Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Central Boiler => Topic started by: Ridgekid on April 01, 2011, 07:16:06 AM
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We have had a US Stove Model 1500 in our basement for 15 years. Wood has never been a problem since we live on 15 acres. Now that the children have grown we don't have any help stocking our weekly supply of wood in the basement. It hasn't been the cleaniest heat, but at 150K BTU it kept us warm. We have a Trane heatpump for those warmer days we we don't have to burn firewood.
Our son, who lives nearby, is using oil heat and it is killing his monthly budget with the recent rise in oil prices. He also owns 15 acres.
So it was time to look into alternate heat that could still use our natural resources. We looked at the construction of differant models and were satisifed with Central Boiler. With the stack coming out the back and the water jacket design it appears to be a well built unit. The hieght of the flue pipe was also impressive.
We are working with the "local" distributor who happens to be 1.5 hours away. We worked out a deal to include the installation of two CB's. I'm getting the CL 5036 and my son the CL 4030. We agreed to provide the foundation and trench for the thermo-pex and the electric. We also made arrangements to have a "lifting device" to pick and set the units on the foundations. Otherwise our distributor would have to make two trips.
I've poured the foundation, and by chance the distributor had Thermo-pex availalble. So my trench has been dug and the electric and thermo-pex is installed. I've set this up 80' away from the house. I live on a ridge and my closet nieghbor is my son, 1/4 mile away.
Our units left Minnesota March 29th and I hope to get a phone call today letting us know the delivery/installation date. Ironcially we removed and sold the US Stove two weeks ago. Who knew winter wasn't over yet?
I look forward to sharing our expierances on this board.
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I have a 5036 that was picked up today and will be installed late next week. I poured the foundation today and dug the trench to my house, which wasn't easy since most of it was through granite.
All of my firewood will come from the National forest in the area. There is alot of standing dead timber here of both ponderosa pine and aspen. So, I will be burning a combination of these two species.
I will keep you posted on the amount of wood.
By chance, did your dealer talk to you about getting a damper put in your 5036? I have one coming with mine and am interested to see if it really reduces the amount of wood used as my dealer claimed.
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My dealer never mentioned the damper. I'll shoot him off an email and ask him about it. I assume this goes in the chimney? I see in the accessories listing a restrictor T that can be added.
He also did not recieve my unit yet. :(
I feel your pain about rocks in the trench. We dug ours by hand. We did not want a backhoe digging it up as it would leave massive ruts in the yard. We took our swimming pool down at the same time. We used the sand underneath it to cover the pipe. Then slowly backfilled pulling out the rocks. I don't know how, but we had just enough backfill to cover the pipe. Thats how many rocks we pulled out!
Most of our wood is oak. We season one year. So what I cut last year will be this coming winters burn. I have 2.5 cords left out of 5 we normally stock. I know this will need to be increased. We have already extended the area for the woodpile. We normally cut in the fall. Will have to start building the pile as soon as the weather breaks. It's been snowing for 4 days now.
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OH MAN O0 O0
LOOKS LIKE CENTRAL BOILER IS KICKING EVERYONE ELSE IN SELLING BOILERS LATELY!!!!
ALL WE HEAR LATELY IS PEOPLE BUYING CENTRAL BOILER....IN MY OPINION THEY PROVED THEMSELF
IF I WOULDNT BUILD MINE 2 YEARS AGO I WOULD HAVE GOT ONE OF THEM TOO.
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I think the restrictor T is the item that fits in the chimney. Supposely, they've had this out for a few months and it is reducing the amount of wood needed.
I have about three cords of aspen and pine cut, stacked and split now. My goals is to have about 8 cords set up by the end of May so that it has time to season. With it already being standing dead timber, that should pretty much do it. Typically, the forest service up here doesn't want you in the area cutting wood during the summer when we have so many people up here camping during that time.
CB is a pretty solid company from what I have seen on various forums. Not to say that other ODWB aren't good, it is just that CB has a good reputation for building dependable stoves and standing behind them.
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Hey MTJAG
You better get cuttin, If you are heating even a average size home you are gonna go thru way more than 8 cord in a Central Boiler, unless you live in the south., they are wood hogs.
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thanks for the head's up. You are probably right about that. No, I don't live in the south anylonger. I now live at about 8600' elevation in south central Colorado. I have infloor radiant heat in just less than 2000 square feet. I have 2x6 exterior walls with foam insulation.
Originally, with the e-classic 1400, my dealer was thinking I could make it on about 5 cords of wood. Now with the 5036, I probably need to adjust my volume...maybe alot. :bash: So, what are you thinking?
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I wouldn't be suprised if you went thru 15 cord, the radiant floor heat may save you some though :thumbup:
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Whew! 15 cords a year is alot more than I expected. I've got three cords already and was planning on cutting another five this month. Looks like I better enlarge my storage area.
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Wow- Thats more then I expected too. My 15 acres is going to look pretty good by the time I finish cutting the down trees. I have alot of tree top timber laying around after a select cut 5 years ago. If that isn't enough we have a sawmill 2 miles away.
BTW- I uploaded a few pics in the Gallery.
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That's a nice pad. I wish I would have thought of putting that additional step pad in front of mine. I just followed the pad specs for the 5036. That would have been nice in front, instead of standing in two feet of snow. But, I do have alot of granite in the ground. That is one reason I only dug my trench down about a foot. Chipping through granite bedrock with a pick and shovel is not a lot of fun. I will have to cover my pipes with 1" foam board to give it a bit more insulation.
Looks like you have a lot of hardwoods (oak) standing around your property from your picture. Good fuel source. I will be burning (apparently alot of)aspen and pond pine. You location looks alot like my home back in Louisiana.
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I like that saying at the bottom of your posts. Who originally came up with that?
Marty
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I called one of the co-owners of the sawmill. $600 for a triaxle load. Yeilds about 6 Cords of wood. If I do this I would have 8 cords to start off next year. In the meantime I would continue cutting what I have available and hopefully would be up to 12 cords my next fall.
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I like that saying at the bottom of your posts. Who originally came up with that?
Marty
The author of that quote is Rev. Philip Henry (1631-1696). Kinda puts things in perspective, huh?
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Would you mind if I re-quoted that? I had to re-read it a few times before I could fully grasp the meaning. It's actually a great perception on how we all should view our lives. I just read it to my wife and she rolled her eyes at me and went on to explain how old she thinks I am getting. Thanks,
Marty
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no way 15 cords! not with 2k sq ft house 2x6. your in the ball park 8 cords. anyone who uses that much wood should fix the main problem...get some new windows,doors,and insulation.
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You are certainly welcome to use it as you wish. I agree with your thoughts. Our intellect has been dulled with a culture of consumption and we seldom think beyond meeting our temporal desires. To consider the real value of something means we have to look beyond our immediate desires.
Hey, thanks for the comment!
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no way 15 cords! not with 2k sq ft house 2x6. your in the ball park 8 cords. anyone who uses that much wood should fix the main problem...get some new windows,doors,and insulation.
Hey, I hope you are right. This is new construction (2008), with really good windows and doors and foam insulation. Also, the house is solar passive design, so we get alot of sun in the southwest windows which heats up the house pretty good in the winter. The problem is once the sun goes down here in the west at 8600' elevation, the real temperture sets in.
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Found another source for Firewood. Triaxle of timber = 8 Cords= $550.
I went ahead and pulled the trigger and ordered. He's back logged right now and it could take a month before I see it.
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Not this week. Our boilers didn't get into the distributror until April 5th. (was due April 1st) and they are booked with jobs this week. In addition my "lifting device" moved off site (two doors down) to work another job somewhere else. His next availibity is unknown. He will be back to install a Sand mound, but not until the weather gets drier.
In the meantime my son will get his Thermo-pex from the dealer and get it installed. Then we'll just have to hurry up and wait.
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A date has been set! April 13th. We had to hire a differant escavator which I'm sure was more $ than waiting for the guy working two doors down. $100 transport fee for the equipment. $65 hour. Should be boiling water Wednesday night.
My son ran up for his thermo-pex this evening. Took a picture of the boliers sitting side by side with his camera phone. (If not following thread he has the 4030 and I'm getting the 5036.) I added the picture to my album.
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Ridgekid, sounds like we are similar time tables for installation. My 5036 is on the way now and I should see it around Wednesday of next week as well. The pad is ready, the trenches are ready, and I am ready.
I went out yesterday to the National Forest and started cutting some downed ponderosa pine. Just got one load to add to my three existing cords. My plan is to have about 10 cords by the end of May.
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I hope to have about the same by the end of May. We are boaters and I don't want to spend the summer cutting firewood.
If possible, gets some pics!!
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Yes, I will take some pictures and post them...you do the same.
I don't intend to spend the summer gathering firewood either, though I do want to get a very large jump on it by the end of May.
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Tomorrow is the BIG day!
The wife wants to be here for the big event so she is calling off work. I told her she is respondsible for pictures as they set the unit. I took a vacation day.
My elevation is 2000 ft. Night time highs will be in the 30's in Pittsburgh, so I guess I'll have to fire it it when they are done. Forecast is the same for the following 5 days. You know how it is in the mountains. Around here I'm usually 8 degrees cooler than Pittsburgh-year round.
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Good for you Ridgekid :thumbup:
Yes, you "have" to light it up.....don't want to be cold.....never can tell this time of year.
Sorry to say, but I have a feeling you will be wishing for next winter all summer long ;)
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I hear ya brother!
They will be here at 8am. My son just emailed me and confirmed ours will be unloaded first. "Lifting device" arrives at 9am. After they are both set, I'm guessing they will finish installation on ours. He lives in a trailer and it's going to be a little cold and damp in the morning. I offer a warm dry basement.
Pictures hopefully to be posted by late evening...........
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Ridgekid,
Congratuations! My dealer called me yesterday and told me it will be another week before he can deliver my 5036. Thankfully, it has warmed here over the past few days, down to 22 last night and up to 55 for daytime highs. Although, we are forecast for snow here in the mountain elevations for tonight. This is always a rough time in the Rockies, because some days are so great with clear blue skies and you're thinking..."maybe I should go ahead and plant the garden"....then the next day, you have two feet of cold white stuff everywhere. So, it is the 'tween days of spring here. Plant or build a fire?
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We are cooking water!
About two hours ago they completed my install and I started the fire (going to be low 30's tonight). The water from my well was 52F and it's up to 120F already. Watching the thermovalve to see when it will start sending water to the HTX. Then I'm turning up the thermostat.
Pictures are taken and will be posted later.
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Cool, you're gonna wonder why you waited so long to get one.
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I think your right. I love this thing already!
Here's some pics: http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=6 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=6)
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This is really a response to your now oft-commented-upon quote, MTJAG;
thanks for putting that up there. I am familiar with the quote via a man
named Jim Elliott who popularized it in the middle of last century. One of
the many books written about that great man is called "Through Gates
of Splendor" if anyone is looking for inspiration along the lines of that
quote...
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This is really a response to your now oft-commented-upon quote, MTJAG;
thanks for putting that up there. I am familiar with the quote via a man
named Jim Elliott who popularized it in the middle of last century. One of
the many books written about that great man is called "Through Gates
of Splendor" if anyone is looking for inspiration along the lines of that
quote...
thanks much for that information. I've not read that particular book, but I have heard of Jim Elliott. Is that the same account the "End of the Spear" movie was about?
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Before going to bed, I added 8 pieces of firewood. Stacked like a small hill inside. I turned the thermostat down in the house to 70F.
Woke up this morning and turned the thermostat back up to 73F. It's 32F outside.
Checked the OWB. Water temp 179F. Opened the door and my small hill was still there. Just a little lower as the wood underneath was almost gone. The wood almost gone was put in there yesterday during the initial start. About 1.5 hours later the damper opened as the water temp had dropped to 174F. It took less than 20 minutes before the damper closed again.
At the inital fill my PH was 7.0. (Thats well water) Per my installers instructions, we circulated and heated the water before adding the rust inhibitor. Around noon today I'll check the PH again.
As mentioned on this site. It's better to open the door when it's close to the time the damper is going to open. I would like to add to step back and away from the door to allow the smoke to clear. This is a good time to walk over to the woodstack and get some wood ready to load.
So far, everything is working well.
One more thing. I checked the air temp coming out of our ducts. We are pushing 125F air into the house this morning.
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Sounds great Ridgekid,
It didn't take long for my wife and daughters to figure out that we were not buying propane and "Dad" does all the wood stuff so keeping the thermostat @ 76...24/7 all winter is "cozy"
Now my inlaws....bless them.....on their side (seperate heater) like it about 80 ::)
Me, I love to see them all happy......
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Indeed, MTJAG, same Jim Elliott.
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Water Chemistry Report
I performed the first 24hr water test and the result was satisfactory. This after putting in the rust inhibitor yesterday.
PH 9.0 (Normal-8.0-9.5)
Nitrate 23 drops. (Normal 20-30 drops)
For the record Normal PH level before adding Rust inhibitor is 6.5-8.0. I was a 7.0.
I also started a Journal to keep track of Water Chemistry. I'll also use it to record start-up/Shutdown dates. I'll also record wood usage.
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Ridgekid,
Sounds like you are well underway and everybody's happy. Good to hear. Nice photos on the install by the way. Good to hear that your wood consumption wasn't all that much at 32 degrees overnight.
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Indeed, MTJAG, same Jim Elliott.
the "End of the Spear" is an amazing story!
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Morning all-
Woke up this morning and house is still warm. Your probably thinking why wouldn't it? I had my doubt because I have not put any more wood in the OWB since Wednesday night. Yesterday it was a little warm during the day and I did not want to introduce new wood since I still had some left.
It was 36F this morning and I checked the water temp. 175F. 15 Minutes later the damper opened and it took 10 minutes to heat it up to 185F. Took a walk to see how much wood was left. I could still idenitify 4 of the 8 pieces I put in Wednesday night.
It going to be warm today, but then the temps will be falling into the 50's for highs. I'll go stir the ashes later today and then restock. With the current forecast (70's by Monday) it will probably be the last fire for the season.
Once the unit is cold, I'll be modifying the piping in the basement. The installer was supposed to run the pipe to the ceiling and keep it between the floor joist to the HTX. We have plans to finish our basement sometime in the future.
BTW- (for Mtjag) Our limited Warranty does not start until Dec 2011. Per my Dealer CB does not start a warranty at the end of a season.
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Morning all-
Woke up this morning and house is still warm. Your probably thinking why wouldn't it? I had my doubt because I have not put any more wood in the OWB since Wednesday night. Yesterday it was a little warm during the day and I did not want to introduce new wood since I still had some left.
It was 36F this morning and I checked the water temp. 175F. 15 Minutes later the damper opened and it took 10 minutes to heat it up to 185F. Took a walk to see how much wood was left. I could still idenitify 4 of the 8 pieces I put in Wednesday night.
It going to be warm today, but then the temps will be falling into the 50's for highs. I'll go stir the ashes later today and then restock. With the current forecast (70's by Monday) it will probably be the last fire for the season.
Once the unit is cold, I'll be modifying the piping in the basement. The installer was supposed to run the pipe to the ceiling and keep it between the floor joist to the HTX. We have plans to finish our basement sometime in the future.
BTW- (for Mtjag) Our limited Warranty does not start until Dec 2011. Per my Dealer CB does not start a warranty at the end of a season.
That is GREAT news! I have been concerned about that and had just written off this year for a late in the season install. Man, that is really good to hear. CB is starting this relationship out right, that is for sure.
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Today could be the last day to operate the OWB. Temps will be going up next week. Thankfully I left it going this weekend. We had snowflakes this morning.
Whats happened since my last post?
1. Raking ashes: In foresight, I don't think I really needed to remove any. I removed what would be eqivulant to 4 gallons (in a 5 gallon metal bucket). They were still hot. In fact as soon as they were exposed to air they ignited. There were cinders in the ash. Although I have 74 SQ ft of space to burn in, I have only been stocking to the front. Really hasn't been cold enough for a FULL load of wood. The eight pieces I put in Friday night were almost gone Saturday morning. I added 8 more pieces and 3 were still there this morning. So the key is not to remove too many (if any) hot ashes.
2. Adding heat to the basement: We have a heatpump. When the house was built 18 years ago, the builder never intended to heat the basement. We have 6" exterior walls, well insulated, and last fall I added 14" of insulation to the attic. This brought the R value to the attic to R40. When we added the woodstove, we tied it into the duct work. It worked very well. Now it's gone and the basement is cold again. I had the orginal 2x9 register trying to heat 350 sq ft. (Half the basement). But when we pulled the woodstove, we had no return. So I added a 6x9 return register low, and close to the air handler, to pull in the cold air and added a 2nd 2x9 supply to the other end of the duct work. Both supply registers are near the ceiling. I wanted to be careful not to steal too much heat from the rest of the house. (2000 sq ft) So far it has had no effect on the additional heatload. The basement is about 68F vs the rest of the house at 75F. As soon as we finsih the basement and get the blocks covered and a floor covering, I think it will be perfect.
3. Water Temperture-After reading numerous sites about remote temp monitoring I added a Maverick Redi-Chek Remote cooking thermometer (ET-72) to what was supposed to be the inlet side of my HTX. Come to find out the dealer has my supply and return backwards. Something I can switch after I secure the OWB for the season. (in addition to getting the pipe to the ceiling and between the joist).
4. Aquastat- It works! We lost power for 5 hours yesterday due to high winds. When the electric came back on the water temp in the house was only 70F. This was because no water was circulating. As soon the circulation pump came on and the Aquastat saw 150F, it kicked the heatpump off, but the furnace fan stayed on.
Although not an expert, I feel alot more comfortabe on how the system works. Hopefully someone will find this post useful.
Here's a picture of the orginal Woodstove: http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=34;preview (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=34;preview) I paid $700 for it. I sold it for $200. I got my monies worth.
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Spoke with my CB dealer yersterday and he is suppose to deliver my boiler on Saturday. He didn't know if we would complete the hook up on Saturday and he might have to return on Monday. We had a little snow here on Wednesday and the propane was burning, so I am ready to get off of that.
I found an 18"dbh pondersoa pine tree (beetle kill) that had blown over the fence up near Medano Pass and put my new Husky to work. Got at least a cord out of that tree, so I now have roughly four cords ready to go. :)
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Your installer must really be busy. At least the wood cutting is keeping you busy.
I restarted mine yesterday, Low temps in the 30's again.
Going to add the DHWX to the system. I have Good Friday off and going to run up to the dealer and pick up the parts. As soon as the OWB is secured I'll install. He wanted $800 to install a sidearm. I'm doing it for under $300 and installing a 20 plate. Unless It gets cold again, I may not get to test that part of the system until next fall.
Keep us posted!
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Looks like we are suppose to get snow tomorrow afternoon...the day my dealer is coming with delivery. If we do get snow, he will not make it up my driveway. We have two 30% grades and a switchback, so it is a little dicey until it is cleared. He also told me his boom truck is only 2WD, so no chance if it is snowing. Hopefully, he will get here early and have it unloaded before the snow starts.
Looks like the hardest decisions will be when to keep it fired and when to shut it down for the summer.
Hope your sidearm stall goes well. Will post tomorrow.
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Are you allowed to say 4 letter words on this site? lol (SNOW) For petes sake it's the end of April! Hope they get you hooked up soon. Looks like you will get the chance to use yours for a little while anyway.
I'm not putting in a sidearm. Went with a 20 plate HX. Unfortunately it did not arrive Friday and is sitting 40 miles away at UPS terminal until Monday. Dealer ordered this Wed from a place in Wisconsin.
I went to the dealer and as promised, he provided (under warranty) replacement clamps, elbows, and Central pex so I could route the piping in the basement the way we had agreed on when he scoped the job. I also purchased more fittings, and central pex for the DHWX install.
What I did get done was cut in the two domestic water valves for when the 20 plate gets here. Silly me, cut the pipe for the HOT water line and was 30% into the install when I realized my mistake. :bash: I piped the orginal valve back in and had a leak. It was the outlet threads. CPVC fitting into a brass valve. 18 years old. So I pulled it out again and replaced the valve.
Then I went to work on installing the bypass line and two supply lines to the COLD water pipes for the forthcoming HX. I stopped at the HX valves not knowing exactly where I was going to install the exchanger or the proper distance between the inlet and outlet ports. I'm going to use Central pex from the valve to the HX.
Fire is almost out. Water is down to 165F. I'm going to shut off the OWB, close the valves and get part of my re-routing done today. I'll leave it off (since we are getting warm weather) until I get the DHX installed. I don't think I want to leave the HX's dry all summer, so I'll have to get the boiler started one time to get the water circulating past the thermo valve. Once she's cold again, I fill the boiler to the top to kept the oxygen out.
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I accomplished what I set out to do today. What a pain in the ***. That stuff don't bend worth a crap and every connection I broke loose needed to be cut off (carefully) with a gremal.
Do here's what I did: (Wish I had 4 more elbows-I would of kicked the bottom back towards the wall and went straight up)
http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=37 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=37)
And this is the way the Dealer did it:
http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=36 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=36)
Just have to finsih four connections when the DHWX arrives.
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Don't you need that wire in conduit running up that block wall?
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Yoder- Not a requirement. In fact outlets run the same way as long as they are 18" from the floor (Remember this is in the basement)
BTW- I lost less than 2 gallons from my system doing this mod.
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Your routing job looks a lot better than the dealer's. Most people that work in basements just think they can throw stuff around anywhere. At least that has been my experience. I suppose they think that you are not living there, so just use all the space you want to waste.
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Your probably right about the installation in a basement. As previously noted, we plan on finishing the basement in the near future. The dealer knew this. Total lack of communication between Salesman and installer.
We plan to drywall the ceiling to within two joints of this end of the basement. Here I will use a suspended cieling. For the vertical pipe (with the thermo valve) I was planning a vented box. A vent on the bottom and top. The thermo valve gets hot, might as well vent that heat into the space.
Just waiting for my 20 plate to show up. It's going to be in the 70's the next few days so it will be the end of the week before I fire up for the test run, which includes looking for leaks.
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Hi all.
I too just purchased a 5036 and am waiting for delivery. A buddy of mine has an aqua-therm so that is what pushed me into the owb market, that and 2.09 a gallon for propane.
This unit will be installed in northern Wisconsin, and will be feeding a 1600 sq. ft. home and a new attached garage addition 760 sq ft with 600 finished above.
This is a great site and have enjoyed the posts.
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Guess you found me! I just posted something on your post. Not sure if it will help you make a decision or gave you another way to heat up the additional space. Wish you best of luck in what ever you decide.
Welcome to the club!
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Hi all.
I too just purchased a 5036 and am waiting for delivery. A buddy of mine has an aqua-therm so that is what pushed me into the owb market, that and 2.09 a gallon for propane.
This unit will be installed in northern Wisconsin, and will be feeding a 1600 sq. ft. home and a new attached garage addition 760 sq ft with 600 finished above.
This is a great site and have enjoyed the posts.
I just took delivery of my 5036 today. Still not hooked up, but is in place. Will be hooked up on Wednesday. I posted pictures on my gallery today if you care to see. I purchased a baffle/restrictor with mine and there are pictures on the site for that as well. The baffle is just inserted in the pipe and is a reducer from 8" to 4". According to my dealer, another dealer has put them in the last 28 or so deliveries of classics and with the exception of one customer with a 6058, all have reported longer burns, less wood consumption. The downside is the also report more smoke when they open the door.
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Pitcures look great. Bet you can't wait to fire it up!
My sons 4030 has the same restrictor T. (Standard with 4030's). I've been too busy to with other projects to see how his is operating. I doubt he's burning alot of wood right now. Our daytime temps have been over 70F.
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Yes, I am. I worked on it a bit today, just putting the Alpha pump on and running the electric lines to the house, but tomorrow we may get it finished. It is still freezing here...temp currently at 32 degrees.
More later.