Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: schoppy on November 24, 2016, 10:00:35 PM
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Well I have had my new G200 up and running now for a couple of weeks. Everything is going pretty well except I can't get my loading door to seal well enough to prevent tarry condensate from dripping down the front onto to damper actuator cover and run down over the lower clean out door. I have adjusted it 4 times and no luck yet. There seems to be an indented spot on the lower door gasket where most of the dripping is coming from, almost like the gasket isn't as thick under the silicone.
I keep cleaning up the mess but unfortunately the lower door seems to be permanently stained now. The door seems to be a little to high as the sealing edge is right at the bottom of the gasket at the bottom of the door. I may try making a spacer between the hinges to lower the door about 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch which would center the sealing edges in the gasket better.
I have had some issues with the unit going out due to warm weather and wood bridging over the center slot. I am hoping when the ash bed gets built up better this will stop.
Any suggestions on getting the loading door to seal other than what I mentioned?
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I know exactly what you are talking about schoppy, I just went through it myself with my 400, the hinges are difficult to adjust with the weight of the door on it! Because I'm such a life hack, here is my solution.
Start by wrapping a long ratchet strap through the door handle and completely around the boiler (use cardboard or rags to keep from scratching the paint with the metal portions of the stap) hook the ends of the strap together and loosely tighten the strap, place a small car scissor jack between the door and strap
( again use a softener) tighten the screw jack a bit so it will put pressure on the door inwards, now loosen the 4- 9/16 nuts that adjust the hinge side of the door, you should see the hinge adjustments move, unlatch the latch side and center the door on the jamb now take a few more turns on the screw jack, this will force the door onto the jamb, adjust your hinge and tighten them, dismantle the hack and move over to the latch side of the door. The latch side is a 3/4 inch acorn nut on each,loosen them and tap the bolts inward about 1/8 inch at a time, re tighten and try the latches, they should be tight enough to show some resistance without being hard to operate. With the doors all closed and the bypass open, fan operating you should not be able to hear any leakage around the door gasket. You will still have some residual liquid in the gasket that will drip out when the door is operated but it will subside and dry up after using the door a few times. The guys at the office can get you some spray bombs of the original color or if I have a chance perhaps I can find the paint color codes that I got from NAPA to paint the bus, it is an almost perfect match, best of luck and let us know how you make out!
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Gents, if you have a dollar general where you live, go there and buy some cleaner called LAs totally awesome cleaner. It's $1 and is the best product I have found to clean creosote off of the furnace. It works wonders on the painted surfaces of a G series. I'm sure you can find it online also.
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I have the door leak problem this year, need to get it tightened up. Had quite the drips of creosote down the side under the door. I picked up some Purple Power. As soon as the purple power hit the creosote it totally dissolved. You would never know it had any creosote on it now. I tried using engine degreaser first, that didnt touch it at all.
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I have another way to tighten the hinge side of the door, if I get a chance I’ll snap a few pictures.
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I had a few mins today. What I did was use a mechanical pencil to draw a fine line on the door side of the hinge mounts so I knew where I started. Then I left the door latched and loosened the hinge side bolts. Then I leaned on the door as hard as I could, made sure the pencil line was even and the door side hinge mounts were further in then originally. I then retightened the bolts. I then opened the door and loosened the acorn nuts on the latch side roller bearings. I gently tapped them in slightly towards the back of the stove then retightened. I will give it a day and see if it fixed it. I did have a couple small leaks of creosote closer to the hinge side after, I am waiting to see if they were just residual from squeezing the gasket like Richard said. If it didn't fix it I'll try Richards method.
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Thanks Slim and that would be a great way to do it but as you can see from the attached picture of my installation (if it goes through), I can't do it that way. I did not realize the roller bearing at the latch end was adjustable. A little more info in the manual on door adjustment procedure would have been nice. I had my son-in-law help me today and it seems good now but we will give it a couple of days and see. I did make an 1/8 inch shim to go between the hinges as my door was not centered in the gasket and needed to be lowered a little.
Yes, the purple power works great but beware it takes off the decal coloring and paint if left on too long or used too often in the same place. Also the grey door color stains and will not come out with anything I know of.
Door is centered now and fitting good and snug so hopefully the leaks will stop on the front. I did have a couple creosote streaks down the back also which may be attributed to leaks on the front door. I snugged up all the locking bolts and cleaned up the streaks so hopefully that takes care of it. Seems like the bottom of the venter access panel should have more than one locking tab. I'm sure this warm weather doesn't help either. I did make a rain cap, sort of like a tin man cap and have it plenty high so as not to restrict venting since we have been getting so much rain with another inch expected latter this week.
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Schoppy, Please tell me that the siding is metal and that the sills on the inside are fire protected, not that the stove itself will set the wood ablaze but the ashes and coal during cleaning can. Please use caution folks and maintain common sense guidelines for clearances for combustibles!
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Not my first rodeo Slim. Only thing flammable in the entire shed, inside or out, is the firewood. Don't want to have mother load it in inclement weather. Still dripping some out the front but may have been in the gasket like you said earlier.
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Has anyone experienced leaking from the lower door handle bolt on the loading door of their G200? Even with the change in the cycle timing the unit has gone out a couple more times. Even though the gasket is evenly spaced now I am getting dripping off the lower door handle bolt. The loading door locks pretty firm and I wouldn't want to adjust it any tighter. It almost looks like the gasket isn't as thick by the lower bolt as the rest of the areas. Any ideas?
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Sounds like you need to lay some more evenly spread silicone on the area that you think is thin on gasket. As far as the boiler going out and bridging tell us about your wood quality, size of splits and stacking technique when filling the boiler.
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For fire going out.
Have at least one teenage daughter who plays sports, your washing machine will run constantly, dishwasher runs once a day, and up too three showers per day.
Problem solved!
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I think you are right hondaracer on the gasket but I don't want to shut it down for a full day at least to allow the silicone to fully cure.
All of my wood is red oak at 15 to 20% moisture. I have everything from 2" diameter to 8" diameter and split chunks are all pretty good size. I try to put down some smaller pieces over the coals before putting in the bigger pieces in and then some smaller pieces on top. Little cooler and windy today and had a good bed of coals when I checked it 12 hours after loading about a 1/3 load this morning. We are supposed to get some good cold weather next week
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Hit post too soon. I am curious to see if the cold weather eliminates the dripping from the door. Otherwise the G200 is running a lot cleaner than my G400 did as I am sure Slimjim was right on the G400 being way over sized.
Coolidge you hit the nail on the head with teenage daughters. They don't even have to be in sports to take hour long showers which turn the bath room into a tropical rain forest. She loves the endless HOT water too.
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To adjust the door, loosen the two nuts on one hinge, take a large open end wrench or something similar and stick the top jaw in and push towards the door till it is in the position you want. You will probably be able to easily see where it was once it moves.
Retighten the nuts and then do the same with the other hinge.
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To adjust the door, loosen the two nuts on one hinge, take a large open end wrench or something similar and stick the top jaw in and push towards the door till it is in the position you want. You will probably be able to easily see where it was once it moves.
Retighten the nuts and then do the same with the other hinge.
:post:
I use one of these instead with a piece of cardboard or something else behind it to avoid marring the finish.
However if you don’t have something similar I can see RSI’s big open end wrench working equally as well.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/1/774/30769069053_eeb6e8f6d5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NSXwfz)IMG_1834 (https://flic.kr/p/NSXwfz) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr
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Even after adjusting it and putting in shims to get the door centered in the gasket, it still leaks at the lower door handle bolt. The door is contacting the gasket at all places but there seems to be less gasket or silicone on the bottom at the hinge bolt, about a 4-5 inch section. There are two slits in the silicone at the lower door hinge bolt, one above and one below the bolt but the gasket appears to be contacting the gasket. Not sure if it could be getting through these slits or how?
Running it hard does not stop the dripping. Probably going to have to replace the gasket but hard to do in the middle of heating season especially with a polar vortex coming later this week. Highs in single digits and lows near 10 below.
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I seem to be in the same boat this year. I have played with adjustment 3 or 4 times now. Can't get that thing to stop. Last year not one drip.
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Do you have much buildup on the door flange? I wonder if it pools up at the door and the comes out when it is opened.
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To adjust the door, loosen the two nuts on one hinge, take a large open end wrench or something similar and stick the top jaw in and push towards the door till it is in the position you want. You will probably be able to easily see where it was once it moves.
Retighten the nuts and then do the same with the other hinge.
:post:
I use one of these instead with a piece of cardboard or something else behind it to avoid marring the finish.
However if you don’t have something similar I can see RSI’s big open end wrench working equally as well.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/1/774/30769069053_eeb6e8f6d5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NSXwfz)IMG_1834 (https://flic.kr/p/NSXwfz) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr
What is that thing? It is funny that the head of it is almost the exact shape as the top jaw of an open end wrench.
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I am not sure what it is called but I have one of those tools. I used it today to try to adjust again. I have cleaned the flange around the opening on the stove. I looked at the door where it was leaking at three spots toward the center of the door. One spot the chalking on the gasket was pulled away a little from the bottom of the door and looked like the it was leaking from inside the gasket. The other two spots it looked like the stuff simply made its way right past the gasket.
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What is that thing? It is funny that the head of it is almost the exact shape as the top jaw of an open end wrench.
No ideal, picked it up at an auction in a box of “stuff”, the other end has a long taper for aligning bolt holes, most likely something a millwright or ironworker would use.
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I have one also, mine is just a pry bar about 15 inches long and pointed on the other end as mlappin said.
My leak is definitely coming from the handle bolt itself as I clean the actuator cover and before opening the door it has dripped down on the cover every day. The door gasket is contacting the sealing edge very firmly but it must be going around the gasket through the slits in the silicone at the door hinge bolt above and below the sealing edge.
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Read through this thread several times now trying to understand precisely what it is you guys are actually adjusting when you "Adjust the door".
I have the same leakage problems as you all describe - creosote dripping down the front of the furnace - except mine has now developed a smoking "swoosh" every 3-4 minutes. The attached a video shows what is happening but for those who cannot view the file (Windows Media Player works for me at least), smoke is intermittently bursting out of the bottom left corner of the front door, making this noise like a steam engine letting of pressure. Effectively it is, I guess.
So adjusting the door seems like a good thing but I haven't attempted it because I cannot tell what I am trying to adjust it to? How do I know if/when I have it set correctly? I could see the hinge bolts may allow some door sagging over time but the latch bolts appear to be welded in to the door flange with no room to "Tap" backwards - even 1/8 inch?
Clearly, I am not "getting it" so, with apologies for being such a dumbass, any clarification you all can offer would be greatly appreciated
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The bolts that hold the door latch rollers are in slotted holes, those what are adjusted on the latch side.
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Read through this thread several times now trying to understand precisely what it is you guys are actually adjusting when you "Adjust the door".
I have the same leakage problems as you all describe - creosote dripping down the front of the furnace - except mine has now developed a smoking "swoosh" every 3-4 minutes. The attached a video shows what is happening but for those who cannot view the file (Windows Media Player works for me at least), smoke is intermittently bursting out of the bottom left corner of the front door, making this noise like a steam engine letting of pressure. Effectively it is, I guess.
So adjusting the door seems like a good thing but I haven't attempted it because I cannot tell what I am trying to adjust it to? How do I know if/when I have it set correctly? I could see the hinge bolts may allow some door sagging over time but the latch bolts appear to be welded in to the door flange with no room to "Tap" backwards - even 1/8 inch?
Clearly, I am not "getting it" so, with apologies for being such a dumbass, any clarification you all can offer would be greatly appreciated
Is it always doing that or only every now and then? If it is always doing it, I think you have two different problems. You need to tighten the door on the latch side by moving the rollers in like Mlappin said. I would move them in a little and try the door and move more if needed. If you need to adjust the hinge side, loosen the two nuts on one hinge at a time and pry door in as mentioned earlier then tighten. Just move a little and work your way around so one corner doesn't get too tight.
The "swoosh" may be an air flow problem. If it is still there after getting the door sealed, make sure the air intake disc under the cover on the front is working properly.
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Always known that tool as a heal bar. My g-200 seems to be dripping a little from the hinge side of the lower door . I am going to leave it alone , cleaned the gasket as always and I'll see if it stops. Didn't do it last season.
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I would tighten it if it is leaking. It is real easy. It seems odd that you are getting dripping from the lower door. Are you sure it isn't dripping down from the top door?
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That is where I expected to see it coming from but is a very small amount on the slab and not on anything under the top door. Suprised to see it at all boiler is really kept pretty clean.
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Thanks chaps...
On closer inspection, and after more assiduous creosote scraping, I discovered the latch bolts are, as mlappin pointed out, bolts that can indeed be adjusted. So, for now, I have adjusted the bottom latch bolt inwards slightly to improve the seal.
Then, thanks to AirForcePOL, I cleaned off the front off the furnace with LAs Totally Awesome cleaner - "Awesome " is exactly right - then checked the boiler every 12 hrs or so, to see if the leaking stopped - so far it has! Magic!
I also talked to my local dealer about the "Smokin' Swoosh" - she did some research and came up with this response from the oracle... "Yes, I've had mine do that too if it is loaded up with dry "baked" wood and the nozzle is a little choked. The wood gas ignites sporadically and "chuffs". And the baked wood gasifies very quickly and floods the nozzle with wood gas. Usually digging a small hole through the coal bed with poker will send an even steady amount of wood gas / oxygen into the horseshoe brick." Who'd have thunk it?
So, as RSI suggested, this was, in fact, two separate problems and the poor door seal at bottom latch was simply highlighting it.
You guys rock!
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I also talked to my local dealer about the "Smokin' Swoosh" - she did some research and came up with this response from the oracle... "Yes, I've had mine do that too if it is loaded up with dry "baked" wood and the nozzle is a little choked. The wood gas ignites sporadically and "chuffs". And the baked wood gasifies very quickly and floods the nozzle with wood gas. Usually digging a small hole through the coal bed with poker will send an even steady amount of wood gas / oxygen into the horseshoe brick." Who'd have thunk it?
So, as RSI suggested, this was, in fact, two separate problems and the poor door seal at bottom latch was simply highlighting it.
You guys rock!
I’m thinking P&M was known for huffing like you described, but the nozzles on those were a little easier to plug than G series.
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I think that tool is a crows foot that's what I would call it!
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I know exactly what you are talking about schoppy, I just went through it myself with my 400, the hinges are difficult to adjust with the weight of the door on it! Because I'm such a life hack, here is my solution.
Start by wrapping a long ratchet strap through the door handle and completely around the boiler (use cardboard or rags to keep from scratching the paint with the metal portions of the stap) hook the ends of the strap together and loosely tighten the strap, place a small car scissor jack between the door and strap
( again use a softener) tighten the screw jack a bit so it will put pressure on the door inwards, now loosen the 4- 9/16 nuts that adjust the hinge side of the door, you should see the hinge adjustments move, unlatch the latch side and center the door on the jamb now take a few more turns on the screw jack, this will force the door onto the jamb, adjust your hinge and tighten them, dismantle the hack and move over to the latch side of the door. The latch side is a 3/4 inch acorn nut on each,loosen them and tap the bolts inward about 1/8 inch at a time, re tighten and try the latches, they should be tight enough to show some resistance without being hard to operate. With the doors all closed and the bypass open, fan operating you should not be able to hear any leakage around the door gasket. You will still have some residual liquid in the gasket that will drip out when the door is operated but it will subside and dry up after using the door a few times. The guys at the office can get you some spray bombs of the original color or if I have a chance perhaps I can find the paint color codes that I got from NAPA to paint the bus, it is an almost perfect match, best of luck and let us know how you make out!
It's really too bad there aren't any dealers around the Wisconsin area like you slim. Me and my family including my in laws would all have purchased through you. We have absolutely zero dealer support around here. I can't even get a phone call returned. When I bought my stove a couple years back I was promised 24-7/365 service (not free obviously but incase of emergency I'd have someone to fall back on) but now since the EPA has Stepped in I don't even get a phone call back yet alone an answer on a Wednesday at 11am.
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I think that tool is a crows foot that's what I would call it!
Exactly what I call it too. Crows toe or crows foot