Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: slimjim on January 20, 2016, 05:02:13 AM
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Recently I have been hammering Efficiency Maine on Facebook for their unfair tradition of excluding OWBs from their subsides program, with your help, we may be able to persuade them to add OWBs to their approved list, Please take the time to search them out and post your experiences with your OWB as well as your thought on fair subsidies!
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Yes
Just want you to know where the money comes from to pay for these grants and subsidies. A few cents is scraped off of everyone's electrical or nat. gas bill every month. That adds up to a very large pot at the end of the year. 💲💲💲💲💲💲💲
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I still find it amusing that these organizations still promote compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFL). While they indeed are more power efficient, they utilize MERCURY for proper functioning. Since your average Joe will not recycle the bulb properly and just throw CFLs into the trash, that Mercury is going to just going to end up in the soil and water.
Brilliant thinking brought to you by the U.S. Federal government and your state and local follower governments. Sad.
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Personally as a farmer I think subsidies should end altogether, especially the farm program. It’s changed a little but the guy thats farming 5000 acres is getting more than the guy thats just starting out and those gov payments just make it harder for the small guy as they usually tend to just drive rents artificially high. If the guy that’s farming 5000 acres can’t make it without those payments then he needs to step aside and give somebody else a chance.
On the other hand, might as well use em while they exist as at least your getting some of your tax dollars back.
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Subsidies=control
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Subsidies=control
That sums it up! :post:
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hey slim i got a question 4 u.my uncle is looking for an indoor boiler and empyre is out of the question.
he would rather have a conventional than a gasser
we live up across the border and people bring up conventionals quite often
my quesion is we looked at one in maine called thermo-control.
on there site the say for sale only for commercial use but u think they would sell if it was going
cross border.we live near newport vt on the qc side.
is there any problems with sale when they leave the state
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Well the EPA regs. say that they can still be manufactured and labeled for residential use provided they are strictly for export.
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I think that instead of state-by-state subsidy programs that taxes individuals only to give back to other individuals a better overall solution would be for everyone to push for a carbon tax. I know tax Is a dirty word to some folks, but this would be a tax on corporate polluters only not on individuals. The way it works is fossil fuel companies that produce coal, oil and natural gas would be taxed at the mine or well according to the amount of carbon dioxide that will be released into the atmosphere upon consumption of these products. But the best part is that 100% of this corporate pollution tax would be returned to taxpayers. No gimmicks, no subsidies just a check once a year for the same amount to every taxpayer in the country whether you are Bill Gates or Jane or Joe average. This would accomplish some very good things. Number one, it will raise the price of fossil fuel and put it on a more equal footing to renewables, including biomass. Consumers could use their pollution tax check to defray the higher cost of fossil fuel or more intelligently to invest in the biomass for heating and hot water, and solar or wind for electricity. This would stimulate manufacturing and create good jobs in the US and Canada. Eventually that pollution check becomes clear profit and disposable income to help stimulate other parts of the economy. Don't forget to spend that extra money locally! :)
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Carbon tax philosophies are stupid.
The "green" windmill farms, solar arrays, etc. cost over 10 times to manufacture relative to its equal internal combustion engine counterparts. Why in the world do you want to punish mines, oilfields, and natural gas companies (i.e. Petroleum producers) for Carbon Dioxide "pollution" by adding yet another tax on these PLENTIFUL resources!??
Can I counterpropose an equal tax credit for AIDING plant life growth with increased carbon dioxide emissions? Believe it or not, increased carbon dioxide levels in our atmosphere contribute a rather small amount to the global warming hoax and actually benefit plant life.
Rant over.
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Well it finally happened, our corrupt government has sent one of it's own to infiltrate this website. It's either that or some one has hypnotized Strawbale Builder. I don't mean to insult you Strawbale but please don't insult me either. How can anyone think that government collecting more taxes can be a good thing. Does anybody think that taxes on corporations/businesses isn't passed down to the consumer? I work for an electric utility, we have had presentations on the carbon tax and it would drive utility rates through the roof. Solar/wind/biomass, do you know why there are subsidies for these? Because they cannot be profitable if forced to stand on their own. Who pushes for wind energy? General electric who makes the turbines that's who! When government collects more taxes they create more levels of bureaucracy and it goes on and on and on until we're $20 trillion in debt and climbing. Who suffers when the price of fossil fuels increase? Middle Americans that's who. Why do you think OPEC is flooding the world oil market, to drive our domestic companies out of business because they know we don't need them anymore.
We are lost as a country if we don't reverse course, follow the wisdom of our founders like Thomas Jefferson and send the worthless piece of c**p we have for a president and the liberal socialists packing.
Other than that I really don't have an opinion on the issue!
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Right on..... Well said
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If I hear carbon footprint one more time I will puke.
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Ok, so here is the way we can all help to end this hyporcracy. First, search out these organizations like our Efficiency Maine program on social media like Facebook, friend them, ( keep your friends close and your enemies closer ) follow them and whenever they use those subsidies to advertise their products, simply ask why it is that they promote one alternative energy over another. Here in Maine, Efficiency Maine has and always will promote pellets and heat pumps, they have never given high efficiency wood boilers a good look! Use that against them! Tell the world on their own advertising that these folks are corrupt, that they pick and choose the winners that they want. If this were not so then why would they not promote a true Zero carbon fuel that has met ALL of the US federal EPA guidelines in just a few short years instead of products like pellets that
Take lots of energy in fuel to produce, harvest, trucking to the mill, drying, grinding, bagging and shipping to your local retailer, can you say CARBON FOOTPRINT.
How about heat pumps, have you ever thought about where and how that electricity was produced or where and how the heat pump was manufactured, no carbon footprint there, nothing to see here folks, move along!
Outdoor Wood Boilers
Manufactured right here in North America under strict EPA guidelines
Zero Carbon fuel that you cut from your own land or purchase from a neighbor.
Cordwood gives off exactly the same amount of carbon rather it rots in your woods or you burn it in your stove.
You control your own heating cost by choosing how you get your fuel and who from!
These are but a few of the truths that we can infiltrate their advertising with to educate the consumer, I would welcome any more thoughts or ideas, I'm on Facebook, Richard Emmons, friend me on there and let's get these SOBs
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The last thing this country needs is higher energy costs with manufacturing jobs still leaving the country in search of cheaper labor and energy.
Latest rumors spreading on the farm forums is the EPA will next make reman kits illegal to manufacture here or import for older engines that do not meet emissions standards. I have an entire fleet of tractors that would quickly become scrap metal if the engine bites it. Some of these are actual heirlooms as they have been in the family for generations. They all are still used and much to the chagrin of local shops they all can be repaired easily in our shop without needing a laptop and $5000 worth of diagnostic software.
I’d have 13 tractors that would need replaced, not to mention three in the process of being restored that would be junk. I’ve priced a new one out at AGCO’s tractor builder site, the one I quit when I got over $300,000 and wasn’t done yet and that tractor wouldn’t even replace our big four wheel drive.
If something like that would happen it would be the governments way to make sure only the big can survive while the small family farm is left begging for scraps.
Carbon credits, renewable energy, etc etc is just the governments way to get even more people on the government tit as it’s all subsidized in some way, shape or form.
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Wow tough crowd, LOL. No, I am not a government agent just someone who thought I could express my opinions as freely as everyone else. I'm on the forum to learn and to maybe help a few folks along the way with my experience in outdoor wood boilers and renewable energy. Personally, I don't believe the government should subsidize anything, let the market determine winners and losers. But facts are facts and fossil fuel companies are one of the biggest recipients of government subsidies and that's one of the reasons renewables have not competed as well as they should. Follow the lobbyists and the money and you'll see who really owns our government, not the people, Thomas Jefferson would be appalled. In spite of this, the cost of renewables has come down substantially in recent years. A couple years ago the CEO of XL Energy gave a speech in Denver, Colorado, in which he stated electricity generated from commercial scale wind turbines is now cheaper and more reliable than coal or natural gas, quite a statement from the CEO of a major electric utility. Keywords here are cheaper and reliable because over the years renewables have been given a bad rap on both counts. If done properly 100% of a carbon tax on fossil fuel companies would be returned to taxpayers. This is not a liberal idea and it is gaining momentum across the political spectrum from far right to far left. I have been following energy issues for years and my personal opinion is a carbon tax is coming. Would you rather have the government spend the money or would you rather have 100% of it returned to the taxpayers to defray the higher cost of fossil fuel? Hard-working folks like us on this forum are paying taxes to subsidize some of the biggest corporations in the world, then in many cases we pay again to clean up their mess, then we pay again at the pump or the meter. Talk about a rigged system. Fossil fuel companies hate renewable energy because it makes people energy independent and cuts them out of the loop, they don't like it when we take their hands out of our pockets. Power to the people. That is my friendly rant :)
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Sorry, did not mean to post that twice, I am new at this.
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If done properly 100% of a carbon tax on fossil fuel companies would be returned to taxpayers.
Ayuh,.... Just who do you think is gonna be payin' this tax at the wellhead,..??
We Will,.... The suppliers simply past the added cost down the line,....
'n yer just plain ole Crazy to think the government will collect Billions, 'n just give it back to the taxpayers,....
Never Happen,....
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911 !!! , another tax !!! Fthat ! I can spend my money better than any gooberment u can chit .....bar none!
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I think that instead of state-by-state subsidy programs that taxes individuals only to give back to other individuals a better overall solution would be for everyone to push for a carbon tax. I know tax Is a dirty word to some folks, but this would be a tax on corporate polluters only not on individuals. The way it works is fossil fuel companies that produce coal, oil and natural gas would be taxed at the mine or well according to the amount of carbon dioxide that will be released into the atmosphere upon consumption of these products. But the best part is that 100% of this corporate pollution tax would be returned to taxpayers. No gimmicks, no subsidies just a check once a year for the same amount to every taxpayer in the country whether you are Bill Gates or Jane or Joe average. This would accomplish some very good things. Number one, it will raise the price of fossil fuel and put it on a more equal footing to renewables, including biomass. Consumers could use their pollution tax check to defray the higher cost of fossil fuel or more intelligently to invest in the biomass for heating and hot water, and solar or wind for electricity. This would stimulate manufacturing and create good jobs in the US and Canada. Eventually that pollution check becomes clear profit and disposable income to help stimulate other parts of the economy. Don't forget to spend that extra money locally! :)
Wondering if that would work like the social security lock box?
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Kind of interesting that most countries that are heavy into renewables and green energy pay far more for their “green” electricity than we do.
Thinking our cousins in the UK pay about three times as much for a kilowatt of electric than we do. Of course lets not even bring up the $7 a gallon gas over there.
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I can vouch that strawbale builder is no spy. Let's have respectful dialogues with those you disagree with. This site has been very useful to so many, and it's almost always been civil if not friendly.
Just my 2 cents.
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I think I also can vouch for Strawbale not being a spy, how have you been Dave? It's been a long time coming to get you posting on here. Guys if he's who I think he is, he's a great guy that is very motivated, a bit soft in the squash for trusting his government in many aspects and he knows how it works, it's our job to nicely educate him on the terrors of an all controlling government and once we do he will be a VERY valuable asset to the forum. He has thick skin and can take a great argument but it will take a great argument to sway him from his liberal tendencies.
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I suspect I know strawbale Dave also, he will have plenty of useful info.
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Thanks agriffinjd and slimjim. Yes Slim this is your old buddy Dave from WI, I originally posted because I could hardly believe my libertarian friend was calling for government subsidies :) Still remember the time you joined me at the Barron County fair in WI. I was burning the Enviro 500 with 50% moisture white ash wood chips, I had it going good but you fine tuned it so the flame was roaring right out the door, the sheriff came by and nicely asked if we could back it down a bit. Quite a sight at night. Still have the video. Hope all is well with you and yours.
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Thanks Supper44!
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Thanks agriffinjd and slimjim. Yes Slim this is your old buddy Dave from WI, I originally posted because I could hardly believe my libertarian friend was calling for government subsidies :) Still remember the time you joined me at the Barron County fair in WI. I was burning the Enviro 500 with 50% moisture white ash wood chips, I had it going good but you fine tuned it so the flame was roaring right out the door, the sheriff came by and nicely asked if we could back it down a bit. Quite a sight at night. Still have the video. Hope all is well with you and yours.
I figured that was you Dave.
I bought my P&M boiler from Dave last year. Great guy to do business with. I know at the time Slimjim was wanting him to be on this site, then once he got on he got flamed! I hope he stays on and keeps contributing because he has been a great help on a couple of my own issues I had with my stove as I began to learn it last year.
Andy
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Thanks for the kind words Andy. How is the snow in the UP? Not much here, most snowmobile trails are not open yet. If you need anything you know where to find me.
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Oh no Dave I'm not looking for subsidies, I would rather they disappear all together BUT we both know that ain't happening so we should absolutely be allowed to participate, Welcome Aboard my demented friend!
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Oh no Dave I'm not looking for subsidies, I would rather they disappear all together BUT we both know that ain't happening so we should absolutely be allowed to participate, Welcome Aboard my demented friend!
Exactly, either subsidize all or none instead of picking winners and losers.
You look at the EPA charts and the G100 and G200 are cleaner than a few of the pellet burners out there.
Not sure about a few, but I’m not a huge fan of corn burners at all, market is too variable for starters and if a homeowner buys one back when corn was $2/bushel they sure couldn’t afford to run it when corn hit $8/bushel. I personally know of two by Woodmaster that have sat idle for years now. Then there is the moral issue of burning food for heat when there are better options.
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Welcome Strawbale, if you're from Wisconsin you can't be all bad, me too. I guess I should have added LOL after the government spy line. You must have way more trust in government though than I do because I know I have to be much more frugal with my money than government is with it. A tax is a tax is a tax and all government does is grow itself from our money.
Can anyone imagine the benefits of getting government out of our lives? For now we can only dream and VOTE!
GOD BLESS AMERICA
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^^^^ :post:
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Thanks schoppy, my point is that a carbon will most likely happen in the
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Darn computer, Thanks schoppy, my point is that a carbon tax is very likely to happen in the US and other countries within the next decade, even many industries are calling for one and there are several models. Government keeps all, government keeps some or government returns all to the taxpayer to defray the higher cost of fossil fuels. If and when it comes I hope everyone fights for the latter.
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Darn computer, Thanks schoppy, my point is that a carbon tax is very likely to happen in the US and other countries within the next decade, even many industries are calling for one and there are several models. Government keeps all, government keeps some or government returns all to the taxpayer to defray the higher cost of fossil fuels. If and when it comes I hope everyone fights for the latter.
Good luck on that.
WE have a temporary wheel tax in our county to help with road maintenance. Roads are worse than ever and it’s been a “temporary” tax for over a decade now.
Our local toll road was supposed to be free once the tolls paid for it, it’s been around longer than I have and is still a toll road.
Monsanto was supposed to drop their “tech” fee once the research on RR beans was paid for, tech fee is still there.
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No wonder they say the only things certain in this world are death and taxes. It is crazy we put up with the stinking politicians we have. We expect and accept more and more of our earnings to be taken away from us by fools who couldn't run a lemonade stand.
I hope we elect a leader who does love this country instead of despising and wanting to destroy it and then cleans house in all areas of government.