Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: Jon_E on January 03, 2017, 06:54:16 AM
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Made a big decision in a big hurry during the week between Christmas and New Year's, decided to replace my old leaky Central Boiler Classic with a brand new G200. It arrives tomorrow!
Phase One will be a straight up swap with some temporary connections to existing plumbing and electrical. Phase Two will be in the spring, when I can pour a new pad, rebuild my wood shed, reconfigure my layout, and get everything the way I want it.
I am looking forward to not having to worry about the possibility of catastrophic failure with the new unit. Sadly ironic, the old OWB must have suspected it was on the way out and mysteriously slowed way down on the rate of leakage. Too late! ;D
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Congratulations Jon_E. :thumbup: :thumbup:
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It may have been the best hurried decision you ever made! You won't believe the reduction in wood usage if your wood supply is less than 25% mc and spilt in 4-6 inch splits.
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After a small learning curve you won't be dissapointed.
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It may have been the best hurried decision you ever made! You won't believe the reduction in wood usage if your wood supply is less than 25% mc and spilt in 4-6 inch splits.
Yeah, that's one thing that I have always done, in spite of the early assumptions that the old OWB's were capable of burning anything. Admittedly, I've burned a fair share of wet wood, oversize pieces or stuff that you should simply not put in a gasifier, but that's rare. I have always used a woodshed for the current year's firewood, and last year I finished another woodshed so that I should have at least three years of wood under a roof. The smaller shed holds six full cords and the larger one should hold between 12-14 depending on how high I stack it. I cut everything to 20" long and split so that I can pick up any given piece by the end with a gloved hand.
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Don’t be afraid to put the random chunk of unsplittable stuff in, I place the ugly stuff on top after filling per normal.
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Jon we are just south of Lebanon, NH. And finished with the Chip boiler but route 4 I expect to be a bit slick so we will camp out here for the night then a quick stop in Rutland in the early AM then on down to you, I would expect ETA to be around 10 AM.
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You are going to be very happy with both the boiler and Richard's install. It doesn't get any better. Sounds like you're right up the road from me Richard?
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I'll just echo what everyone else said. I don't think you can go wrong with both the g200 and Richard's work. I'm amazed at how easy the g200 I bought this fall is to run and maintain for a gassifier. My 1 year supply of wood I had on hand instantly became at least 2 if not 2 1/2.
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Up and gassing?
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Jeez Honda, give the adult beverages time to cool, ohhh wait that's after.
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Well, it's up and running! Had some minor "traction" issues withe the Magic Liberty Bus :bash: but we got that all sorted out, yanked the old Central Boiler unit (which immediately disappeared in the back of a friend's dump truck), set the new G200 and fired it up. Wanted to use my old pumps (Taco 007) but they decided not to cooperate, leaking just as bad as the old boiler >:( , so replaced with new Grundfos (which is a better pump anyway).
First photo is the old junker, second is the new unit in place (temporary until spring), third is the first firing (little smoke, mostly condensation from the cold water jacket and ambient moisture from the day and the road trip, fourth is the refractory chamber after the first load fired off. I just missed catching the gasification burn but the little coals are still glowing. If anyone is wondering about why we didn't put the new unit on the old slab - the piping arrangement for the old and new are completely different. I will be putting in a new slab in the spring, if I can't convince myself to relocate the entire unit to another part of my yard, next to my garage. The white PEX that we didn't hook up, goes to my as-yet-unfinished garage and will be hooked up soon. The G200 appears to be oversized for the current heat load but will be perfect once I have everything else hooked up that needs to be.
I'd been cutting and splitting all my wood to 20" and that's perfect for the G200 firebox.
Sufficient adult beverages were consumed following the initial firing and during the "monitoring" phase of the process.
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Cant wait to hear about the reduced wood consumption!
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Nice! You'll enjoy running that I'm sure!
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Don't forget to heat that pool in the off season we swim useuly from April till October it's very inexpensive to do !
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Thanks for helping me get out early this morning Jon, I just now got to Houlton, Me. 463 miles on the Magic Liberty Bus today including stopping at the house to load Hoardac's G 200 that's not bad when you consider starting northwest of Bennington, VT. Right about on the NY border up over Hogback mountain, to the house and load then 300 miles north east to the Canadian border, the old girl got a good workout today and never skipped a beat!
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Richard, glad to hear you made it way up to the border in good shape.
A few comments on the new boiler so far:
It's obvious wood use will be way down. Yesterday morning I had to leave for work before I could check the boiler, but Richard and Mike were still at the house and were ready to fill the firebox and add boiler conditioner, and take a water sample. I assume they filled it up before they left. So, yesterday afternoon when I got home (about 4 pm) I went out to have a look. Opened the bypass, cracked the door open, waited a few seconds, and looked inside. First think I noticed was a pretty substantial coating of creosote on the door frame and door. It was almost the consistency of glue. I scraped a lot of it off and put it back in the firebox, on top of the wood. Wood was totally charred but still whole, and the level was down to the bottom of the door frame. The water temperature was at 179* and holding. I added three small pieces (2-3" dia.) and closed it up for the night.
This morning, 6 am, went out to check it before work. Water temp still at 179*. I opened the firebox and saw that there was about 2" of small hot coals at the bottom of the firebox, and the nozzle (slot) in the bottom was wide open. I raked the coals around and loaded the firebox with new wood to about 6" above the bottom of the door frame. By the time I got done loading, the wood on the bottom had started actively burning. The creosote that was there the previous afternoon, had more or less turned to a dry brown dust coating. The overnight heat demand consisted of water for three showers, a couple loads each of dishes and laundry, and the heating demand for 4300 sf of well-insulated house with an outdoor temperature of 19*.
So it looks like I am getting about 24 hours of burn time with a full-to-the-top firebox. I probably won't do that unless I have to, I will stick to twice a day feedings. I suspect that my demand is currently too low for the system as it sits, but adding another heat zone in my house (which up to this point has never been used) and adding my garage (24x36 uninsulated) will probably be right on the money for this boiler.
In my best estimate, I am using no more than 30% of the firewood I was using last week with the old boiler, and the outdoor temperatures are lower. Once I add new heat zones, I will probably still be only about 50-60% of my historical wood use. I call that a WIN! Even if that wasn't the case, I really like all the features of this new system - the smoke bypass, the higher firebox door, the clean and accessible pump and piping area, the lack of heavy smoke, etc. Lots of good things.
Should have done this years ago.
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:post:
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Awesome Jon, Thanks for the update, everything sounds very normal, on another note, Hoardac is now fired up and operational, he seems very happy and I'm sure will update us soon, I'm back in Bangor for 2 site visits on my way home, I'll be glad to get there for a few days, it's been a great week and THanks guys!
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Another update: came home @ 4 pm yesterday and checked firebox, still full of wood just like the day before, water temp at 176*. I'm beginning to see a pattern.... :)
This morning went out @ 9:30 am, lots of coals in the bottom of the firebox, couple large chunks of unburned wood. This time the unit was running when I went out there, although I was within 20' before I could see anything coming out of the chimney. It was a plume of heat, just a shimmer in the air above the chimney, not even white in color. Water temp was 176*. I stirred up the coals, filled the firebox and within two minutes of shutting the door and closing the smoke bypass damper, the unit hit 180* and shut off.
Noticed that the "creosote" built up on the firebox door was not creosote - it was the gray paint they put on the door, which had blackened and was peeling. Underneath was clean stainless steel. I suppose eventually all the paint will come off the inside of the door.
Also must give two thumbs up to the Grundfos pumps. After 10+ years of fighting with quality issues on Taco pumps, these little red monsters are dead silent and smooth. No more Taco for me.
Have to say thanks again, Richard, for getting this critter installed and operational on short notice. Hope to see you in the spring for a service visit.
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:post: if you are like me you'll find satisfaction in looking at the next 12 hours temps and trying to estimate correctly just the right amount of wood to get trough and leave a nice 2-3 inch bed of coals.
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Yeah, I was just thinking that maybe I could start counting splits. Gonna be bad enough just thinking about it. I burn such a huge variety of wood that I'd have to start estimating average BTU count per loading, taking moisture content and wood volume into account.
Just since Wednesday the G200 has eaten at least one piece each of balsam fir, white pine, black birch, sugar maple, ash, Norway maple, black locust, basswood, butternut, white oak, hop hornbeam and beech. Might have missed a couple but I know that's at least what I put in. All my stacks are like that, 20 to 30 different species. I'm just happy that I am burning less wood.
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Well, this morning was a first. >:(
Headed out to feed the boiler before I went to work. Immediately noticed red light on side was blinking. Got there, checked temp, unit had shut down due to low temp and was at 130 degrees.
Opened smoke bypass, opened firebox door and still full of wood! Not sure why the fire went out but all it took was 15 seconds with a propane torch and the wood was lit right back up. I pressed the cold start button, stirred it around a bit, added a few more small pieces, and babysat it for about 15 minutes. Went up to 135 and then I had to take off for work. I could hear it gasifying when I left, sounded like a jet engine.
There appeared to be a lot of coals in the bottom of the firebox, and they lit up very quickly, which tells me that they weren't cold. What would have caused this?
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That's an odd one Jon, perhaps your wood bridged up and burned out the coal bed directly under the wood or maybe it hit the high limit and by the time the control reset itself the fire went out.
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I only had one time the G400 did something like that, we were out of town over night and Father filled it for me, got home in the dark and water temp was 108. Moved things around a bit and it took off on its own, only thing I figure is he didn’t have things stacked tight enough and it might have been cold enough the low temp cutout kicked in before it took off.
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I think I have had it happen 3 times so far in the past season and a half of running mine. One time was my wife who loaded it so I have no clue what happaned, I assume it was low on coals, she loaded no small pieces on the bottom and that caused it to never catch. Another time I had played with the high limit which was set to 185. I had raised the low temp cut out to 139. This caused the snap disc which is set to 190 to pop off. The snap disc doesnt cut back in until 140. By the time it kicked back in it didnt have enough time to get the fire going before it tripped the low temp cut out at 139 and shut the boiler down. I went back to the original 180 high point to keep from hitting the snap disc again. Another time the wood just simply bridged because of lack of coals.
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Well it was either a bridging issue or it just didn't catch, I haven't messed with the factory settings and don't plan to, but I usually try to stir up the coals every time I load, even did it with my old boiler.
Oh well, no harm no foul. It was amazing with that forced draft to see how quickly the whole bottom of the firebox was glowing hot coals after only a few minutes. Temps here today and tomorrow are in the high 40's approaching 50, so tonight's load will be a light one.
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Well it was either a bridging issue or it just didn't catch, I haven't messed with the factory settings and don't plan to, but I usually try to stir up the coals every time I load, even did it with my old boiler.
Oh well, no harm no foul. It was amazing with that forced draft to see how quickly the whole bottom of the firebox was glowing hot coals after only a few minutes. Temps here today and tomorrow are in the high 40's approaching 50, so tonight's load will be a light one.
I had that problem a couple times right after I fired my boiler for the first time. I changed the idle times to 60 min instead of 90 between calls for heat as the pine and maple that I'm using seems to not last that long with no airflow even though I have a good coal bed. With the warmer temps it can be multiple hours between calls for heat at my house during the day as I have a lot of passive solar heating from large windows on the south side of the house. Since I changed the idle time I haven't had the issue. It wasn't bridging or antlything else, just simply going out from lack of airflow. I haven't changed it back to 90 min with the colder weather, but if it gets cold again and stays cold I may give it a try.
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If you really want to see how fast it will light , close the bypass and stick the torch down in there. If you get too close to the bottom it will suck the flame right out
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Turns out my issue was neither of the two suspects. I got home tonight, red light was flashing, water temp was around 119 and damper only at 9.4%. Called Richard @ Mainly Custom and told him what was going on, he suspected it might be a voltage issue with the new Honeywell actuators. Got off the phone and said to myself ... wait a minute.....damper at 9.4%? Calling for heat? Damper should be at 100%, right? Disc damper is closed all the way. Fire is getting no air at all. At the least it should be cracked just a little. Turned unit off, then back on. Watched the damper percentage rise from zero to around 11.4% and stop dead, the actuator was trying to open the damper and could not do it. Turned out that the damper disc itself was actually stuck to the steel panel behind it. Don't know if it was paint or creosote making it stick, but after loosening the shaft of the actuator, gently tapping the disc with a dead blow hammer and a prybar (no I did not whack it hard) it suddenly freed itself and spun. I retightened the shaft on the actuator, lubed the disc with some dry graphite, turned the furnace off and on again, voila - it worked. Opened right up to 100% and the fire was getting air again. Not sure why it stuck but it will be something I keep an eye on from now on.
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Actually I had a similar issue within the first few days of running my G400.
On mine it wasn’t closing all the way, turns out the shaft was inserted too far and was bottomed out hard. Loosened the lock bolt and let it slide out a 16th of an inch, never didi it again.
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I only had one time the G400 did something like that, we were out of town over night and Father filled it for me, got home in the dark and water temp was 108. Moved things around a bit and it took off on its own, only thing I figure is he didn’t have things stacked tight enough and it might have been cold enough the low temp cutout kicked in before it took off.
If the water temp is getting down close to the low temp cut off when loading, I push the cold start button in case it drops below 120 before the wood gets burning.
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Nice and warm out (40's) the past couple of days, burned nothing on Wednesday, only about six splits yesterday, everything's working the way it should.
Going to clean the outside of this thing (finally!) tomorrow, and do my first ash cleanout, even though it probably doesn't need it yet. Want to see what I have.
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I cleaned mine out today because I was having a heat problem 1 sand box shovel of ashes after 1 week, the old boiler we would get a metal push snow scoop full every 2 weeks or less if it was cold what a difference. My damper stuck like yours did.
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Well, here's the one month anniversary report on the G200. Installed January 4th, today is February 4th.
By my best estimate (basically looking at photos on the day of installation and what's left today), I've used just at or just under one full cord of wood since the new G200 was put in. This puts my wood use slightly under what I estimated, which was a cord every 21 days. Big difference from the old Central Boiler, I am certain that I would have already exhausted my entire winter's wood supply by now and been burning more-or-less green beech and white oak already, which is actually next year's firewood. I've BTDT (been there, done that) in the past and it ain't fun.
Ash - what ash? I've cleaned out twice and gotten enough ash in total to fill a couple of #10 cans. There's a bit of pine and a fair amount of heavy bark (locust & butternut) mixed in my firewood stacks and that's probably most of it right there. I'm keeping cardboard and paper out of the OWF unless I need to start a fire, and so far I've only had to do that once since the first day.
Sticky damper - this has been covered in other threads, but every five to eight days it sticks again, I spend all of fifteen seconds slipping a thin flexible putty knife behind it and it pops right off and I'm back in business. I'm waiting until spring to shut down and give this critter a permanent fix, but it's no longer a major concern for me. I know there are other with the same problem and some have come up with solutions. I don't like seeing the red light blinking but at least it's not overheating, and I know how to fix it.
Smoke - virtually non-existent. If the OWB is low in the cycle (160-165 degrees) or in cold-start mode (see sticky damper above), and the firebox is mostly empty, I get some startup smoke. Once it starts gasifying, forget it - you can see some steam and heat but that's it. No gray, black, brown or stinky smoke clouds pouring out of this thing. During a full burn, high in the cycle, when the firebox has been "baking" for several hours, you can't see a thing. I mean nothing. If you stare at the chimney with some background, you might be able to make out a faint heat signature - like heat waves off pavement in the summer. When the unit is off and there's no demand, there's also nothing to be seen unless it has just finished the burn cycle - then I'm getting some residual smoke as the fire uses up what's left of the air in the firebox. Highest I have seen the water temp go so far is 182 degrees.
Overall, given the wood use, ease of operation, smoke, customer support from the dealer, build quality and personal satisfaction, I'd give the G200 a solid 9 out of 10. Just need to clean and fix my sticky damper and I'll be one very happy G200 user.
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Sticky damper - this has been covered in other threads, but every five to eight days it sticks again, I spend all of fifteen seconds slipping a thin flexible putty knife behind it and it pops right off and I'm back in business. I'm waiting until spring to shut down and give this critter a permanent fix, but it's no longer a major concern for me. I know there are other with the same problem and some have come up with solutions. I don't like seeing the red light blinking but at least it's not overheating, and I know how to fix it.
I’ve been thinking about that, was wondering about getting a small hub cap or even a cup style freeze plug, placing it over the shaft hole from the inside, placing a few small tacks on it then sealing with silicone.
Maybe they’ll go back to the old style if it continues to be a problem.
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I heard they changed the design through the grapevine after Neal's issues? Are they going to ship out new boxes to the owners with the badly designed box??
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For anyone having the issue, I believe that is the plan.
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:post: