Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: NCredneck on April 04, 2011, 08:35:01 AM
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Anyone put in a wood boiler and regret doing it? Just too much work on your pretty days that you could be doing other things you would rather do. Only splitting wood and doing it just to pay the thing off and then burn bought wood? anyone!
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I have yet to meet anyone that has regrets on buying a OWB.. I do tell people that are thinking of buying a OWB..You gotta like doing the wood part... Wood part really no different than having a wood stove in your house really.. The price of #2 heating oil has pretty much paid mine off..
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there have been a couple here that have said they rushed into it and after cutting wood for one or two years felt it best to resell them and go back ot other heat sources
i would say if you have grown up with sood ro have a indoor fireplace or indoor wood funrnace then you know what it takes to run an OWB think also of the cost...lets say 10,000 with all your underground piping and heat exchanges and fitting and stuff (just for average) now think of what that 10,000 could do for you in insulation and things to seal up your home and reduce yoru heating costs. you may find that you could spend the money on insulation, doors, windows, caulking etc. andn reduce your home heating bills to an "acceptable level" and thus not need to cut wood?
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Of course I can't say yeah or neah yet. (Still waiting for delivery) But to comment on your wood cutting. We have been doing that for over 20 years. Why a OWB? This will be the first time to have the "mess" all outside. I'm looking forward to it.
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I haven't got one yet. I have two fireplaces inside but have gas logs in one and don't use the other one. I have recently replaced windows and the house is already insulated pretty well....for me its just about saving money and being warmer. I have all idea that lp gas will go much higher and I am already spending 2200.00 for last years gas. My biggest fear of getting one is that I will be a slave to cutting and splitting. I aint afraid of the work....just not sure if I want my fishing and other activities to suffer. the system I am looking at is bout 8500 total + or - 400.00 or so but then I need to put in a pole shed to store wood etc. Course I've been wanting that anyhow. I am probably looking at 4 to 5 years before it pays back and the initial cost is a bummer. I don't really have to buy wood but might buy some just to not have to cut wood all the time. Most people say if you gotta buy wood it really ain't worth it. Still thinking and researching....lol!
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I have electric heat and part of my reason for getting my OWB is so if I lose power my gen. will run the pump and my furnace blower with no problem but it is not big enough to run the electric furnace.
I live out in the sticks and have lost power before.
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I haven't got one yet. I have two fireplaces inside but have gas logs in one and don't use the other one. I have recently replaced windows and the house is already insulated pretty well....for me its just about saving money and being warmer. I have all idea that lp gas will go much higher and I am already spending 2200.00 for last years gas. My biggest fear of getting one is that I will be a slave to cutting and splitting. I aint afraid of the work....just not sure if I want my fishing and other activities to suffer. the system I am looking at is bout 8500 total + or - 400.00 or so but then I need to put in a pole shed to store wood etc. Course I've been wanting that anyhow. I am probably looking at 4 to 5 years before it pays back and the initial cost is a bummer. I don't really have to buy wood but might buy some just to not have to cut wood all the time. Most people say if you gotta buy wood it really ain't worth it. Still thinking and researching....lol!
seem you are an avic outdoors kind of guy..it is my opininon that you would not become a slave to cutting and splitting. i have one son that helps me cut our wood. we get about 1 full cord on our little trailer and we try and cut one full load each time we go (at least) so we usually spend 10 days out a a whole winter cutting wood. we try 9so far) to cut down only dead elm trees and they die here quick enough that they rarely get over 14 inches across. we split nothing and cut them to 16 inches wide and when i load the stove i just set them on the door sill sideways and roll them in with a long handles shovel. we try and stay a year ahead of our wood needs so that we go to the bush to cut wood when we want and not when we are out of wood. you will find if you go to cut wood when you want it is an enoyable chore...if you go becasue you have to it feels more like work.
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No regrets here. This is my third season with the unit and it has paid for itself and the installation costs already. I don't cut my own wood, I have two suppliers that I buy from cut, split and delivered. I don't have a good wood shed situation yet so I am handleing the wood more than I want to. I hope to build a wood shed this year that will hold two years supply of wood and be airy enough to season the wood properly. I look forward to the workout I get from stacking the wood to dry but I hate moving the wood to the shed???
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teburman, you mind sharing what system and previous energy cost ya had....must be huge to be able to pay for it in the 3rd season with bought wood....I know I would be tickled it I didn't have to cut and split it....
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willieg,
you are ahead of the game...get that youngin to help and stay ahead by a year or two....my hero....lol...
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2200 gallons per year at $3.69/ gallon is what I based my calculations on. Three years might be a slight exageration but it is close. I am looking at the savings from a landlord's point of view - I no longer provide hot water to the tenants they pay for their own now. I always forget that so this is not true apples to apples comparison since I no longer heat water for four appartments, sorry for the confusion.
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oops didn't answer all of your question - I am using an ASPEN 175.
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OK not being used to heating with wood, I decided to see what it would be like to cut and split some. After 4 hours of hard work for both me and my son, I have a cord of wood. Granted I split some just because I wanted to and probably could feed a boiler without splitting (I just wanted to see what effort it took to split a cord). I figure I am 1/8 of the way there for next year if I only use 8 cords for the winter heating. I can tell you that if I buy a boiler....I WILL end up buying a gas splitter..lol..not that I mind the work but hey, if I can do it faster thats a good thing. I figure a 20 ton should do what I need to do..any suggestions?
I really wish I could estimate how much wood I would really use. I read all sorts of usage...I know it depends on the house and location and temperatures and stuff. I have a well insulated house but nervous about usage before buying a boiler ..don't want to regret it...
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I have a 20 ton splitter and it splits anything I have ever put on it. The smallest new ones around here are 22 ton.
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NCredneck
From all the reading I have done and from my own use, if you figure on 10 full (4X4X8) cords of wood you should be in the ballpark. So, more than 5, less than 20 ;)
BTW to answer the original question.....NO :thumbup:
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I don't think you will regret getting one. The people I have heard about that were unhappy thought it would save them all that money but don't expect to do much more than they did with gas. I don't know what your weather is like down there but I would assume it isn't real cold. If you get a decent boiler and are heating an average size house I would guess you will use closer to 5 cord per year if it is dry. 10 cord seems to be about the average here unless they are heating a shop or something or have poor insulation. Also garages use a lot more heat than most people think they do.
The other thing to remember is that the whole point of getting it is to save money. If you get the most expensive everything there is a good chance it will never pay for itself or will take twice as long.
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i guess it depends on where you have to drive to cut your wood and what is involved getting the wood loaded . had a friend who had to wheel it from the woods, no way. i cut on my own farm and its not that big of a deal and i was one that was worried, not a young pup anymore. the main reason is not having to split, it makes it so easy, i really try to avoid large logs unless they are fallen. been doing it for 3 years now, keep 1 year ahead like willie, i store it in one of my barns in 12 foot legnths for 2 years and then cut it by the furnace and stack it. hope to keep doing it for years,
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The only acceptable level to me is $0 going to the energy gods. As long as people continue doing the same ole thing and just writing the check, energy companies will always have you by the b@lls! Look at gathering wood as that gym membership you would have gotten but no longer need. $ saved there too. If all you can do is buy wood, then by all means find an alternative. I personally have never bought firewood. That is defeating the purpose of wood burning in my book. For the record, my home used to be heated,cooled, cooking, water heating, etc for about $150 mo.(all energy, lp,electricity) . That bill rose to about 300 avg just by rate increases! That is why I chose to go with OWB and get rid of LP costs anyway. That 300 avg was with me burning wood in an airtight stove as supplemental heat and camping in basement. My home is newer(I built it to highest std of the time in late 90's. I love my OWB. I may build my next one, who knows. I would rather pay for an OWB and give someone a job, than give my money to an energy leech.
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Hey Guys,
$550 a tri ax loaded with prime tele ph pole size PA oak. I get 2 yrs for my quadrafire wood stove in basement. Does fine for basement and first floor. Don't do much for 2nd floor. Sooooo, the Lp bill has went from bearable to insane this past year!
My life actually became "unbearable" when the bride opened the nice neat plastic baggie left hanging on our door knob. In the bag, the note reads like this, "sorry we missed you, but we are glad to fill your propane tank". "That will be $800 in US Funds to be paid in full w/in 30 days". So, times were tough the past month, as business was slow. We sent 1/2 payment and promised remainder next month. Immediately received past due notice, and demand for payment-in-full!
P & M gasifier Optimizer 250 in the works! My son's college fund just got lighter! Now I only got enough for 10 minutes of college, instead of 15 min!!!
Even if the new furnace was to burn the whole tri ax load in one year, we would still be way ahead of the game! I can't see it burning a whole lot more than the old wood stove, though. I load it 4-5-6 ties every day, and should only need 2X per day w/new.
I still would much rather pay my friend (logger) than Superior Propane, here in NE PA!
Bill
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Bill- Your either my neighbor or know the same guy I just ordered a tri axle from (Same price).
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How many cords of wood do you end up with on a triaxle load? I think I got enough wood around here but to just cut what I can that falls,weed out the less desireable species and such but to have a load dropped by the stove and already felled good wood....thats a plus that may be worth some money.
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My sources tell me it's almost 8 cords.
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I had been looking and thinking for several years but just couldn't quite push myself into getting a OWB until last year something happened that was so good to get me into this that you won't hardly believe it all. A gas pipe line is coming across my farm and the right of way money more than paid the stove and installation. Now the next part is neat, the pipe line cuts across a steep wooded section in the pasture so they need to cut down about 25 trees, mostly wild cherry and locust, so they get an estimate on the value of the trees and have to pay me for the trees but since they don't want them they will stack the logs for me down on the level grassy part where it is easy to get to. I get to sell the trees and then keep them plus they cut on a steep slope and drag down to where I can get a trailer right to them. No regrets on the stove, so far its fun.
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gspren
Now that is what I would call blessed/ lucky as heck and a perfect time to buy a boiler. Wow, is all I can say. I wish I could get that lucky...it would be my luck that the county would annex the property...pay me half of what its worth...increase my taxes on the rest because of an improvement that I might could use and by taking my land reduce any ability to cut my own wood to heat with..lol.
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Sounds like you and I have the same kind of luck NC redneck
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Ridgekid,
My friend's tri ax log truck holds 10 plus cords. He ain't shy about loading it right to the top! Some have said it defeats the purpose of burning wood, but that is a lot of pick-up truck loads. On the pro side, I don't burn any fuel truckin it home, don't hurt my myself loading and unloading. It is a good deal all around for me.
Going on short road trip Tuesday to buy the Thermo-pex pipe. Price is $12.50 a ft. Seems to be going rate. Central Boiler dealer has in stock. While there, I will look at the E2400. Sort of got my sight set on that P & M opt250 though. Will keep open mind.
Bill
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Is it dry? 10 cord of green oak weighs 60,000+
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I'll be happy with at least 8 cords. We'll see what I end up with once it's cut and stacked.
Where you going for the Thermopex? Falls Creek?
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Going to D & R Country Design, Palmerton. Near Broadheadsville (Poconos). Gents' name is Randy.
Anxious to get my project underway! 12.50 a ft seems going rate for Thermopex, from the shopping around I did. Should save on shipping but still have to put fuel in my truck. Times sure STINK in that dept!!!
Neighbor gave me 2 PU truck loads of Poplar and shag bark hickory, yesterday. Not the best, but close and free. Will use to finish off year, into Apr. and May '12.
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I mis-read your orginal post. I thought you were in NW Pa. Thought I might save you a trip to the Poconos.
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I have had my Central Boiler for 5 years. Regardless of what anyone say's it's a lot of work to keep going. I have resorted to buying wood even though I live on 26 wooded acres. Don't get me wrong I like the system and feel good that I don't have to burn oil. Have oil back up and sometimes I use it. Can easily burn 15+ cords in the winter for a 3200 sf house and garage.
Once you have the wood and it's close to the boiler then it's fairly easy- but not FREE by any means. If I took my time and labor I could easily buy oil, but thats not my goal. I don't like oil and all the problems it causes.
In Eastern CT.
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Went to pick up Thermopex and found it to be only 3/4" ID. Probably would have been adequate for my short 47ft run, but declined the smaller dia stuff. I specifically asked if was 1"id and was told it was until I drove all the way to pick it up! A ploy to get me there to look at there brand furnace?
Will be off to New Jersey next week for urecon pipe which is full 1" id.
Looked at the eclassic 2400 and still would rather the P & M opt 250. Seems simpler yet stronger built. Also maybe P & M design will probably be more efficient.
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Bill-
Funny about PEX huh? I go out to find fittings for 1" and the ID for 1 inch PEX is 3/4"? If your only running 47' I can tell you if would of worked. I ran 85' underground, 14' to the FHX and 16' to the DHWX For a total of 230' (total run) and have more than enough heat. Recovery (when the damper opens) is less than 20 minutes.
Maybe the guru's could answer this-Would larger PEX recover as quickly?
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Pex is never measured in ID. The urecon just happens to be close to 1" ID. It is really metric. 1" pex is actually closer to 7/8" than 3/4" ID
Pex is the same outside diameter as copper. 1" ID copper is 1-1/8" OD 1" pex is 1-1/8" OD. Pex wall thickness is 1/9th the diameter of the pipe so the larger you go the thicker it gets. 1-1/4" pex will be as little bigger inside that the metric (1" ID) and will be a lot easier to find fittings for.
Pex-al-pex does use the true ID measurement.
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blakeusa, I believe you. I don't have a boiler yet..still researching..but I can see that I would have a love/hate relationship with one. Hate to do whats required for the seasons worth of fuel..but love it once I did. I can see that 15 cords would really get to me and I would probably buy some too. I was hoping to get by with burning maybe 7 or 8 here in NC but who knows...lol
The other thing is the initial investment...man I really don't want to spend 8 to 11k and realize I can't wait for it to be paid for so I can buy wood or sale it..
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NC,
In your research, may I suggest you consider a gasifier? I am in Michigan and have only used 6 or 7 cords since October 2010. Does it get that cold for long stretches in NC? I have an old farm house with no insulation and we keep it uncomfortably warm all winter. I mean no disrespect in any form. Yes, it does cause some inconvenience, but I think in the long run you will be happy with your selection of burner. I understand your worry of the up front cost, I still can't believe I coughed up that much money. It may well take longer to pay for itself in the South than in colder climates. I do know I like the heat from wood more. We ran out of dry wood and went back to propane, 73 on wood sure feels warmer than 73 on propane. I can't explain it. Should be the same, like a ton of cotton and 2000 pounds of gold. I'm outta shape so the extra work is good for me, the wood warms me 5 or six times where paying the gas company just boils my blood until the check clears. A friend of mine was paying $1600 per MONTH for gas 2 years ago. My wood cost about $150 for all season, but we cut it ourselves.
Again, not picking a fight or disrespecting anyone. My version of no regrets whatsoever. I plan on heating water and drying clothes with mine next season, making it pay for itself even quicker.
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Yeah Oldchenowth,
I have considered a gassifier....course that drives up the price around 2k or 3k more..uggg. I like the P&M from the web views of it but I have seen a HeatmasterSS thats not a gassifier and for 3 k less....I am leaning that way if I even take the plunge... biggest reason is it has back and forth airflow which helps make it more efficient, saves some money and I can burn some green stuff too. I think I spend about 450.00 a month on gas..for around 4 months total so thats a little slower on the payback. I gotta decide whether to take the plunge or not within the next couple months I guess. What boiler do you use?
Just another note...If money was no consideration....I like the garn unit.....but pricey as heck!
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I regret not planning better! I will be redoing my setup this summer. I installed it three winters ago in a rush with the help of my son and friend, they did most of the work and we didn't install any smarts. It is either on or off controlled by factory installed control that only reacts to high/low limits. I plan to re-configure the controls to react properly to various conditions such as fire out, over heat, low temp return water etc.
But at $3.94 a gallon I am very happy that we installed the unit. Even though I buy my wood the saving is substantial - I am paying $210 per cord (128 cu ft) cut split and delivered and I used 7 cords last season instead of ~ 2,000 gallons of oil
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NCredneck,
I have a Wood Doctor HE 5000. You will see different things on the WD, so judge for yourself. I happen to really like my WD. I do see a few flaws that I may or may not revise to fit my situation. I burned about 6.5 full cords this last year. 1800 sq ft farm house with little to no insulation.....yet! Initial investment IS steep, but my bet is the long run. I do not see oil, gas or propane going down in price and grandma has 60 acres of woods. I got very lucky, Obama paid me $6500 to buy my house and I promptly gave it to Arthur Turple + about another $1500. Menards got the other $1000 for pex and fittings. I truly believe mine is already paid for itself in the first year. My wife keeps it at around 75 non stop. Propane would kill me to try and do that. All I know is I won't go back to propane except as a backup. Besides my gut would be much larger than it is if I didn't cut wood.
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i have had my home made stove now for 11 winters..cutting wood is just a chore and an enjoyable one IF you go for wood when you want too not because you have too. i stay at least one year ahead and that way i can choose the days i go to the bush. we try and make a family day of it...my youngest son is away at university now and he actually looks forward to coming home and spending a weekend in the bush. My oldest son lives very close by and he also likes the job. My wife goes along as well and sometimes makes a campfire lunch. We have been soing this since day one. I have one of them winches that goes on the back of a tractor and i cut the trees down and haul them out to a flat spot for the boys to cut up, my wife piles the brush and burns it and then we all fill the dump wagon together. like i said, for our family it seems to be an enjoyable job...if you choose the nice days to go and go because you want to...not because you are out of wood and have too.
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WillieG's got it right, you have to get enough wood stockpiled so you don't have to cut when you don't feel like it. I am at least 2 years ahead all the time, then if its to warm out or you just don't feel like doing the work you don't have to. Really the only time I ever mess with wood when it is to warm out or I don't feel like it is when I get a good wood score from someone usually already cut up. :thumbup:
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I had been looking and thinking for several years but just couldn't quite push myself into getting a OWB until last year something happened that was so good to get me into this that you won't hardly believe it all. A gas pipe line is coming across my farm and the right of way money more than paid the stove and installation. Now the next part is neat, the pipe line cuts across a steep wooded section in the pasture so they need to cut down about 25 trees, mostly wild cherry and locust, so they get an estimate on the value of the trees and have to pay me for the trees but since they don't want them they will stack the logs for me down on the level grassy part where it is easy to get to. I get to sell the trees and then keep them plus they cut on a steep slope and drag down to where I can get a trailer right to them. No regrets on the stove, so far its fun.
Well the pipe line crew finally got here and it looks like about 7-8 cord of wood still in logs. I wish it would be cooler but I am still getting some cutting done. Tuesday morning there were 6 Cat dozers in my front field, 4 D8s and 2 D7s plus 2 big Cat excavators working the pipeline area, probably over a million dollars worth of equipment making the farm look like a major highway was coming through instead of a 30 inch gas pipe. It will be an interesting summer.