, only they fly and are used for spying and killing the enemies of Obama, God help us if the operators ever turn them loose on our citizens here!
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Well Roger if it must be considered a ploy to gain votes, it certainly worked with me, abolishing the patriot act and gaining my Liberty that was stolen soon after 911 is to me a very important thing to me! Think about it, what other candidate is truly telling you that reducing the scope of the federal govt is their # 1 priority, they all seem to lie and tell us what they think we want to hear, only Rand Paul tells us what truly needs to happen and that is true Liberty and personal responsibility, Not free stuff!
Oh, believe me Slimjim, I'm glad he did what he did to prevent it from going any further. All I meant was "some" are seeing it as a political stunt for votes. Those are the cynics I'm speaking of. What I find amusing is listen to the media reports; "it's splitting the republican party", "they are in disarray", etc... The problem is, the democrats are just as split on this subject, within their own party as the republicans but the media won't report that. I guess that's why I don't watch the news programs any more. Roger
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We need a Republican President. But honestly, I don't give a rip if they record my cell phone conversations. Marco Rubio, (since Scott Walker doesn't seem to be running.) may be a good option.
I agree. I could care less if they record my conversations but for me, I have nothing to hide and I'm willing to give up a little bit of my privacy if it means that they can intercept text messages or phone conversations that were in reference to a terrorist plot or something of that nature that puts public safety at risk. Ever wonder how they find out where and when someone will be attempting to blow up a building with innocent civilians in it? I'm sure this plays a big part in that. Now, if I were a criminal or conducting illegal activity, I would say it is against the constitution to use the information gathered to prosecute me for what I said over a phone conversation that I had no idea was being recorded.
The issue is, the government always wants to take things too far. They start a program that was intended to provide reliable intel for serious issues that can save thousands of innocent lives and they start using their power for purposes that are outside of their scope of authority. THAT i have a problem with.
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Even before, during, and now after the Patriot Act, I've always assumed we're all under surveillance and being recorded. I wouldn't assume otherwise, ever, at this point. If you think they aren't, you're delusional.
I have nothing to hide and I'm willing to give up a little bit of my privacy if it means that they can intercept text messages or phone conversations that were in reference to a terrorist plot or something of that nature that puts public safety at risk.
No. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. Hand in your assault weapons because you have no reason to have them and it'll make the public safer :o
That's exactly the reason we're losing our freedoms. England is one of the most watched, listened to, and recorded in the world and they have a huge issue with terrorist attacks. Maybe I should allow weekly inspections of my property by the local PD to make sure I'm not up to anything bad? Where does it end? It should have never begun, but it did under the guise of security.
“If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom. ”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower
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They don't exactly listen to YOUR conversations.
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Without a Warrant they should not be listening or logging anyone's phone calls period?
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That's what you would think, slim. The thing is, they don't know who they need a warrant for because they don't know who they need to be watching. When they have scanners that constantly search for key words, it pinpoints the targets for them. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about our constitution and everything that it stands for. However, it's a scary time that we live in so I'm ok with getting searched before I enter a government building or before I board a plane and even if they want to scan my text messages. You and I aren't even remotely close to being interesting enough for them to give two craps about what we are texting or talking about over the phone. They aren't looking for drug dealers, they are looking for people who plan on becoming killers.
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We need a Republican President. But honestly, I don't give a rip if they record my cell phone conversations. Marco Rubio, (since Scott Walker doesn't seem to be running.) may be a good option.
I agree. I could care less if they record my conversations but for me, I have nothing to hide and I'm willing to give up a little bit of my privacy if it means that they can intercept text messages or phone conversations that were in reference to a terrorist plot or something of that nature that puts public safety at risk. Ever wonder how they find out where and when someone will be attempting to blow up a building with innocent civilians in it? I'm sure this plays a big part in that. Now, if I were a criminal or conducting illegal activity, I would say it is against the constitution to use the information gathered to prosecute me for what I said over a phone conversation that I had no idea was being recorded.
I’ve been over to England three times to vacation and visit the wife’s side of the family, they have those CCTV cameras everywhere. At first they didn’t bother me much as they obviously work there, our Auntie Ingrid lives in a town of 35,000, has no police on duty except for 8 hours a day and mostly they are there taking accident reports and such, if crime is a problem in an area they just add more CCTV camera’s. Here a town of 35,000 with no police on duty would tear it self apart. So yes they obviously work there.
Last time there though I’ve come to despise those cameras, by recording my every movement they are assuming I’m guilty and just waiting for the proof. I’ve flipped several the bird on the last trip just to see what would happen if anything.
By giving up a freedom, which I consider the same as privacy for security your coming ever closer to losing all your freedoms, I love visiting England but it bugs me to no end that my little 3” NRA pocket knife is considered a lethal weapon there as it locks, so I have to leave it in the Jeep at O’Hare. They’ve stripped their citizens of the right to bear arms years ago and now talk is of banning kitchen knives over a certain size….
Kitchen knives for gods sake, and they’ve taken it a step further even, over there if you are pulled over under the suspicion of drunk driving you are automatically assumed to be guilty until you can prove yourself innocent, doesn’t matter if it takes a year to get to court, you will NOT drive until you can prove yourself innocent. Let me repeat that, guilty until proved innocent. All this of course is for the “safety of the public”, sounds very familiar to recording our phone calls without our permission does it not?
This country is lost if enough people start to think that giving up a little freedom is worth a little bit of worthless security.
Worthless you may ask? Worthless I say. That little bit of security didn’t stop the Boston bombing and didn’t give the authorities enough heads up to stop the tom f*ckery at the Draw Mohammed event either.
Been a long day, I’m tired, not near as eloquent as I can be discussing politics, but this pretty much sums it all up:
For those of you who have seen it a little blurb with my comments in bold print.
”And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.
Sounds very much like the politically correct movement doesn’t it?
How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.~~~~~~People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people”
Change high chancellor Adam Sutler to Bush and Obama and pretty much hit that on the head.
For those of you who haven’t the clip:
https://youtu.be/KKvvOFIHs4k
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“If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom. ”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower
:post:
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You have some good points Marty. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that it doesn't bother me. I'm not a fan of giving up any of my rights either and I really don't feel like I have. This wouldn't be an issue if the government didn't overstep their boundaries like they always do. The amount of technology that the government has to collect information is unreal and monitoring cell phones is just one of their tools. Have you heard of the cameras mounted on squad cars that constantly scans license plates and tracks where vehicles have been and if it reads the plate and there is a warrant out for their arrest it alerts the officer? Weather the government is watching or not, you should always assume that someone is watching you when using any type of cell phone or computer, as nothing is private these days.
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USA Freedom Act = f- them !!! every thing them sob's name....... means the exact opposite this chit is getting old ....and Bruce j ... chit.... wanting to be Caitlyn Jenner.... Is just plain sick WHY to they jam this stuff up our Azz's at every turn ..... I aint no dam hater ...but some things are just wrong ...!@#$%^&*(*&^%$#@ oh yea ...have a nice summer men ! O0
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Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were both quoted as saying "Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY".
How have we fallen so far from the ideals our founders built this country upon? That's easy-when you take GOD out of the equation. You devalue life to a clump of tissue to be discarded, you believe the government can raise children better than a family with a mom and dad and you don't call sin-sin and wonder why people behave like animals?
We need to follow our constitution and give anyone who doesn't want to a free one way plane ride to the country of their choice.
Thank you for a refreshing conversation. God Bless you all and God Bless America.
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Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were both quoted as saying "Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY".
How have we fallen so far from the ideals our founders built this country upon? That's easy-when you take GOD out of the equation. You devalue life to a clump of tissue to be discarded, you believe the government can raise children better than a family with a mom and dad and you don't call sin-sin and wonder why people behave like animals?
We need to follow our constitution and give anyone who doesn't want to a free one way plane ride to the country of their choice.
Thank you for a refreshing conversation. God Bless you all and God Bless America.
Well said! :thumbup:
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AFP, let me be perfectly clear on this point, as you all probably know, yes I do partake occasionally in smoking some weed BUT I am not in any way a drug dealer nor do I in any way support the illegal trade, I actually despise those who destroy our young by pushing crap onto them. With that being said, I agree that is probably not the intentions of our govt by spying on us but let's look at why we should not want govt to control our own security shall we. Adolf Hitler, my mother in law lived through the Second World War, she and her entire family were hoodwinked into becoming Nazi's by their own govt, first came gun control to
(Protect the citizens) then came division of the people with govt sponsored propaganda, that division of the people allowed for the gathering of information, individuals and groups for extermination, does any of this sound familiar? We MUST stop our govt's expansion and control over our lives, we MUST learn to take control back to the people, we are currently in the information gathering stage, we have started the division stage, next comes Martial Law. We have as citizens listened to the Rhetoric of how the TSA has made our skies safer, I call bull sheet, I read a report recently that the TSA failed to stop over 75% of the test red team smuggling weapons on board planes here in the US, well a lot of good those billions of dollars spent has done there. As Marty has said, his 3 inch jackknife is not allowed in Europe, it is also not allowed for carry on, not even a box cutter, for our own safety, are you kidding me? I'm not going to sit back and leave my safety up to folks who get it wrong 75% of the time! personally when I fly! I sit as far back in the plane as possible and carry weapons that we all carry every day! they are called Credit cards, if you think that they can't be used to protect yourself and the rest of the plane you are DEAD wrong but it takes personal responsibility, Liberty and compassion for your fellow man, I never enter a room without knowing how I am going to protect myself and those I love, I suggest that others start thinking the same way, your govt is not at all concerned with your safety, only it's own expansion for more control of the people for power. Wake up America! Protect yourself before that God given right is taken away by the govt that you trust!
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Have you heard of the cameras mounted on squad cars that constantly scans license plates and tracks where vehicles have been and if it reads the plate and there is a warrant out for their arrest it alerts the officer? Weather the government is watching or not, you should always assume that someone is watching you when using any type of cell phone or computer, as nothing is private these days.
They have those in England as well, scans you’re license plate then the stickers in the window to make sure you’re emissions and safety test is current and that you have insurance, but these are not just on the police cars, they are everywhere. Were getting closer to Orwell’s 1984 everyday but a lot of Europe has been there for awhile.
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Slim, just to clarify, I wasn't directing that comment about drug dealers towards you in any way and I hope you don't feel like that was the case. I was simply trying to compare how drug dealers are irrelevent compared to what they are looking for. I am a very open minded person and I'm not stuck in my ways, so when you guys explain your side of story I honestly take everything you say into consideration. With that being said, I respect everyone's opinions and don't judge people by what views they have. I just ask that my views are respected as well. I don't think that is even an issue here though and I truly enjoy having conversations like this. Maybe one day we can all get toghether over a few cold ones and when I lose the debait, I'll buy everyone a beer. I am a supporter of Rand Paul and I would vote for him. I applaud him and all of you for standing up for what you believe in. I guess I'm just used to having absolutely zero privacy from being in the military, that this type of thing doesn't bother me.
I can tell that all of you are very patriotic and I most definitely am myself. In the end, I think what Rand Paul has done will be what's best for this great nation. I just don't know if right now is the best time to do it. With all that is going on in the world, I have to fear for my families safety every day because of the career path I have chosen. Am I scared? Not really, but I worry about not being prepared to protect my family if I am caught off guard. I have huge target painted on my back. There are individuals who want me dead and if our government is willing to try and prevent that from happening, I'm going to let them. But as many of you have mentioned, give them an inch and they will take a mile. This is a touchy subject and it's really not black and white.
I thank all of you for you comments and for explaining why you think the way that you do. That's what makes these United States so amazing.
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An ammended bill passed. They will still be recording but they need a warrant to access them.
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Not to beat a dead horse over the head, but like I pointed out I consider privacy and freedom to be one in the same as you can’t have one without the other. The anti-gun crowd for years has been trying to take a little freedom from gun owners every chance they get with the excuse it’s for the public safety.
Statistics on the other hand say something entirely different though, donut shops, NRA conventions and FOPS are never the scene of a mass shooting and Chicago’s crime rate has dropped drastically since the good people of Illinois were once again allowed to be full citizens of the USA by giving them their second amendment rights back.
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During WWII we rounded up Japanese-Americans and put them in
concentration camps for the public's safety. You don't see that in the history books anymore, just like the Germans pretend like the Holocaust didn't happen.
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No offense taken AFP and thank you for your service, you made a choice to be where you are and God bless you for your sacrifice, as for me, although I did my time in the guards back in the early 80s I today feel that big government is not the answer, I feel we are much better served as citizens to get to know your neighbors, help protect them and society by becoming more aware of your personal surroundings, don't leave your own safety to big government spies, LIERS and theives.
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""govt that you trust"" lol
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Quote from schoppy:
"How have we fallen so far from the ideals our founders built this country upon? That's easy-when you take GOD out of the equation. You devalue life to a clump of tissue to be discarded, you believe the government can raise children better than a family with a mom and dad and you don't call sin-sin and wonder why people behave like animals?"
This is the answer. period. Ultimate Truth and Morality have been eroded and deluded by people who have fallen prey to sin. We, as a nation, will come under judgement for this.
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Quote from schoppy:
"How have we fallen so far from the ideals our founders built this country upon? That's easy-when you take GOD out of the equation. You devalue life to a clump of tissue to be discarded, you believe the government can raise children better than a family with a mom and dad and you don't call sin-sin and wonder why people behave like animals?"
This is the answer. period. Ultimate Truth and Morality have been eroded and deluded by people who have fallen prey to sin. We, as a nation, will come under judgement for this.
Careful with that, its the same reasoning that the Westboro Babtist Church uses to protest at service members funerals, if a group doesn’t deserve to be reclassified as a hate group then I don’t know who does.
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Mlappin -
Point taken. I do not in any way support those whack jobs from Westboro. They obviously have some wires crossed.
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Most people would have to agree that the government is a bit too involved in a lot of areas. Dairy farmers have one more headache thanks to a handfull of greens sitting in offices in D.C. Check out the following link
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/17/us-usa-pollution-manure-idUSKBN0KQ00F20150117 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/17/us-usa-pollution-manure-idUSKBN0KQ00F20150117)
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Most people would have to agree that the government is a bit too involved in a lot of areas. Dairy farmers have one more headache thanks to a handfull of greens sitting in offices in D.C. Check out the following link
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/17/us-usa-pollution-manure-idUSKBN0KQ00F20150117 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/17/us-usa-pollution-manure-idUSKBN0KQ00F20150117)
Not to mention they’ve passed the latest regulations with the EPA, now if you have a over zealous employee they can call a puddle in your yard a wetland.
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Patriot act = rape
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I'd rather be raped than have my Liberty stolen and that is what the Patriot Act does!