Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: tinfoilhat2020 on August 25, 2017, 05:42:41 AM
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Can a 3ft section of 6inch double wall SS pipe twist right on tp the new G200??? I'm getting a new unit installed here next month and I just want to be prepared from the pictures it looks like they change something over the course of the last year or two when the chimney extensions on the units themselves.
Thanks
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The new ones are supposed to be universal so you can use either standard single wall pipe or double walled.
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You need to buy an adapter for the double wall. You can use any brand now instead of having to use the selkirk ultra temp like before.
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Yes, a single to double wall adapter.
It comes with a pretty heavy gauge 18" long single wall 6" pipe to extend it.
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Can I ask why they use double wall when the stack temps are so low? Is this something for the UL tag?
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Can I ask why they use double wall when the stack temps are so low? Is this something for the UL tag?
Wit the already low stack temps too much single wall would cause the temp to drop even more leading to condensation.
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Makes sense. Thanks!
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Oh so condensation is bad even in a stainless boiler?
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Oh so condensation is bad even in a stainless boiler?
If it mixes with ash it could hypothetically form a weak acid, although I’ve seen stainless exposed to some wickedly corrosive stuff on the farm and still not hurt it.
I could see with enough single wall pipe a stack could actually freeze shut.
I could also see if somebody didn’t follow directions and used a bunch of single wall black stove pipe from a hardware store or something the stack would rot out in very short order.
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There was a thread on I think hearth.com where a guy with an indoor gasser froze his chimney shut with condensation. I'm talking like 30' chimney tho. :)
I be more concerned about plugging the airflow than corrosion. The whole fan assembly and chimney is stainless.
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Actually got to thinking about this a bit.
I looked at the keeper I built to hold a stop pin in on the breakaway wing springs on our sprayer, used leftover 409 pipe from my waste oil boiler, the piece of 1/4” mild steel flat is rusty as can be, the 409 is still shiny.
Looked at the electric transfer pump I put together a few years ago to handle 28% and 32% UAN, the stainless age iron frame is shiny, the mild steel bolts holding the 10hp electric motor and pump to it will either need cut or broke off, they ain’t turning.
Looked at our fertilizer spreader, this things gotta be 40 years old at least, it was used when Dad bought it and I was still too young to spread fertilizer so maybe 50+ years, the stainless box is fine, the original rear assembly rotted away years ago, we replaced that with stainless, still shiny, it’s spread thousands of tons of fertilizer over the years, replaced all the roller chains with stainless as mild steel ones would last at best two years before rusting solid. Have replaced all the leaf springs a couple of times, fertilizer even eats spring steel, have replaced the axles once as well. Have replaced all the bearings with stainless ones as well as regular steel bearings would last at best two years.
This is hypothetical at best, but if a person had enough single wall pipe on it like say if they had to meet one of those arcane minimum height requirements, you could get a lot of condensation, that could mix with the flyash and literally make mud inside the pipe or even gum up the exhaust fan.
But when it comes down to it, doesn’t natter if your buying a car or a boiler, by buying it your basically agreeing to follow the manufacturers policy on best practices to maintain your warranty. If they say an oil change every 5000 miles at a certified dealer, then thats where you get your oil changed, if they say X kind of pipe and the wood should be under a certain percentage, then so be it. Ditto on keeping it dry and avoiding having ash and moisture mix.
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Agree, it's more about making a mess inside the boiler than any corrosion issue in a 409 boiler.
Had a call yesterday from a person looking into buying a furnace. Said the CB dealer told him next load of CB's will have stainless fireboxes. Was told he needs to buy one he has in stock now with mild steel because the new ones will spider crack when you throw wood in them. I bet that line will change if he gets his current stock sold.
If your selling stainless it's hard to be honest about mild steel and vise versa. Tendency is to look for anything to promote your product right or wrong.
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Cracking, hmmm, remember that photo I posted of the Magic Liberty bus on Prince Edward Island a couple of years back, I know I still have it somewhere, well anyway why do you think I was there, yup you guessed it, his 3 month old boiler had cracked on the right side rail and was leaking, that and several more doing the same are part of the reason they had me do all those upgrades. Now don't get me wrong, at that time they took care of the issue 100%. They admitted that they had made a mistake by putting a solid rail into the fire box and that the fan motors were overheating with the new door on the back, I sure wish that they had kept up the philosophy.
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Yep, my distributor came out with a template, cut the hole in the door then installed the fresh air intake for the fans, easy enough to do and I could have done it myself, but they did have a template and all. Also recall they slit the rails to prevent that cracking.
Some stainless is a lot worse about spider cracking than others. Whatever the material in our fertilizer box is cracks horribly at certain welds if you keep rewelding with stainless rod, I’ve taken to welding those with 7018, stopped the cracking and just enough stainless mixed with the 7018 that the welds didn’t rust either. I’m guessing 316 maybe? I usually watch the sparks from cutting or grinding then grab a rod or roll of wire that I know works with those sparks. Real hi tech out here after all.
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I seem to remember a guy on here a few years back with a stainless boiler that rotted out in only a few months from a salt water filter on his pool and a stainless heat exchanger, I think it as well was 409, Marty, you always comment on your exhaust on your truck being 409, how do you think it would hold up if 3 years in you were to put it in a pressure test?
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Yes, that was our mistake. Stainless cannot take salt. Need a titanium heat exchanger for salt water pools. Stainless heat exchanger pitted out dumping saltwater in the furnace which evaperated the salt and pitted the top of the water jacket. The good thing is he sent his water samples in and knew something wasn't right but took a little to figure it out. Heatmaster honored their warranty even though it wasn't the stoves fault and gave him a new tank and we installed it free. Learned a lesson and had a happy costumer. It was actually a 3yr. not month deal.
304 heatexchanger, 409 furnace
MF10000E furnace hooked to steel fabrication shop w/ 4 hot air furnaces and house w/2 furnaces and 2 add on blowers and swimming pool. Burning straight coal. Running good ever since.
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I seem to remember a guy on here a few years back with a stainless boiler that rotted out in only a few months from a salt water filter on his pool and a stainless heat exchanger, I think it as well was 409, Marty, you always comment on your exhaust on your truck being 409, how do you think it would hold up if 3 years in you were to put it in a pressure test?
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Salt water pool heat exchanger should've been Titanium NOT stainless.You can't blame boiler failure 8)on poor plumbing choice. Even quads are using stainless exhaust very successfully so I don't understand your thoughts.
My Eclassic 2300 is starting its year #9 with a tiny leak welded 18 month ago .With that said my Central Boiler dealer was at County plowing match and had Edge 550 stainless on display.ONLY stainless model prices listed LOL . I think the writing is on the wall over stainless vs plate steel. 8)
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I seem to remember a guy on here a few years back with a stainless boiler that rotted out in only a few months from a salt water filter on his pool and a stainless heat exchanger, I think it as well was 409, Marty, you always comment on your exhaust on your truck being 409, how do you think it would hold up if 3 years in you were to put it in a pressure test?
You mean besides the normal pressure that stainless flex exhaust pipe is meant to carry? I’d say pretty well considering its over ten years old and the rest of the aluminized exhaust system is rotting off. All was installed new at the same time, actually the rest of the exhaust system has several patches in it. I’ll drop it, have the local muffler shop bend new mild steel aluminized pipes, and keep the 409 flex pipe. If I get another ten years out of it that will make that straight truck 47 years old.
Something else that needs considering, stainless steel heat exchangers are usually 316 stainless, while ones meant for salt water are titanium. 409 is sometimes called titanium enhanced stainless steel. Whose boiler rotted out from salt water? Which stainless was used? I’m wondering if not so much the salt but mixing the salt with boiler treatment meant for stainless didn’t have some sort of weird chemical reaction? Or the salt effected the conductivity and electrolysis ate the boiler? Over the years I’ve many a sleeve come out of a diesel with pits in it, as well as cast iron and aluminum water necks off thermostat housings with holes ate clear thru em. Two different things between diesel pits and actual electrolysis but they both have a common denominator, weird things can happen when something falls out of design specs.
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Nope, not blaming the boiler nor any particular company, the point that I'm making is that there are situations where stainless works well and then there are places where it doesn't work as well, the consensus here has been that stainless is indestructible, it is not. Yes Shepard boy we are speaking of the same unit, in fact as I told Eldon at the distributor meeting when he told the story, they way it was handled was a deciding factor to get me on board with the product, to bad that practice didn't continue.
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Yes, mlappin, it may have been 316 stainless on the heat exchanger. And you are right, the salt effected the conductivity and electrolysis pitted the boiler.
There is a reason catalytic converters are made out of 409. Road salt doesn't seem to effect it like circulating hot water with a mineral inside an engine or boiler. That's why an aluminum head, which doesn't rust, will pit with out the proper antifreeze additives.
Looking back on these messups, whether its us or the company we sell for, it's a stress at the time but in the end it's the best PR and advertising we get. Gives us all a chance to show what we are made of when we are under the gun and can't figure out what's going on.