Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Camino Cerdo on January 22, 2017, 07:46:40 AM
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My current OWB is leaking and needs replaced. It is a HeatSource 1, stainless steel. Unit is just over ten years old and had a ten year warranty. From what I have been able to find out stainless steel may not corrode but has a nasty habit of cracking. Builders use thinner metal due to cost with SS adding to the problem. So in looking for a new unit I was shying away from SS and had almost decided on the P&M BL-2840 but then I liked the look and reviews of the Heatmaster G-200. So what is the experience with the 409 Stainless Steel used by Heatmaster? How thick is it? Anyone had it crack.
Any other recommendations for units I should look at before jumping? We have no local dealers, (closest is 650 miles), so it is kind of hard to run around and look them all over.
I am going to have to order up something in the next week or two as the water loss is getting high.
Bob
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The 409 in HeatmasterSS furnaces is the same 409 used by Heatmor for decades, CB is also offering boilers made out of stainless now as well.
409 stainless is titanium enhanced and resists cracking unlike some other stainless used by other brands. From my experience 409 is as close to mild steel far as welding and working with it as you can get yet won’t rot away like mild steel can.
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I had a 12yr old Empyre that was 304 and cracked as well. I just installed a Portage and Main BL 34-44 and so far, it has been a nice unit. It only holds half the water as my Empyre, but seems to use a bit less wood. Even though it is supposed to handle 8000sqft, I don't think it would handle the load as well as the Empyre. I'm heating a 4000sqft house, 1000ft shop and have 2 hot water heaters supported.
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I purchased and installed a Heatmaster G200 this past November and I really like it. I replaced an old Shaver conventional and the difference is night and day! There are a lot of options on the market right now and they all have individual perks. Do your own research so that you'll be comfortable with your choice. Not sure where you are, but the local OWB dealer may have an impact on your choice as you will be able to see whatever they have on hand and probably have better service from a local dealer.
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Seems like heatmaster is the way to go these days. I love the simplicity of my natures comfort but they have been slowly falling apart due to EPA regulations. Sad seeing they had to shut down slot of their robotic welders and lay off quite a few employees. Central has had nothing but poor warranty support for the last 5 years. I haven't yet heard of any heatmaster failures. I think that would be my next purchase. My natures comfort is only 2 years old and does a really great job. I can get 24 hour burn times when it's 30 degrees out like today. When it's negative 20 obviously 12 hour burn times are the best I can get. How have the heatmaster stoves been doing on burn times?
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Where are you located?
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Central Wisconsin
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Any other recommendations for units I should look at before jumping? We have no local dealers, (closest is 650 miles), so it is kind of hard to run around and look them all over.
Bob
Where are you located at?
If you goto the top of the page then click on Profile then Summary then Forum Profile you can add your location under Personal Text, this generally makes it easier for people to reply to your posts with more pertinent information.
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This is my 2nd burning season with my BL-3444 and LOVE IT! I'm heating about 6,500 sq ft and DHW. I burn about half as much wood as my neighbor who has a CB-6048. I did a ton of research and I am 100% glad I bought my Portage and Main, you wont be disappointed.
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This is my 2nd burning season with my BL-3444 and LOVE IT! I'm heating about 6,500 sq ft and DHW. I burn about half as much wood as my neighbor who has a CB-6048. I did a ton of research and I am 100% glad I bought my Portage and Main, you wont be disappointed.
Problem is depending on where the OP is, he may not be able to install a BL series, the new gasser from P&M looks interesting though.
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I have the Central Boiler E-Classic 1400 which CB no longer makes. It's one its' 6th season heating my home and domestic hot-water (DHW). Other than the occasional minor hiccup (operator malfunction) it's operated flawlessly. BUT, I will admit their warranty sucks. A couple of years ago I wanted to have the air channel welded in one of the corners (nothing to do with water jacket) and they would not honor the repair. I had to pay out of pocket to get it welded shut before it spread too far. i don't know if their warranty coverage is any better due to not needing their service since that time. Roger
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My current OWB is leaking and needs replaced. It is a HeatSource 1, stainless steel. Unit is just over ten years old and had a ten year warranty. From what I have been able to find out stainless steel may not corrode but has a nasty habit of cracking. Builders use thinner metal due to cost with SS adding to the problem. So in looking for a new unit I was shying away from SS and had almost decided on the P&M BL-2840 but then I liked the look and reviews of the Heatmaster G-200. So what is the experience with the 409 Stainless Steel used by Heatmaster? How thick is it? Anyone had it crack.
Any other recommendations for units I should look at before jumping? We have no local dealers, (closest is 650 miles), so it is kind of hard to run around and look them all over.
I am going to have to order up something in the next week or two as the water loss is getting high.
Bob
Go to PROFILE top of page, select FORUM PROFILE,, find SIGNATURE,, and you can add your whereabouts ,,then click change profile at bottom of right .
Now whenever you post we know were your located.
This helps with guys answer your questions etc..
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Would like to thank all for their input. I've been away from the computer for a couple of days, but back again. Leak is getting worse, I may shut it down and see what I can do to glue it together till I can get off the fence and get another unit here and installed.
I am located in South West Washington and have not found any dealers for units that I would consider so I do not have the chance to look them over in person. So your help and comments are most appreciated.
We have lots of experience with hot water heat, had two in the house and now the leaking one outside, in floor heat in our shop with used oil boiler, and even had diesel Webesco unit a bus conversion with in floor heat. So I plan on staying with this type of heat, but I am getting old so if I can reduce the mass of wood that would be good.
Biggest concern I have with HeatMaster is stainless steel. I got burnt once. Concerned about the low water volume with the P&M.
Bob
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Biggest concern I have with HeatMaster is stainless steel. I got burnt once. Concerned about the low water volume with the P&M.
Bob
Heatmaster uses 409 stainless, the very same material that Heatmor has used for decades, the very same material that CB now offers their boilers in as an option.
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Furnace has been ordered, Portage and Main EGR 250. Primary reason I choose the P&M was that they would deal directly with me. The closest dealer for the other option was 850 miles so service really was not an option and when I need parts or consultation I wanted to be able to deal directly with manufacture.
I decided to go with an EPA certified unit where I live in the Socialist State of Washington and we are under the constant thumb of the gestapo due to our farming activities. The EGR 250 will likely require more maintenance and service than my old boiler but I am hoping the promise of better efficiency will compensate for that.
Once I get it installed and have a few cords of wood through it I will post a review.
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EGR250 EPA certified? I do not think it was on EPA list of certified units. I'd like to know the results of the test.
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I don't see it?https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-hydronic-heaters (https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-hydronic-heaters)
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We all know it takes months to get on the list even after approval, especially if we can reduce govt, give them some time, I've seen it run and would be surprised if it didn't pass
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I didn't mean to sound critical of the unit itself or P&M. I just thought that with him being in Washington State he needs to make sure that it for sure did pass. I think I've heard that Washington is one of the tightest states out there and has restrictions beyond even the epa.
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Last time I looked at the P&M site, I could not find anything mentioning it being EPA approved.
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I have the Hardy H-4 built with 304 stainless and had no troubles with the stove. I bought it used and it was built in 1996. It is not the most efficient but it does work and its simple to operate.
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USEPA Certified Hydronic Heaters February 2017
*Not able to calculate (NAC) – the test method (EN 303-5) does not provide a process for calculating the annual average particulate emissions rate (grams/hr).
Manufacturer Model Name Model Number
Recommended Fuel
Annual Avg. Emission Rate (lb/mmBtu)
Max Heat Output Rating (Btu/hr)
8-hour Output Rating (BTU/hr)
Annual Average Efficiency (%HHV)
Annual Avg. Emission Rate (gr/hr)*
Carbon Monoxide (required for certifications under the 2015 NSPS) g/hr
Thermal Storage Required
Advanced Climate Technologies, LLC
CP 500 Pellets 0.03 532,000 532,000 88 NAC* X
Advanced Climate Technologies, LLC
CP 850 Pellets 0.02 840,000 840,000 88 NAC X
Advanced Climate Technologies, LLC
CP 1000 Pellets 0.03 1,030,000 1,030,000 87 NAC X
Advanced Climate Technologies, LLC
CP 1700 Pellets 0.01 1,650,000 1,650,000 89 NAC X
Alternate Heating Systems Wood Gun E155 cord wood 0.32 147,632 53 5.09
Central Boiler E-Classic 1450 cord wood 0.18 214,000 120,529 78 4.70
Central Boiler E-Classic 3250 IR cord wood 0.18 245,000 244,174 69 3.81
Central Boiler Maxim M255P/M255PE Pellets 0.04 165,215 165,215 82 0.80
Central Boiler Classic Edge 350 cord wood 0.18 177,802 67,702 79 3.60
Central Boiler Classic Edge 550 cord wood 0.31 162,170 81,168 70 5.20
Central Boiler Classic Edge 750 cord wood 0.18 240,362 186,669 72 4.60
DECTRA GARN WHS-2000H cord wood 0.07 200,000 105,050 74 1.69
DECTRA GARN WHS-2000V cord wood 0.07 200,000 105,050 74 1.69
DECTRA GARN WHS-1500H cord wood 0.14 177,000 87,179 65 2.88
DECTRA GARN WHS-1500V cord wood 0.14 177,000 87,179 65 2.88
DECTRA GARN
WHS-1000H and WHS-1000V
cord wood 0.2 160,000 160,000 77 NAC 0.47
Earth Manufacturing, LLC Klear Sky 400 cord wood 0.3 70,770 45,786 47 5.10
Econoburn Boilers EBW 200-170 cord wood 0.16 171,638 60 NAC x
Effecta Energy Solutions
Komplett III Light 20 KW
pellets 0.02 68,000 68,000 85 NAC X
Effecta Energy Solutions
Komplett III Light 25 kW
pellets 0.02 85,000 85,000 86 NAC X
Effecta Energy Solutions
Komplett III Light 35 kW
pellets 0.02 120,000 120,000 85 NAC X
ESIM USV 100GS cord wood 0.20 350,367 61 7.55
Evoworld, Inc HP 14 Pellets 0.01 47,800 47,800 88 NAC X
Evoworld, Inc P 28 Pellets 0.02 94,200 94,200 85 NAC X
Evoworld, Inc P 50 Pellets 0.01 163,000 163,000 90 NAC X
Evoworld, Inc P 100 Pellets 0.02 360,000 360,000 88 NAC X
Evoworld, Inc P 200 Pellets 0.02 699,000 699,000 86 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 8 Pellets 0.04 35,800 35,800 88 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 15 Pellets 0.03 50,800 50,800 87 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 20 Pellets 0.03 68,200 68,200 87 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 25 Pellets 0.03 85,300 85,300 87 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 32 Pellets 0.03 109,000 109,000 87 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 38 Pellets 0.02 130,000 130,000 86 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 48 Pellets 0.03 164,000 164,000 86 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 60 Pellets 0.03 200,000 200,000 86 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 80 Pellets 0.03 273,000 273,000 87 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 100 Pellets 0.03 341,000 341,000 88 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
T4-130 Pellets 0.02 444,000 444,000 85 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
S3 Turbo 50 cord wood 0.12 166,194 166,194 73 NAC X
Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
T4-150 Pellets 0.02 512,000 512,000 85 NAC X
Greentech Manufacturing Inc. Crown Royal RS7400E cord wood 0.24 296,192 116,597 61 8.00
Greentech Manufacturing Inc. Crown Royal RS7200E cord wood 0.13 184,508 184,508 60 2.46
Greentech Manufacturing Inc. Crown Royal RS7300E cord wood 0.29 189,599 60,612 54 6.20
Hardy Manufacturing Co., Inc. KB 125 cord wood 0.3 119,457 60,261 61 4.10
Hardy Manufacturing Co., Inc. KB 165 cord wood 0.31 150,000 73,573 57 3.90
Hawken Energy GX Series GX 10 cord wood 0.14 144,870 76,887 64 2.20
Hawken Energy GX Series GX15 cord wood 0.18 176,116 73,234 70 3.70
Hawken Energy GX Series GX30 cord wood 0.17 242,090 104,865 67 4.90
Heatmor 400-4S cord wood 0.28 400,000 160,599 76 10.70
Heatmor X Series 200X cord wood 0.3 184,459 54,019 62 8.10
Heatmor 350X cord wood 0.31 255,582 89,753 58 9.20
Heatmor Manufacturing 200 SSP 200 SSP cord wood 0.32 180,000 162,793 69 NAC
Heizomat Canada, Inc. RHK AK 30 pellets 0.04 142,000 142,000 86 NAC X
Hydronic Specialty Supply, Inc.
Drummer Drummer 35 cord wood 0.32 115,000 60 NAC x
LMF Manufacturing Ltd. AHB-170P pellets 0.99 77,771 54 0.47
Mahoning Outdoor Furnace Mahoning Skye Series V cord wood 0.18 110,000 82,594 54 2.40
Maine Energy Systems, LLC PE16 pellets 0.02 57,000 57,000 86 NAC x
Maine Energy Systems, LLC PE32 pellets 0.02 109,000 109,000 85 NAC x
Maine Energy Systems, LLC PE64 pellets 0.02 229,000 229,000 87 NAC x
Maine Energy Systems, LLC PE/PES 12-20 pellets 0.07 67,694 75 0.70
Maine Energy Systems, LLC PES 25-32 pellets 0.06 99,797 81 0.80
Maine Energy Systems, LLC PE/PES 36-56 pellets 0.07 199,408 86 1.70
Maine Energy Systems, LLC EasyPell 16-20kW pellets 0.10 68,000 75 NAC
Marway Welding Phase 2-200 cord wood 0.26 139,576 65,336 39 3.75
Nature's Comfort LLC GT Series GT-6000 cord wood 0.22 250,000 100,959 73 5.70
NBE Production Kedel RTB54 pellets 0.08 60,000 70 0.68
NBE Production Kedel RTB102 pellets 0.07 87,379 73 0.87
NBE Production Kedel RTB170 pellets 0.08 162,000 79 1.76
NBE Production Kedel RTB54 pellets 0.03 58,000 58,000 85 NAC x
NBE Production Kedel RTB102 pellets 0.04 86,000 86,000 85 NAC x
NBE Production Kedel RTB170 pellets 0.04 156,000 156,000 86 NAC x
Northwest Mfg Inc Woodmaster Ultra 30 pellets 0.09 102,716 102,716 59 1.60
Northwest Mfg Inc Woodmaster CleanFire 400 cord wood 0.07 102,408 102,408 67 1.04
Northwest Mfg Inc Woodmaster Mini Boiler pellets 0.11 101,577 101,577 65 1.40
Pellergy, LLC/Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
Alpha-60 pellets 0.02 51,900 51,900 86 NAC x
Pellergy, LLC/Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
Alpha-100 pellets 0.01 88,400 88,400 86 NAC x
Piney Manufacturing Optimizer 350 cord wood 0.30 400,000 160,421 65 7.30
Piney Manufacturing Enviro Chip 500 cord wood 0.19 280,000 73 5.40
Polar Furnace Manufacturing Inc.
G3 G3 cord wood 0.08 200,000 142,533 72 1.96
Polar Furnace Manufacturing Inc.
G-Class G2Plus cord wood 0.07 183,307 183,307 73 NAC 1.70
Polar Furnace Manufacturing Inc.
G2 G2 cord wood 0.19 200,000 66,897 67 3.53
Profab Industries Empire Elite 200/XT200 cord wood 0.31 185,983 64,047 61 5.96
Smokeless Heat, LLC/Värmebaronen AB
Pellmax UB pellets 0.03 83,100 83,100 85 NAC x
Steel Tech, Inc. G Series G200-2 cord wood 0.07 232,000 111,315 75 1.70
Steel Tech, Inc. G Series G100 cord wood 0.07 125,000 68 1.00
Steel Tech, Inc. G Series G400 cord wood 0.23 350,000 180,409 74 9.00
Tarm USA, Inc. FHG 20/30 cord wood 0.18 70,000 69 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 8 pellets 0.04 35,800 35,800 88 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 15 pellets 0.03 50,800 50,800 87 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 20 pellets 0.03 68,200 68,200 87 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 25 pellets 0.03 85,300 85,300 87 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 32 pellets 0.03 109,000 109,000 87 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 38 pellets 0.02 130,000 130,000 86 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 48 pellets 0.03 164,000 164,000 86 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 60 pellets 0.03 200,000 200,000 86 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 80 pellets 0.03 273,000 273,000 87 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
P4 Unit 100 pellets 0.03 341,000 341,000 88 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
T4-130 pellets 0.02 444,000 444,000 85 NAC x
Tarm USA, Inc./ Fröling Heizkessel- und Behälterbau Ges.m.b.H
T4-150 pellets 0.02 512,000 512,000 85 NAC x
Varmebaronen AB/ Smokeless Heat, LLC
Pellmax 200 UB Pellets 0.03 83,100 83,100 85 NAC X
Varmebaronen AB Vedolux 30 cord wood 0.19 109,529 109,529 62 NAC 0.13
Varmebaronen AB Vedolux 37 cord wood 0.11 132,091 132,091 69 NAC 0.1
Varmebaronen AB Vedolux 55 cord wood 0.15 170,418 170,418 67 NAC 0.19
Varmebaronen AB Vedolux 450 cord wood 0.15 130,731 130,731 75 NAC 0.04
Varmebaronen AB Vedolux 350 cord wood 0.15 118,724 118,724 74 NAC 0.07
Viessmann Holzheiztechnik GmbH
Pyrot 150 Pellets 0.01 494,000 494,000 85 NAC X
Viessmann Holzheiztechnik GmbH
Pyrot 540 Pellets 0.02 1,700,000 1,700,000 88 NAC X
Viessmann Holzheiztechnik GmbH
Pyrotec 390 Pellets 0.04 1,430,000 1,430,000 86 NAC X
Viessmann Holzheiztechnik GmbH
Pyrotec 530 Pellets 0.06 1,860,000 1,860,000 87 NAC X
Viessmann Holzheiztechnik GmbH
Pyrotec 720 Pellets 0.06 2,470,000 2,470,000 85 NAC X
WEbiomass, Inc. Woodpecker pellets 0.19 153,000 72 3.30
Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
BioWin 152 pellets 0.02 55,000 55,000 87 NAC X
Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
BioWin 102 Pellets 0.02 36,900 36,900 88 NAC X
Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
BioWin 262 Pellets 0.02 94,500 94,500 87 NAC X
Windhager, North America, LLC/Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
BioWin 100 pellets 0.02 34,800 34,800 87 NAC x
Windhager, North America, LLC/Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
BioWin 150 pellets 0.02 51,900 51,900 86 NAC x
Windhager, North America, LLC/Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
BioWin 260 pellets 0.01 88,400 88,400 86 NAC x
Windhager, North America, LLC/Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
BioWin 350 pellets 0.02 119,000 119,000 85 NAC x
Windhager, North America, LLC/Windhager Zentralheizung Technik GmbH
BioWin 600 pellets 0.02 202,000 202,000 85 NAC x
Wood Boiler USA
Pellet Burner Easy
35 Pellet 0.10 429,452 429,452 67 NAC
Wood Boiler USA E4 cord wood 0.25 161,455 77,308 61 4.50
Wood Boiler USA Blaze HE cord wood 0.27 166,109 60,000 58 5.30
END of LIST
I'm not Seeing it either. Hope it gets on here.
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The one from Marway is made a few towns over from us, not sure how they could have a gasser clean enough to pass but such horrible efficiency it’s like 39%.
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Is it a true gasser? One way to get a clean stack is to put a cat on the stack to clean it up but you lose the heat generated by that cat and I think they also use electric to heat up the cat to get the reaction started which is also lost energy. Really don't know what Marway is doing, but just wondering.
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Furnace has been ordered, Portage and Main EGR 250. Primary reason I choose the P&M was that they would deal directly with me. The closest dealer for the other option was 850 miles so service really was not an option and when I need parts or consultation I wanted to be able to deal directly with manufacture.
I decided to go with an EPA certified unit where I live in the Socialist State of Washington and we are under the constant thumb of the gestapo due to our farming activities. The EGR 250 will likely require more maintenance and service than my old boiler but I am hoping the promise of better efficiency will compensate for that.
Once I get it installed and have a few cords of wood through it I will post a review.
Just wanted to say you made a great choice . P&M stand by their products. Hope it does you right.