Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Central Boiler => Topic started by: MTJAG on March 30, 2011, 10:27:27 AM
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Hi all, I am new to this forum. I have a CB 5036 on order and my dealer told me of a "new" baffle in the chimney that is suppose to reduce wood use. This is not the baffle at the end of the box, but up in the stack. Anyone got one of these?
Also, anybody willing to give me some feedback on their CB5036 with or without the baffle.
Thanks much
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Anybody on this site?
Anybody with a damper in their CB?
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Haven't heard of the baffle... but I have a 6048.
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thanks for the reply. According to my dealer, this baffle/damper is relatively new and can be used on the 5036 and the 6048. How long have you had your 6048 and is it doing what you expected?
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I've had mine for about 4 seasons now. No problems, very happy with it. My brother has the early version of the 6048, and has had his for about 14 years now, burns garbage, never uses water treatment and hasn't had any problems either.
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hey, thanks for the feedback. The 5036 and 6048 seem to be bullet proof. At least I am hoping so.
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My dealer hasn't heard of this damper. I did look in the accessory catalog and it mentions a restrictor T that can be installed in the Chimney to lower the burn rate. (part number 10970). Can only be installed on CL 4030, 5036 and 6048. Could that be what he was talking about?
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I think that is it. I will confirm with my dealer. According to my dealer, he had not used one, but several other dealers have been using them up in Wyoming and Montana that he knows and they are reporting good wood savings. The other questions would be whether or not they affect cresoting and produce more smoke. My dealer didn't have an answer to those questions.
Originally, I was going with the e-classic 1400, but found out with three solenoids and a blower, it was going to be too much of an energy drain for my off-grid solar. So, I scaled back to the 5036 since we don't have air quality restrictions or issues in this county. The dealer brought up the idea of the restrictor that would reduce overall wood consumption, much like the e-classic 1400. Hope he's right.
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I'd be very interested in this. Keep us posted if you install it. I really have plenty of wood so if it makes it smoke excessively, that is what would consern me.
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According to my installer the Restrictor T is for higher elevations to help slow down burn time. He hasn't installed any in his area. If I wanted it, they are not exspensive ($35).
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I will let you know once I have it installed. I too, am concerned if it smokes excessively. I am at 8600' elevation, so that may be the issue with the damper.
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Just to let you know the CL4030 comes standard with the restrictor T. Too early to tell how it's effecting the operation of my sons unit.
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Ridgekid,
Good to hear about the restrictor in your son's 4030. We live at 8600' elevation, so it makes some sense that might work. I will keep you posted and it will be interesting to see the difference it makes with your son's unit. You have the 5036 as I recall, so the 4030 should use less wood, all things being equal (which they are not).
MTJAG
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I call CB and they said the t restrictor is to hepl keep the boiler from over heating and didnt recommend it for helping with wood consumption.He said to adjust the damper on the door.I do question the answer i got from CB.Makes sense that the restrictor would work to reduce wood use.
I did make a restrictor and Ill try it.
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Interesting. I thought the solenoid controlled the burn rate and therefore the heat of the stove. If it is to protect it from overheating, why don't they install it in all the 5036 units?
Thanks for the update from CB. It will be interesting to see what it actually does.
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It adjusted the door and seems to burn more wood.Next thing Ill do is make one that restricts the pipe down to 5''.
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hey, let me know how that turns out. I am definitely interested in a more efficient stove combination. Are you located at a high altitude?
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I would say that im at 1500 ft or so. Nothing I have read or have been told except on here leads me to believe that it has anything to do with elevation.I do think that the restrictor would help due to the fact that all the non gasser boilers use the same stack.seems to me that a smaller boiler would have a smaller pipe coming from it.
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Yea, it would seem to make sense that a smaller boiler would need a smaller stack. I didn't get the idea that a higher altitude would necessarily benefit from a damper over a lower altitude. Higher altitude has thinner air, so a restrictor would make it really puff for air it seems. Then you have the issue of cresote build up I suppose. We'll see when I get my 5036.
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Just my .02 - The restrictor T would prevent overheating, thus wood usage. Although elevation is not the main factor, pressure at higher elevations are. For example:
At 7000 ft, the standard barometric pressure is 23.088 inches Hg, and so water boils at 199.3 degrees Fahrenheit or 199.3 °F, which is equal to 92.94 degrees Celsius, or 92.94 °C. However, the pressure at 7000 feet will not always be exactly 23.088 in Hg (for instance, if a weather pattern changes the barometric pressure). It is more precise to specify the barometric pressure and ask the boiling point. Here is an equation to calculate the boiling point of water at any barometric pressure:
boiling point = 49.161 * Ln (Pressure in inches Hg) + 44.932
(where "Ln" is the natural logarithm in base e)
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_the_elevation_and_air_pressure_affect_the_boiling_point_of_water#ixzz1KXSIh63v (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_the_elevation_and_air_pressure_affect_the_boiling_point_of_water#ixzz1KXSIh63v)
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What does this baffle look like and where does it go into the chimney? Any one have any pictures to show?
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Top of page 17 on this link:
http://www.centralboiler.com/media/CBCatalog.pdf (http://www.centralboiler.com/media/CBCatalog.pdf)
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Thanks,
I see, it's just a reducer.
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Just got delivery of my 5036 unit today with the baffle. By the way, the baffle is just inserted in the pipe and is a reducer from 8" to 4". According to my dealer, another dealer has put them in the last 28 or so deliveries of classics and with the exception of one customer with a 6058, all have reported longer burns, less wood consumption. The downside is the also report more smoke when they open the door.
I posted a picture of it in my gallery today, so you can see it in place.
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Did you look atthe restrictor?can you masure the i.d. and o.d. of the restrictor.Ive been told that it reduces the pipe down to 6 '' and now your saying 4 ''.If you could measure it we would all know. Maybe you already have .Thanks
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The baffle is 4 5/8" inside diameter and 7 5/8" outside diameter. I put a picture up in the Gallery of it inside the chimney. Also, Ridgekid put up some info on barometric pressure and altitude that discusses how it might help to reduce the risk of overheating and thus wood consumption in a previous answer to this question. Pretty interesting.
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Finally got my 5036 going today. I was having trouble getting the temp to 185 and couldn't for several hours. The dealer told me to take out the restrictor to see if that would help bring up the temp....took it out and left it out for three hours...no change. I put it back in and fill the box and the temp started to climb. I guess the mistake I made was not building a big fire to begin with. Initially, I just built a small fire with limbs. Anyway, we are cooking now.
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How long or deep is that baffle?
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the baffle is 7" long. I took it out today to see if that is what is causing the creosote build up inside the unit. I had to break it free of the creosote surrounding it. Also, I am getting alot of smoke out the door and my dealer indicated it might be due to the baffle. So, I thought I would experiment to see how much more wood it uses without the baffle.
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Cool keepus posted. Ive found that if you open the door slowly it scavenges the smoke from thestove.You can get smoke from the stove without the baffle, if you open thedoor right after the damper closes.
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Is anyone trying the baffle this year?
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My son does in his CL4030. It came with one.
MTJAG has one in his CL5036 and I think he does have his currently installed.
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Yes, I have a CB5036 with the baffle in place. I get a lot of smoke out the door, unless it is right before a burn cycle, otherwise, it seems to draft fine. The question of whether or not it reduces the consumption of wood is one that I may not be qualified to answer. According to my dealer, for where I live, if I didn't have it in place, my stove would use about 3 more cords of wood per season, which would equate to about a25-30% reduction in wood consumption. I will tell you when the temperature is in single digits or lower, that stove will burn twice the wood that it typically burns when the temperature is only down to freezing. So, if I put in three 20"x9" pieces and about 3 20"x4" pieces when we are 32 degrees at night, it will be fine till mid day the next day. If the temperature is in single digits with the same load above, it will be out at 6am with nothing but ash and water temp at 160.
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Well i ordered my baffle today and Im looking forward to some wood savings.
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You will be a better judge of whether or not the baffle makes a difference in wood consumption since you have been burning without one. My guess is that it works. This is my first year and with temps all over the board, it's hard for me to tell. One night it will be in the thirties and I have wood still burning the next evening when it's time to load for the night. Other times, it's down in the single digits and by the time I get out there at 6am to check on it, it's sucking wind and there is nothing but ash.
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Would the restritor not choke the burn a bit makeing it slower? This would help overshoot, but seems like it would hurt recovery time. So if you get a big load for an extened time you might have an issue keeping the temperature up.
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Would the restritor not choke the burn a bit makeing it slower? This would help overshoot, but seems like it would hurt recovery time. So if you get a big load for an extened time you might have an issue keeping the temperature up.
What I have witnessed is that I sometimes overshoot up to around 187 and sometimes recovery is down to 172 with large rounds in there, but generally, I don't notice anything abnormal. Depending on the outside temperature, when the damper opens at 174, it takes about 20-25 minutes for it to close at 185....make sense?
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UPDATE: Thought I would just actually time the cycle time of my OWB with a stop watch today. From the time the solenoid opened at 174 degrees to the time it closed at 185 degrees, it took 10 minutes and 4 seconds. The outside temperature was 41 degrees when I timed it. It did not undershoot or overshoot the OWB set temperatures. My OWB was about 1/3 full with partially burnt wood when I timed it. That is with the baffle in the smokestack.
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Well I got the restrictor and installed it. $51.00 and used it 2days and removed it. Made my cb5036 a dog, slowing down recovery time in warm weather however it may be better with good wood and more demand It has been so warm here that the boiler would cycle once there 4hours and then the fire would go out.
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Unfortunately, I've not had any warmer weather in over a month. It's been near or well below freezing here since early November. Although, during the warmer weather of October, I've never had the fire go completely out with the baffle in place. Woody, what is your altitude? I'm at 8600' and that may have something to do with how it works...
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I'm at about 1000' above sea level.
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I'm at 2000 ft and don't have one. Don't need it.
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quite frankly, I don't know if I need one either. I can't determine if it is using less wood than if I didn't have one since this is my first year. I will say that it doesn't seem to impact the performance of the 5036. I've never had a fire go out and the unit seems to function as advertised with the temperature settings without over or under shooting too much. Clearly on cold nights with temps under zero, it will undershoot a few degrees, but I think that is normal.
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I don't know about the chimney adapter, mine does not have it, i'm at an elevation of 95ft above sea level. My problem is that the door is warped you can see it and also have put a T-square on it the top edge and the right side with door opening arm are both warped. This is where the rope gasket goes my Solenoid damper has worked fine the surface feel's clean. I have had my CB since Feb 2009 and run it all tear long, in the summer it keeps the hot water heated. Ive come home and heard it sound like a tea kettle 214deg cranked up heat in house house and had 135deg air coming out. I wouldnt trade my CB for anything it work's great I just some issue's with the door I hope to get fixed soon. :)
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I don't know about the chimney adapter, mine does not have it, i'm at an elevation of 95ft above sea level. My problem is that the door is warped you can see it and also have put a T-square on it the top edge and the right side with door opening arm are both warped. This is where the rope gasket goes my Solenoid damper has worked fine the surface feel's clean. I have had my CB since Feb 2009 and run it all tear long, in the summer it keeps the hot water heated. Ive come home and heard it sound like a tea kettle 214deg cranked up heat in house house and had 135deg air coming out. I wouldnt trade my CB for anything it work's great I just some issue's with the door I hope to get fixed soon. :)
sounds like the warped door needs to be replaced ASAP! That is going to keep the fire going all the time so aren't you seeing some high temperatures and constantly high burn rates?
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I have the baffle in place and it does seem to save wood but this is the coldest its been and the boiler seems to be abit slower to recover.Seasoned wood is a must during a cold snap, say less than 5*
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Heard about the baffle from this forum and i contacted my dealer about it. I have a cb4030 and my dealer told me the 4030 was originally designed to have a smaller diameter stack. But they made all the stacks for the 4030 5036 and 6040 the same to save on costs. So i installed it and i have noticed a 20 to 30% longer burn time on my unit.
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I have seen this post before, they say it's for boiler's in higher elevation's mine is at 98ft above sea level. The only thing I have done to mine is add a cover over the outlet of the chimney about 8in above the opening to keep water when it's raining from getting in it when the damper is closed. :thumbup:
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Seems to me since the 4030 has the resrictor down from 8" to 4" then the 5036 should have a 6" and the 6048 the standard 8".
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any new feed back on the use of the baffle?
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I have a baffle in my chimney. It does reduce wood use. So much so my dealer put one in his 6048
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im seeing a huge differance. lot longer burns.O put a home made diverter plate in just now. See what that does.