Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: mlappin on December 19, 2015, 03:36:58 PM
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Have had the G400 up and running for almost 6 weeks and have learned a few things that will hopefully make it easier on new to the OWB folks.
1: On filling it the first time with water, I waited until the low water light went out, turned my pumps on and the fill water off and let em circulate a bit until I couldn’t hear any air entering the stove anymore then turn the fill water back on, if you shut the water off when the indicator is about half way up the scale it will be pretty close to clear full once the water is up to 180, a little more can be added if desired once it’s shut off at 180, don’t fill clear full before you start the stove or at 160 as it will puke some water out the sight gauge once it reaches 180.
2: A good coat of the Turtle Wax paste on the damper cover makes it much easier to clean off any drippings from when you open the door.
3: Starting is pretty straight forward, be sure to follow the directions in the manual, lots of small pieces to get a coal bed established quickly as possible. Think like trying to get a wood cooking fire to coal stage as quickly as possible, small rounds and splits seem to work best. Unlike some other brands, on the Heatmaster G400 at least doesn’t appear to be such a thing as too much coal bed unless it starts to get so deep it covers the slots in the bottom of the air channels right below the removable panels.
4: No need to over stir the coal bed, I’m still using the poker from my old OWB and simply run it around all four sides to make sure the coals and ash are loose and not sticking from any creosote buildup and I don’t stir the area at all around the nozzle.
5: When it was much warmer I was only stacking the amount of wood needed directly over the nozzle, BUT I’m using a firewood processor and my pieces range from 16-18” long so I can place a row at the back and a row at the front then place any long pieces on top of that. Now that winter has come back I’ve found that it’s running longer I haven’t run out of wood but it can burn away the coals from either the front or back of the nozzle slot if the wood is only placed in the center and you’ll get a small amount of smoke as the coals are essential in helping to preheat the combustion gasses so they can be totally consumed in the secondary burn chamber. It still ran just fine and we had a warm house so happy wife, but smoke is wasted fuel.
6A: Did a complete cleaning before restarting Thursday morning, found very little ash in the top chamber where the draft inducer is, but with the warmer weather we had earlier I wasn’t going thru a large amount of wood either, so how often it actually needs cleaned will rely a lot on amount and type of wood burnt.
6B: On cleaning the lower reaction chamber, it doesn’t need done that often, but ash is an excellent insulator so the more often its done and the more bare metal exposed to the heat the more heat exchange area you’ll have which increases efficiency. I was cleaning once a week, but may go up to several times a week or every other day as wood consumption goes up. Again your situation may be different and so will the cleaning intervals.
7A: I’m burning dry wood, has tested between 15% and 20% but with the colder air was still getting some drips on the damper cover during idling, I tightened the door by moving the top and bottom latch rollers a 1/16” of an inch each and have completely eliminated drips while idling. With my old stove if you got up in the morning and had ice under the door on the cement it was a sign that the door latch needed to be tighter or a new gasket was in order. It’s not so much as trying to seal the water in as keeping the cold air out, doesn’t take much cold air hitting the warm air or metal around the door to cause condensation and drips.
7B: A good way to test to make sure you have good seals on both front doors and the power vent panel is to place the bypass handle into bypass so the fan starts but leave the loading and secondary doors closed then either using a cigar or a bic lighter on a calm day take the cigar or lighter around your seals and watch to see if the smoke or flame is pulled into the seal, if so adjustment is required.
8: Once your coal bed is well established some larger rounds or unsplittables can be used as long as you use enough smaller pieces to replenish the coal bed. I’ve been using several rounds 12-14” in diameter each time I fill and have been doing just fine. My large rounds are ironwood and elm and both are under 25%.
9A: Filling it, you can obviously do this at any time, I prefer to wait until right before it’s ready to start a new burn cycle, you won’t have near the heat to deal with in the firebox as the coals will have had time to settle down a bit.
9B: I’ve found if you’ve let the coal bed burn quite low, the first cycle you may get a little smoke and the next several cycles you’ll more than likely get a little steam out the stack. Steam or condensation is easy to tell, it will form a foot or more after exiting the stack and will dissipate very quickly. My old stove in a temperature inversion where the smoke came out then hugged the ground I’ve seen it drift almost a quarter mile before completely dissipating.
10: I let it go out and left it out for 6 days, the last two it could have been running but I was at a trade show for two days. Something interesting I found, the morning of the second day after letting it go out, I turned it back on out of curiosity and after ten minutes still had live coals in the ash bed, so if required doing a batch burn in the shoulder season shouldn’t be a problem as you wont be starting from scratch as it seems to hold coals for a long time.
Some pics of cleaning it, did the whole stove in less than 30 minutes. Depending on how much and kind of wood, most likely a person wouldn’t have to clean the power vent area more than once or twice thru the burning season.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167/Marty_Lappin/HeatmasterSS/IMG_1494_zpsfggt161v.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167/Marty_Lappin/HeatmasterSS/IMG_1495_zpsukv7rgbj.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167/Marty_Lappin/HeatmasterSS/IMG_1496_zpsjgw0nrce.jpg)
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Restarted the 400 Thursday afternoon after a thorough cleaning. Water in the stove and the shop stove was at 75 degrees, took a very short time to get the stove water to above 140, once it was getting closer to 150 I turned on the shop stove to FPHE pump and started heating the 450 gallons the shop stove holds. Even brought that up pretty quickly, was pulling over 30 degrees from the G400 side of the FPHE, the 400 didn’t loose any ground unlike my old one would have but it did slow down the rate at which the temp was climbing which was fine as it gave a much longer burn.
I have several empty 125 pound protein tubs around, when stacking wood I stack all the ideal kindling and small pieces in those and place em inside somewhere so they are ultra dry when time to start a fire.
A picture of the wood rack the next morning after getting almost 700 gallons of water up to temp and heating the shop and house all night. It was full level with the uprights on each end.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167/Marty_Lappin/HeatmasterSS/IMG_1505_zpszuorpfco.jpg)
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Anyone ever put a chunk of coal in one of these
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Anyone ever put a chunk of coal in one of these
From my understanding coal won’t gassify. When they do that with coal they grind it extra fine and blow the resulting coal dust into the fire.
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I think you are right, I believe it must be a dust and suspended by air much like a commercial sawdust burner.
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That stove looks nice and dry,just dust. My son and son in law are burning a G100 and G200 and are putting the pressure on the old man to get a G200. Just stuck in my old ways and love the way my C375 does. Pics like this just adds fuel to their side of the argument. Just stuck in a rut. Can't even use a smart phone.
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I don't know if you've burnt any bituminous coal but the first half of its burn is releasing lots of volatile gases that can burn really well. If it doesn't burn it's what's results in the black smoke. The second half of the burn life is when all the gasses are burnt off and your left with Coke, just a glowing red Chuck. It's a completely different animal than anthracite (hard coal) with is commonly burned in indoor heating stoves. I just figured the huge amounts of gas released from the first half of the cycle with bituminous coal it would be great in a gasser. Not sure if it would do to well in the latter half though
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That stove looks nice and dry,just dust. My son and son in law are burning a G100 and G200 and are putting the pressure on the old man to get a G200. Just stuck in my old ways and love the way my C375 does. Pics like this just adds fuel to their side of the argument. Just stuck in a rut. Can't even use a smart phone.
Depends on what you'd pay for coal, in northern Indiana expect to pay $200-250 a ton, in southern Indiana a guy told me he can take his 5 yard dump truck to the mine and pay $20-30 a ton. If I could buy coal that cheap I'd have several chainsaws for sale in short order.
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I'm burning wood now, have burned a little coal. There is a lot of variations in coal and we get good and bad. I knew someone in southern Indiana that tried burning coal and they said it had a lot of slag in it, wouldn't hardly burn. I think it still crushes and burns in a blast furnace o.k. I understand western coal has less BTU per pound but burns more like wood. It's not compacted as tight.Heatmaster uses it to heat their plant. Great for a outdoor furnace. I heard of someone trying a lump of coal in a gasser, said it did good until gas was burned off but just stopped up the hole with what was left.Most of smokeless coal units are commercial blast that I've heard of. Just a big hurdle to make a small unit work like that.
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Would there be any warranty issues with burning coal in a G series?
I gave some to my cousin that has an indoor european gasser. (not sure what brand) He really liked it at first. Was burning clean and making a lot of heat. It was making a lot more ash than wood though and plugged the nozzles. I am not sure what the nozzles are like on his boiler but it sounded like they are pretty small and along each side.
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Wood makes 1-2 percent ash. Coal makes 10-12 percent ash.
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I worked maintenance in a coal fired electric generating station for over 5 years early in my career. One thing to remember with coal is that it always creates slag. That is why coal burners have shaker grates also. The slag can also join together and form big clinkers as we use to call them and that is from burning coal in an extremely fine dust form. When burning coal in chunk form there is even more unburnable elements in it that aren't separated out before burning like in a generating plant. I would be surprised if it would work for long if at all in a gasser and I bet the factory would say no to the idea as well.
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Yes I'm sure heatmaster would say no. Your right about the extreme heat cause the clinkers, which you would prolly have in a forced air gasser. Last year I burned 5 tons of coal in softball the basketball size chunks in a inside stove, not running extreme temps, 300-600 degrees, and didn't have the first clinker
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Thanks for all the info, Marty. I recently sarted adding two seperate rows of wood in my G400 like you mentioned above. I put one in the back and one in the front and only fill it no higher than the bottom of the firebox door. I have found that it burns much better this way and recovers a LOT faster. I think the main difference is having a good coal bed that covers the entire length of the slot in the bottom of the firebox. If I only added one row directly over the slot, there was a small portion of the slot that would be exposed in the front and back of the stack of wood that allowed air and smoke to make it's way into the secondary chamber without passing through the coal bed first. This resulted in more smoke than normal exiting the exhaust. I think with a G100 or 200, a single stack would work just fine but since I cut my firewood in 16-18" pieces, it's not long enough to cover the entire slot. I keep both rows seperate to allow each row to burn and settle independently of eachother. So far I haven't had any issues with bridging and it creates a nice coal bed that covers the entire bottom of the firebox.
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is that a beer can i see it that there pic.
does a trip to the boiler equal an opportunity for a cold beverage hehehe!!!
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is that a beer can i see it that there pic.
does a trip to the boiler equal an opportunity for a cold beverage hehehe!!!
Actually it’s a Mountain Dew can that I picked up out of the edge of the woods.
I married a damn fine woman though and she knows I’m a big boy now. I’ve nursed her back to health after her first AICD was implanted in 2008, again when she had a new one in March of this year and when in the fall of 2010 when she had her third and hopefully last open heart surgery. I did all the housework, laundry, shopping, dishes and cooking while getting the last of the harvest done. She’d prefer I’d cook all the time as she says I’m the better cook and in the two months she was recovering she lost 20lbs on my cooking. She was taught to cook by her mother who beliefs fat, salt and carbs should each be their own food groups.
In other words, I can have an adult beverage anytime I feel like it with absolutely no flak from her. I’m spoiled actually but won’t admit it as I don’t want it to go to her head. ;)
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ur a good man.merry xmas
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Ok you G400 owners, how many of you have rain caps on your stacks?
I finally received the parts for my G400 and tore it apart today to replace the venter plate gaskets first (the sealant will need to cure for 24 hrs) then I'll clean the bottom, replace the refractory and clean up the rest of the mess. I couldn't get 2 pictures of the back of my stove to show up with this post showing the terrible mess I have from creosote running down the back of my unit. After inspecting the venter cavity area I believe the majority of this mess came from all the rain we have been getting in this mild weather coming down the chimney. I'm sure the venter plate not sealing well doesn't help the situation either. There are drippings coming down around the venter assembly from above. In this mild weather, with the unit idling a lot, it must not be hot enough to burn off the 4 to 6 inches of rain we have received in the last few weeks. I asked the factory about using a rain cap when I installed it and they said it isn't necessary, just cover the chimney in the off season. After cleaning up the entire venter opening area the floor on mine actually appears to slope slightly towards the opening and there is no lip on the edge of the opening to stop any moisture from running out through the gaskets which weren't sealing good.
An 8 in chimney will let in a lot of rain so I'm wondering if a rain cap will cause any issues and which type would work best?
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I think you have the correct diagnosis with the venter plate not sealing properly and the rain obviously isn't helping, I think when you get your gaskets sealed and start using larger wood, packing it in like you are stacking it not simply throwing it in, you will see a big difference in it's performance!
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Sometimes the rain caps cause more problems, they can get clogged and will restrict your airflow.
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Yes I have seen them plug up too. I was thinking making one more like a tin man hat for the fringe times or when heavy rain is predicted.
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Was pretty chilly the last week or so here, highs barely in the low twenties, burnt half a cord in a week heating the shop and house, no snow so saved a little wood by not having the snowmelt in. Actually had a little powder, but the leaf blower took care of that.
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Pretty confident I sized the current stove properly after today.
Cold and windy with snow, have a 100,000 btu HX in the house, two 50,000’s and another 100,000 in the shop. Woke up to snow this AM so started the snow melt, house was also calling for heat and the wife was running both the dishwasher and washing machine. I do have the 450 gallons of thermal storage in the shop and the three HX in their pull of that with with a 50 plate HX between the storage and the G400, after starting the snow melt I went out i the shop and turned all three thermostats up to 65 (one for each HX).
On the way in I added more wood to the 400, once it got the new charge going good it got the water up to 176-177 and ran there for over two hours until everything else caught up. IE sidewalk started returning warmer water to the reservoir and the heaters in the shop started to cycle on and off.
Much to my chagrin it does pay to follow directions though, Sunday I worked in the basement building more storage and tried something different in how I filled it. Before in the shoulder season I tried stacking my wood just in the center over the nozzle, problem was the ends would burn up first exposing the nozzle and it seemed like it produce more smoke, so just of the heck of it I tried placing my pieces (17 inches long) across the fire box wit the thought as the center burned out it would fall in to cover the nozzle, it burnt, but never cycled off, just kinda stuck around 172 most of the day. My theory is with the wood stacked the same direction as the fresh air enters it just flowed right between the pieces and right out the nozzle. After it burnt down a bit I rearranged the pieces and it cycled off shortly afterwards.
I may try just one row again in the shoulder season but set the firewood processor for the maximum length of 24” and stack that wood separate from the rest.
One thing I have found that helps with using 17 inch long pieces is when I’m filling to place the bottom layer all the way to the back, then the second layer all the way to the front, third layer all the way to the back, etc. This keeps the ends from all being right in the center of the stove, before I think the fire would work up thru the center first and some mornings the nozzle would be exposed with charred wood all around the outside of the firebox, I’ve not had this since starting to stagger the layers or when I’m burning pole trees that I’ve cut 30-36” long.
Have my smaller rack at the stove now, about 8-10” shorter than the one that holds half a cord, should get 3 full days and a partial out of it, so if the colder weather keeps up I would figure on burning 3-4 cords a month if the snow keeps up. The snow melt almost pulls as hard as the house and shop combined when first turning it on. Thinking of changing the 30 plate out for a 20 so it doesn’t pull as hard at first, getting 140-150 degree water from the thirty plate before the tempering valve and only running 80-100 degrees to the sidewalk so the 20 should do fine.