Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: CornFarmer416 on December 10, 2015, 04:27:15 AM
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I live in central Ohio, and just built a new house. 2600 sq ft with full basement (not finished yet) and a 1000 SQ ft attached garage with 11' ceilings in it that I'm heating. 2x6 walls and good windows. It is sealed up tight. I have had several people ask me why I didn't put a Geo Thermal in instead of a wood boiler. The reason I bought the wood boiler is because we have access to pretty much as much free wood as I need. I live in 20 acres so I had plenty of land to put the Geo in. I guess my question is should I have gone with the geo thermal? I'm young and enjoy cutting wood and doin the work.
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I've looked at 2 Geo Thermal systems in the last 2=3 years for people wanting to build new homes. Seems like you should figure in the range of 50K(in our area). There are some rebates available that bring the $ down but they still are very expensive. The biggest benefit I see is that you get cooling in the summer months. To me, the up front cost is more then most people want to pay. I think you made the right choice.
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Ditto, what he ^^^ said Roger
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Not sure exactly what my father has in the house he just bought, he called it a heat pump, does have an electric furnace for when the heat pump can’t keep up. Also has an electric water heater.
Most likely will be installing a G100 before the end of the month as he wants to heat the breezeway and garage as well.
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Very good points. I weighed all options when I looked into my situation. I am all electric resistance. Electric water heaters. I looked at installing heat pumps, propane, geothermal, and wood. Natural gas is not an option where I live, as is the case for most of us rural dwellers. My preference was definitely geotherm. The ease of use, you get warmth in the summer and cool in the winter. You can heat your water off of it some. Many benefits. However, the up front cost and return on investment (ROE) wasn't there. By the time you approached your break even point (20+ years), you would likely be replacing main components. Not worth it.
The heat pump analysis was quite a bit less expensive up front. BUT, the ROE was still too long. My monthly electric usage wouldn't go down much over my current situation, therefore extending the ROE for longer than it was worth.
My pay off for the stove is 4 years. That's inside the 100% replacement warranty of 5 years for the stove. I'm young, I like to cut wood. The heat quality is far superior to the heat pump or geotherm.
While we're young, the stove is the way to go. In fact, I would still be saving money if I BOUGHT every piece of wood I put in the stove.
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I have been in a few homes that use Geothermal and to be honest, it never feels comfortable to me. If i'm spending $30k on a heating system it better make my home comfortable! I have an electric heat pump in my home that is not currently working. They work great until the outside temperature gets down below freezing and then after that the heating strips kick in and runs the electric bill up. CBJ made a good point about the components beginning to fail just about the time it has paid for itself.
I think the biggest factor when considering a OWB is the instant savings. The initial cost will be expensive but your heating bill will be nearly non-existant from the first day you light a fire in it. You can buy a Geothermal system or a 95% efficient gas furnace but it still costs money to operate those systems.
For folks like us who don't mind a little bit of work to ensure our families stay warm. An OWB is the best way to go. I'll use wood to heat my home until I'm not physically capable anymore.
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I’d hate to see my fathers electric bill if he decided to run his duct work from the heat pump/electric furnace out to the breezeway and garage.
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Thanks for the reply's, makes me feel better about my choice. There is a lot of lazy people anymore, and having a wood boiler also keeps you in shape. There's just Somethin about heating your home with wood in my mind., and I dont mind how hot my wife keeps the house, and she loves that so that's a plus haha.
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Happy wife=Happy life :thumbup:
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Geothermal is simply electric heat but getting your heat molecules from the cold ground instead of the colder air. You are still dependent on your rates from the electric company. Also, the drier the soil you run your coils into, the less efficiently it works.
I built a new house last year and was quoted about $65,000 for the havoc system using geo, versus $30,000 for propane system. Add in $11,000 for the wood boiler setup. I am so glad I went propane and wood boiler. Electric company announced last winter rate increases of 100% since I got the quote so I'd have been screwed with the geo system. If I didn't have wood, still be better off with propane. Propane prices fluctuate both up and down, electric rates never decrease... I am heating house and detached garage with the wood boiler, whereas with geo I'd have to come up with an additional way to heat the garage, like a wood stove or a propane heater.
So you did the right thing by avoiding geo. my 2 cents...
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Get your wood boiler tied into using a dedicated solar panel array to power ONLY your wood boiler electronics. Tie the same solar power into a dedicated on demand electric water heater and you can just have your system cycle hot water year round for "free" without burning wood or other biomass. ;) :thumbup:
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We did a complete reno on our 2500 sq ft house about 6 years ago.
A few points....Geothermal is NOT the same as a heat pump. We needed new ductwork and would have needed a new chimney, BUT we are on a small lake and I have a back hoe. Our geo price wound up at just over $10,000 with me doing some of the work and a government rebate.
A few weeks ago we had a cold spell and our t'sat was set for 68F. The actual temp in the house at 2am was 66F as the unit could not keep up with the minus 30 degree temps AND our back up resistance heat is locked out. Been that way since day one, but we figured it was better to have it in case the compressor quit. Meanwhile that compressor generates over forty gallons of hot water on those cold nights with a TOTAL electrical load of 2.5 KW, the same as two portable baseboard heaters.
Meanwhile our little rental house next door needed more heat to satisfy the new tenants, so I found a slightly used P&M ML36 and installed it over there (150' away). Next summer we will relocate the OWB to a point midway between the two houses and run some pipe!! :thumbup:
Gathered some figures and did some didlin yesterday. Seems we used $500 worth of hydro in our Geothermal unit since the middle of last August (some would have been AC, but not much) We keep the thermostat at 68 because that is where my wife likes it, if she goes out for the day I crank it up....
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Every time I visit a house during the winter that has Geo thermo; they have a ton of space heaters, and it still feels like a wine cellar. Not freezing, but you defiantly can use a turtle neck and long pants and a sweater. I love my boiler. Yes, it's more work, and have to buy some coal; but it's 75F inside and my wife is not running around in sweaters and long pants ;)
Last month it was -15F windchill and she had to open the windows upstairs for a min - too hot :)
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I’ve done two farm shows since December and have heard much the same, I have geothermal and hate it, I have a heat pump and hate it, installing a wood boiler and was the best thing I done, looking to install a wood boiler as my system sucks, etc etc.
A lot of the HVAC guys around here while sharing a few adult beverages will still call em three season systems. They work great spring and fall, work good for AC in the summer but fail horribly when it’s 0F or below with a 20 mph wind howling.
If I could only keep this old farm house at 68 all winter the most skin I’d see on the wife would be her hands and face and since we are both young at heart yet that just ain’t acceptable. She’s much happier with it at 73 during the day.
Happy wife, happy life.
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There are many variables to consider when choosing any heat source but with this question I have first hand experience with just about all the options you could consider.
A little background first. I am 57 years old and have burned wood since I was 19 with most of those years using an indoor forced air wood furnace I built. In 2008 my son suffered a traumatic brain injury due to doctor negligence. We were told he wouldn't live but God had other plans. He is still with us but is 24/7 total care. After the court case we had to put on an addition to our home so Zach could come home and we could care for him. About the same time my wife became very sensitive to smoke and allergens following a surgery she had. After burning wood for more than 30 years at the time, I had to make a decision on a heating system for our home with a new addition and indoor wood burning was out.
I have always been able to get wood to burn but do not own the supply myself. I made the decision to install geothermal after doing a lot of home work on all the options. At the time fracking wasn't heard of and LP prices averaged $2.00 plus per gallon and closer to $2.50 to $3.00 in the winter if you weren't locked in (natural gas not available). There is a big difference between Geothermal and a Heat pump. On average Geothermal is 500% efficient depending on system size and compressor configuration, no heat pump can compare. For my home and new addition I needed 2 systems, one forced air (water to air) which would heat about 65% of the house and air condition the entire home. The second system (water to water) used in floor radiant for the rest of the home and a heated attached garage. The total cost for both systems installed cost a little over $43,000 with a 30% federal tax rebate it came to about $30,000 out of pocket. With LP prices where they were my payback was just under 8 years versus high efficiency LP as I am on time of day electric rates. My systems have a 10 year warranty with lifetime compressor warranty. Geothermal and high efficiency gas heat much alike in that the temperatures are cooler to achieve highest efficiencies but the home can be as warm as you want it if the systems are sized properly, just turn up the thermostat. Rather than use electric for emergency back up I installed a high efficiency LP furnace for my air handler and emergency heat back up for less money than the electric setup would have cost me from my Geo dealer. I have been in the HVAC servicing business for over 30 years. My Geo units also have de-super heaters to help heat my hot water. As far as current technology goes, Geothermal is the most efficient but not necessarily the most cost effective.
Fast forward, burning wood again. Put up a 50 x 60 x 16 shed with in floor radiant for our handicap RV and needed a heat source but my Geo's aren't big enough to handle the additional load. Decided to go with an OWB for the shed then decided to put all heat loads on it while I was going to burn wood anyway. First OWB wasn't big enough and had to upsize but the fuel savings (for the shed) did cover almost all the cost with what I sold that unit for. Went to a gasser and really notice the difference in efficiency and emissions. The other benefit is the less dependency on the electric company and, in an emergency my whole house standby generator will handle all needed loads as well.
The first year with the OWB I only saved $300 on my electric bill but I only had my large geo system and DHW being replaced by the OWB and was still using my smaller geo system. I will check it at the end of this season but I would guess it may be $500 savings at best since this has been a very mild winter. My main savings comes from not having to heat the shed with LP. I would be looking at a very long payback for my OWB if it were in electric savings only. Even burning wood with the wood free isn't free if a person figures in all variables not to mention your time.
I picked up a complete geo system big enough to do my shed, just 3 years old on Craigslist, for $2200 (will need a loop field installed though). It sits in my shed waiting for the day the Good Lord says it's time to stop burning wood. For now, it's wood with geo backup.