Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Jon_E on December 27, 2016, 01:21:40 PM
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Hey all, new member, first post here.
I've been heating my home (4300 square feet of well-insulated SIP/timberframe) with a 2004 model Central Boiler CL5648. The boiler was planned from the beginning as part of the home construction. It is a dual-fuel model (propane and wood) and it has been running 24/7/365 since it was first put into service in September 2005. I have 30 acres of wood and do a lot of scrounging on construction sites, so getting wood cheap or free is easy. I only spend money on equipment and fuel for tractor and saws. I also keep at least two years ahead by cutting, splitting and stacking in two woodsheds that hold almost 23 full cords. I go through about ten cords a year plus burn about 300 gallons of propane during the summer. During the winter I load the firebox about 1/3 full twice a day, during the summer it's once every two or three days. I have no other heat source, so it has been supplying my domestic heat and hot water for over 11 years. I also need to admit that I have not been the best at preventive maintenance, so it now has problems I don't think I can fix.
Last fall it started leaking. Just a little drip, nothing serious. Thought it might have been a loose fitting or maybe a pinhole. I let it go. As of writing this, I have to put almost 100 gallons of water per WEEK back into the water jacket in order to keep it filled. I don't know exactly where the leaks are coming from, but I know there's several. I tried some Hercules Stop-Leak in a desperate attempt to slow it down, but that did nothing. So for the rest of the winter, I plan on continuously adding water as a major band-aid until I can address the problem in the spring.
My initial feeling is that I should shut it down in the spring, take it completely apart and try to find a local welder who can either build me a new outer jacket, or repair the old one. I have a feeling that the water jacket is shot, however, and a new one would be the only solution. It would probably still cost me a few thousand dollars, but it's cheaper than a new OWB. Of course, I still have to worry that the rest of the system can crap out on me at any time.
On the other hand, because I live in Vermont, I am required to install an EPA Phase 2-certified boiler if I upgrade. I like the idea that I may be able to cut down on my wood use, especially since I just built a new 800-sf 2-story garage and was hoping to heat that with wood as well. Unfortunately, with the current system, there's no way I'd be able to keep up.
So, unless you guys can convince me that fixing up my old Central would be a better idea, I think I will be looking for a new OWB/OWF in the spring and would like some feedback from users here on what they think would be a good solution for me (what I should be looking at). I've looked at websites from P&M, Central, Heatmaster SS, and Heatmor. I have a Heatmor dealer fairly local, although he is nearly impossible to find open, my Central Boiler Dealer is about 25 miles away and is decent but only wants to sell parts and does not offer any kind of service. I don't know where anyone else might be located. I would like to see anything that I am considering, in operation, before I purchase it.
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You’ll definitely use less wood with a gasifier, which brand is up to you depending on dealer and their rep for service.
If you can’t do the repairs yourself, I don’t think I’d pay for it to be done, more than likely once you get one part fixed and sealed back up it will start to leak elsewhere in a year or two.
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I just went through that decision myself this fall. I had an old shaver that started leaking. I tried patching it and ended up discovering that the entire bottom of the water jacket was rusted out. I could have fixed it myself, but at the cost of hundreds of dollars and many hours worth of work. Even after all of that I would have been left with a very inefficient conventional boiler that had seen better days. I ended up buying a Heatmaster G200 and put Logstor pipes in. I've been able to keep the house warmer and have truly unlimited hot water while burning a significantly lower amount of wood. Slimjim on here is the dealer that I bought from. He lives 10 min from me in Southern Maine, but he also covers VT. He can do boiler swap outs even in the winter if the buried insulated pipe you have is still okay. I believe he did a new boiler install and at least one boiler swap out in Northern VT within the last month. It'd be worth giving him a call if you're in a position that you'd rather swap the boiler out than wait til Spring. I can't speak for him, but it'd be worth a phone call to see if it'd be possible.
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Good morning Jon_E
Although I don't like to advertise on here for sales, FrozenMongrel is correct on all counts, it sounds like you are in southwestern VT. and yes I do service that area, yes we do have a swap out program ongoing.
I prefer that business be done via phone, E Mail or Personal Messaging, if you would like, I can PM you my phone number as it is my personal cell number and here is our other contact info.
E Mail is mainly_custom@yahoo.com
Website is mainlycustom.com
And Facebook is mainly custom
Please feel free to contact me here as well via personal messaging.
Thanks FrozenMongrel for thinking of us, I trust you had a nice Christmas and will have a happy New Year, stop by when you can!
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Appreciate the response from you guys. I did not consider that there would be a swap-out program available, I figured I would have to scrap this old CB or otherwise try to sell it on craigslist or eBay. While I would love to trade up now, I think it will have to wait until early spring. I will probably have to pour a new concrete pad. My existing piping is fine, in fact the piping that I installed for my garage was not hooked up because I wanted to fix the leaks first, and is still brand new.
I will look into the Heatmaster models a little more. Also going to look at some of the other products on the market. I want to make sure that whatever I get, I can easily maintain and hopefully will last me longer than the existing OWF. I also have to look at finances - a new OWB is expensive and I doubt my homeowner's insurance is going to cover this one. :o
SlimJim I will contact you after Jan 1 and thank you for the contact info.
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I don’t like to push people into this route, but financing is available thru Heatmaster if you don’t mind.
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mlappin is right and not to push but I do honor the factory discount that HeatMaster is currently offering on our boiler change outs, the G 200 is currently $1400 off list, but it ends Jan 1, not sure what they will be offering after that.
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Not for nothing but you said you put your boiler in service in 2005 and it is your primary heat source. You also said you have a plentiful supply of wood so you aren't buying wood. So with 2017 a few days away you have spent roughly maybe less than $1000 a year to heat your house and your DHW. Not bad if I had to say so. Pull the trigger and grab the rebate while you can , you won't be disapointed. I would plan on putting in a propane hot water heater for the summer months , the gasssers don't like to run when it's warm outside.
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It is always easier to spend someone else's hard earned money, but I say replace it now before you cant keep up with the leak(s). Winter just started. Do you really want to spend the next 3 - 4 months going between the wood pile and topping off the water hoping it doesn't get worse? Its a crappy situation, no doubt.
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Well, I appreciate your comments. It certainly is a crappy situation, I think the boiler's leaking even more now than it was a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately I need some time to get financing in place so I won't be able to pull the trigger today on a Heatmaster even if I wanted to. It doesn't bother me too much to put water in the boiler, but it's also something I could do without. I'm on well water and it's hard water, so that likely contributed to the problem. The upside is that is not really costing me much to continue on with the leaking OWB until spring. Extra wood and a few bucks a month in electric bill for running well pump and circulators a bit more than normal.
I notice almost all of you who have responded seem to be favoring the Heatmaster products, and at least two of you are dealers or distributors. Any personal bias aside, should I be concerned about support and service after the sale? I was on my own from Day One with my Central Boiler unit, all the dealer did was deliver it and sell me the parts, and they didn't even set it on the slab because they said it was too difficult to get there (it's accessible by anything smaller than a semi-trailer, so I called BS), but I had to get the crane operator, that was setting my timber frame, to place the OWB for me. I would like a little more support than I have received, and easily be able to get spare parts. I work as a maintenance director for a large health-care facility, so HVAC, plumbing for both hot water and steam systems, and electrical work is not much of a challenge. But, I like simple.
If I swap my boiler out, I think I may need a new concrete pad. The CB pad is different from the Heatmaster pad because my pipes enter and exit on the right side, while the Heatmaster ones enter and exit the back. Another good reason to do a little planning and wait for warmer weather.
My plan for backup hot water is to install a heat pump water heater (GE Geospring) in my basement, in place of my existing indirect water storage tank, so once the heating season is over, I can shut the OWB down and do it right instead of slapping another band-aid on the system (even if it's a brand new band-aid).
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ì`ve had quite a few leaks in my homebuilt.
usuallty i drive a piece of dry wood in the hole witha hammer,
trim it with a thin grinder blade
then seal all it.
did it quite a few times
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I notice almost all of you who have responded seem to be favoring the Heatmaster products, and at least two of you are dealers or distributors. Any personal bias aside, should I be concerned about support and service after the sale? I was on my own from Day One with my Central Boiler unit, all the dealer did was deliver it and sell me the parts, and they didn't even set it on the slab because they said it was too difficult to get there (it's accessible by anything smaller than a semi-trailer, so I called BS), but I had to get the crane operator, that was setting my timber frame, to place the OWB for me. I would like a little more support than I have received, and easily be able to get spare parts. .
Even though I’m a dealer for Heatmaster as well, I believe its been established that your in Slims area, he’s hands down one of the most helpful and service oriented persons around.
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Do your research, when you are ready if you want to do business with me, you know how to get ahold of me, until then, I wish you the best of luck and have a happy new year!
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How low does the water get if you don't keep adding it? I have heard of several Central Boilers that the top of the water jacket rotted away. They were able to keep using them for a while by just not filling them up to the leak.
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It'll get to the point where it drops below the ports and then it won't circulate. I know I have a bad leak right above my door, and another one somewhere near the bottom.
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Last year, one morning after Bible class a friend from Church called me to say he had water running out the loading door of his older plain jane CB. He tested his water regularly but neglected to clean out his ashes every year after the heating season. His bottom had rotted out on the inside of the fire box where the walls meet the bottom. 10 to 11 years old so no warranty and the factory said to just buy a new one. Fortunately he has a back up heat source.
He likes his old plain jane unit and it is a big unit. I ended up welding in a entire new bottom for him but had to bring it up about 2 inches on the walls to get to good metal to weld to. Had to weld it back in using 3 separate pieces instead of the one formed piece used when it was made.
Long story short, a few weeks later he was back in heat. No more leaks and now he is religious about cleaning it out every year. He realizes he is on borrowed time with the old gal but happy for now. I recommended that he check out Heatmaster when the time comes to replace her.
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No axe to grind for me (I built my own), but I have read Slim's posts here for years and seen the support he has provided for all brands, on his free time, as well as testimonials from his actual customers.
You need to do your due diligence of course but...
...If I lived in his service area and was going to buy a new one it would be a no-brainer, Slim and the Magic Bus would be paying us a visit. :thumbup:
You definitely came to the right place (this forum) Jon_E, there are several very smart and experienced dealers/woodburners here that are glad to share their wisdom with all.
Good luck with your decision.
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Ditto on SlimJim Joe_E. I only live half way across the country from Slim and he has helped me out multiple times.
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When it comes time to switch brands, see if you can add to the existing pad so the piping comes up where you need it. I have a Portage and Main that just sits on a large flat piece of steel I had laying around, no concrete pad...