Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: bflanary on November 04, 2016, 08:00:44 PM
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Hi All,
Wanted to get some input from folks with much more experience than I have.
I am replacing a Hardy H2 that was damaged by a storm that hit my property.
I'm considering a G200 and C250. My property is all mature hardwood and with the storm we had, I have firewood for years. I am rebuilding my 24'x24' pole shed that I part my tractor, mower under and the rest is used to provide covered roof for my stacked firewood.
I'd like your thoughts as well as how to deal with the plumbing. I currently have 4x3/4" insulated PEX in 6" schedule 40 under the ground to my crawlspace and have drawn out and attached a couple of plumbing options I like some feedback on as well.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or other questions I can try to answer.
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I would go for the G200. Unless you are in Canada, you can't legally burn wood in the C250.
If the insulation is decent on the existing lines and you were able to heat the house ok before, I would parallel the lines and connect like second picture. You should get similar flow to 1" lines doing that.
If you do have a lot of heat loss, I would just replace them with larger insulated pex.
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You need full 1" flow going to the water heater flat plate. Need to get rid of that manifold and parallel the lines as RSI has noted. Also if you are going with the G200 you can use the recirc pump already no the stove and add a flat plate and hook up your stove just like your hardy, only thing is you will only burn half the wood. I think a G100 would probably do the job, unless the Hardy was not large enough.
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Thank you both for the responses, I'm not familiar with paralleling the lines, I'm guessing your talking about using a connector to use 2 of the lines as supply and 2 as return underground?
Can you clarify what that means...also, if that is the case, 1 of the current 4, 3/4" lines is cold water supply for auto-fill for the old Hardy H2, so I may need to dig it all out and install all new 1" PEX and a supply line anyway, its still just not lear to me.
Any other pointers are appreciated and thanks again. If I have to go with new 1" PEX, any thoughts on insulated badger? or would z-supply or Thermopex be much better?
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If going with a wrapped product I’d only install the Performaflex XT from Z-Supply, its good stuff and when ever possible its all sourced from the good ole USA, then North America if not the USA.
If using a urethane product then install Logstor for the larger line size and a extremely tough product. I have a few pieces of it floating around yet, I’m going to lay a piece in the driveway and run over it with a semi…
You won’t need a fill line out to the stove, if you want to be able to top it off from outside, install a 120volt solenoid and a double back flow preventer from your domestic to your boiler loop, run an extra wire from the stove back to the solenoid and grab a common neutral and good to go.
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You could also T in to the return line going out to the OWB for a fill. Install a valve inside your house and your set. Only draw back is that you may not be able to see you water level indicator from where the valve is located.
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If it you were able to heat the house ok before, you can do like shepherd boy suggested and keep the fill valve at the stove.
Z-supply is good stuff. The Performaflex Ultra is usually not a problem if you bury it properly. If your 6" PVC is straight, you could possible pull a regular performaflex through it. No need for the XT if it is inside another pipe.
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All good comments. We like Z-supply for most installs. Put water fill in house.All good advice.
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I have the c250. Very simple unit. Burns anything. I think it may be less problematic. I like it. And come on with the not allowed burning wood in the states. I've never seen this law in ohio
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I have the c250. Very simple unit. Burns anything. I think it may be less problematic. I like it. And come on with the not allowed burning wood in the states. I've never seen this law in ohio
Federal law, burning wood in a C series voids the warranty as it’s approved to be sold as a coal only unit, least thats how I understood it.
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I bought mine before all of this talk an I got it to burn wood and heatmaster kno's I'm burning wood. I would sure want to hear any other info from heatmaster
*******@heatmasterss.com, guys name is Ryan. I would ask him.
Another thing I would like to add is my c250 smoke very very little. I try to burn seasoned wood but I often mix green soft woods. Only a wisp of smoke comes out when it's not running and blows a little for the first 1 minute it runs on the first couple cycles after fill up, then it turns clear. I have a lot of neighbors with Hardys and there stoves smoke like freight trains by comparison
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When did you buy it, I think Jan. 15 2016 the new rules went in, anything bought before that would be grandfathered.
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I think the mfg date is more important. May 15th 2015 was cutoff and when it became a problem using a coal stove to burn wood.
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I think a email to heatmaster would give the most acurrate anwsers. There are a lot of "I think".
I would like to add, if burning wood on new models voided a warranty I would not buy a new c250. If it didn't effect the warranty and was just not suppose to, I wouldn't care but that's my outlaw attitude. I'll email heatmaster myself and get back with you all.
Also like to add to the people that say the president doesn't reall have much power I say, they nominate judicial judges, choose attorney generals-head law enforcement officers and most importantly to me they choose lead officials of the EPA. In our current case of our Obama appointment liberal EPA, the crazy regulations have me laid off from my good job at a steel mill, over 100 other people in my town laid off from local bearing making factory with average wage $22/Hr cause there bread and butter is railcars bearings, and no coal equals less railcars hauling, and also it's been 4-5 years ago but the aep power plant in my county closed down and has recently been demo'd, cause they couldn't afford the EPA upgrades in the short amount of time they were given to do it. The liberal EPA, that same people that down all of this to my little county are the same making crazy regs about wood burners. Commie nazis I say.
Let's bite the bullets tomorrow and vote trump to keep the lifelong coruption of clintons out, and lighten up the EPA regs and get people back to work and get some of our freedoms back.
And hey I voted Rand Paul all the way. So for u Gary Johnson voters , don't waste a vote, plz. He just can't win. If we want a libertarian wait till next cycle and get behind Rand or someone that could win. I'm no big trump fan but imma do what I can to keep Killary out of the whitehouse
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Hey Jared,
Thanks for the questions. Any furnace built after May 15 2015 or sold after
December 31 2015 and installed on a residential building must meet EPA
regulations as per the federal law in the USA.
So currently a customer would not be legally allowed to buy a C series and
burn wood in it if it is connected to a residential building (commercial
buildings are exempt). If the furnace was purchased before December 31
2015, it is grandfathered in and can legally burn wood.
The EPA regulations require that we have to state in the owner's manual that
warranty can be voided by burning improper fuels in them. How we approach
it in real life if it ever happens is a bit different as we want to stand
behind our customers as much as we can.
Does that make sense?
Let me know if you need anything else.
Ryan
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That's one thing great about Heatmaster. It takes no time at all for them to answer questions. That being said. I would use that info to make a decision. The g series would be the safer bet I guess. Depends a lot on wear u live, I don't Kno that legally the EPA could go onto your property to check inside your stove without a warrant. I don't Kno. I like being able to burn different things in my stove. Wet wood, huge rounds I can vary lift that aren't spilt, corn stocks, bean bushes. Old flowers, coal. Whatever. EPA sucks
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I think a email to heatmaster would give the most acurrate anwsers. There are a lot of "I think".
I would like to add, if burning wood on new models voided a warranty I would not buy a new c250. If it didn't effect the warranty and was just not suppose to, I wouldn't care but that's my outlaw attitude. I'll email heatmaster myself and get back with you all.
Also like to add to the people that say the president doesn't reall have much power I say, they nominate judicial judges, choose attorney generals-head law enforcement officers and most importantly to me they choose lead officials of the EPA. In our current case of our Obama appointment liberal EPA, the crazy regulations have me laid off from my good job at a steel mill, over 100 other people in my town laid off from local bearing making factory with average wage $22/Hr cause there bread and butter is railcars bearings, and no coal equals less railcars hauling, and also it's been 4-5 years ago but the aep power plant in my county closed down and has recently been demo'd, cause they couldn't afford the EPA upgrades in the short amount of time they were given to do it. The liberal EPA, that same people that down all of this to my little county are the same making crazy regs about wood burners. Commie nazis I say.
Let's bite the bullets tomorrow and vote trump to keep the lifelong coruption of clintons out, and lighten up the EPA regs and get people back to work and get some of our freedoms back.
And hey I voted Rand Paul all the way. So for u Gary Johnson voters , don't waste a vote, plz. He just can't win. If we want a libertarian wait till next cycle and get behind Rand or someone that could win. I'm no big trump fan but imma do what I can to keep Killary out of the whitehouse
Shame we are not neighbors, we'd get along really good.
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Let's bite the bullets tomorrow and vote trump to keep the lifelong coruption of clintons out, and lighten up the EPA regs and get people back to work and get some of our freedoms back.
And hey I voted Rand Paul all the way. So for u Gary Johnson voters , don't waste a vote, plz. He just can't win. If we want a libertarian wait till next cycle and get behind Rand or someone that could win. I'm no big trump fan but imma do what I can to keep Killary out of the whitehouse
I must respectfully disagree, saying someones vote is wasted is the same as saying their opinion doesn’t matter.
This country didn’t all of a sudden start to swirl around the drain. It took decades of voters selecting the lesser of two evils even though a vote for the lesser evil is still a vote for evil. Neither major party will change as long as they remain mostly unchallenged, if a third party took enough votes, maybe they’d actually start to pay attention to their constituents.
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Tuesday night and Wednesday will be interesting!
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That is why I voted for Rand Paul in the primaries. He learned from his father Independent gets you no where, he is a libatarian that's runs republican cause they are the closet to his conservative and freedom values. And as far as Gary Johnson goes he isn't that great and if he got the same spotlight as the other two he would prolly get plenty of dirt on him as well. If the USA wants better canidate then we should rally behind more people getting involved in the primaries. Trump was the only person really heard of. I'd ask all my coworkers about the candidates and no one knew anyone running but trump or Cruz. The good candidates they have to choose from gets shadowed by the media. Anyways. Where getting off topic
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Alright all, I guess I will be replacing the current PEX as I've decided to go with with HeatMaster C250 and the dealer does not want it under a roof, so I'll stick the front under the edge of a roof and the rest outside.
I've attached 2 more drawings for possible plumbing, the 2nd picture would be cheapest with only 1 run of 1" underground.
Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions and thank again.
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One set of 1" lines will do everything you need. That is a basic drawing but I would add a few controls to make it more user friendly.
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Is your 6” PVC a straight shot? If not you will play hell getting Logstor thru it. If you need the flow Logstor offers then go with the 1 1/4” from Z-supply, will still be cheaper then Logstor is and a lot more user friendly to install.
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One set of 1" lines will do everything you need. That is a basic drawing but I would add a few controls to make it more user friendly.
Thanks, can you let me know your suggestions for controls?
Thanks in advance.
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Is your 6” PVC a straight shot? If not you will play hell getting Logstor thru it. If you need the flow Logstor offers then go with the 1 1/4” from Z-supply, will still be cheaper then Logstor is and a lot more user friendly to install.
Thank you, it's straight except where it comes up through to the crawlspace and up through concrete slab.
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Where your bypass is at your water to air coil, I'd put in a 3way zone valve or a secondary pump loop hooked to a secondary t-stat. Where you are at in the south you have hot and cool spells and you can switch from heat to cool at the stat rather than switching manual valves. Also if you are going with the C250 remember they have a triple bypass in the top and will smoke out the door when loading. I'd keep the stove back away from building to let it get away and not smoke up your building. Just something that comes with being more efficient.
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As soon as trump gets in, he'll get rid of all those illegal executive actions of Obama and convention wood burners will be legal again id say
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Where your bypass is at your water to air coil, I'd put in a 3way zone valve or a secondary pump loop hooked to a secondary t-stat. Where you are at in the south you have hot and cool spells and you can switch from heat to cool at the stat rather than switching manual valves. Also if you are going with the C250 remember they have a triple bypass in the top and will smoke out the door when loading. I'd keep the stove back away from building to let it get away and not smoke up your building. Just something that comes with being more efficient.
Thanks for the feedback.