Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: mlappin on January 30, 2016, 08:24:42 AM
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So almost done with the basement replumbing, all 1” copper, primary/secondary loops, one 20 plate for the DHW and another flat plate for the snowmelt, secondary loop to the furnace and back, and several T’s that are capped off for future radiant or baseboards, used almost 80 foot of pipe and untold fittings, have T’s with temp gauges in strategic spots to measure heat load, lots and lots and lots of joints to sweat.
So was wondering if anybody has ever used the Propress copper fittings and are they worth the extra cost, from what I seen anywhere from a few dollars more per fitting to twice as much per fitting plus the cost of the tool.
A few distinct advantages I see is no risk of fire from a propane torch or messing with flux constantly, one drawback I see unless they make a tool for it is you need to remove the little burr on the outside of the pipe that a pipe cutter usually leaves, I’m guessing a file.
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You should remove that burr even if sweating the pipes. I usually use a fine half round file to get the inside and outside burrs off. Sandpaper also works.
I have a friend who works at a large facility doing HVAC work. They have the battery powered ProPress tools for doing copper fittings up to like 3" or so. When he had some plumbing to do in his house, he brought a tool home and did everything with ProPress instead of sweating. The installation was top notch and beautiful. The tools are expensive, but quick and neat. If I remember correctly, the fittings have rubber in them, so long term I suppose they could break down, but I'm not sure about that. I suspect they'd last just as long as a soldered joint before breaking down.
A big advantage I see with ProPress is that if you're using new shiny copper, you don't need to still clean it up with emery cloth prior putting the fitting on like you do with sweating.
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Actually I still wonder about an external reamer of some sort to get a slight taper on the outside so it would slide together every time with no danger of knicking the O-ring.
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Never mind, the pressing tools start around $1800 and up.
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Just sweat it; if any leaks, re-sweat it; no sweat! ;D
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Just sweat it; if any leaks, re-sweat it; no sweat! ;D
Oh I know, just wondered how much faster the Pro press is though, and the lack of fire can be somewhat appealing.
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Only ones I know using Propress are contractors and they also use it for gas piping. The gas Propress fittings have a high temp o-ring in them and have been approved by the National Fuel Gas Code.
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I had a Vega salesman stop by about 2 months ago trying to sell me on the idea because it speeds up the installation, he says that the price of fittings and tools would pay for itself in a short time. Let's see, first I work by the hour, I'm proud of what I create with copper and sweat joints, I'm equipped with many thousands of dollars in copper sweat fittings that would all be useless if I made a switch, I personally think they are ugly, they cannot be taken apart and reused, they are far more expensive, the tool was around $3000. Needless to say, he did not make the sale!
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Let's see, first I work by the hour, I'm proud of what I create with copper and sweat joints, I'm equipped with many thousands of dollars in copper sweat fittings that would all be useless if I made a switch
Amen, it does look nice when finished. I’ve already caught the wife just looking at what I’ve gotten done so far in the basement replumb.
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For plumbers and other industry people who plumb copper often, Propress is faster for sure. Think of the company owner trying to get the edge on profits...he equips his guys on several vans with those tools and fittings. The guys on the vans get the jobs done faster with fewer leaks/repairs required and they don't set any houses on fire either. The company owner doesn't get paid by the hour, but by successful completion of as many jobs as possible. Up front, he spends a lot of money (business write off), but long-term he makes more.
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Right, but you need to be doing enough jobs a year that it will pay for itself eventually.
Maybe a single person doing a few jobs a month it might pay if your liability insurance dropped a ton for eliminating the possibility of a fire from the process.
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I don't know if I buy the whole idea yet. One of my plumbers has started using this system on our jobs. Not sure about relying on an o-ring when it is being heated and cooled often over years? Faster - yes. Pretty - no.
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I don't know if I buy the whole idea yet. One of my plumbers has started using this system on our jobs. Not sure about relying on an o-ring when it is being heated and cooled often over years? Faster - yes. Pretty - no.
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Depends on the quality of the o-rings, as long as they are better than the ones they used to use on the space shuttle should also a long time.
I grew up with Olivers on the farm, had to change a o-ring on a hydraulic fitting that I never even knew was there, so yah o-rings can last a long time.