Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: slimjim on November 05, 2017, 06:27:07 AM
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Yup you guessed it, a HeatMaster G 400 ( don't ban me yet Marty. ) I'm actually wondering if anybody else has experienced this before, I'm on the road and won't be able to help him until probably Monday evening. So anyways he bought last fall and ran well all winter, boiler was cleaned this spring, he fired back up a few days ago and all was working as it should but last night he called and said that the shaker handle would not move and that there is lots of smoke coming from the damper plate up front, I'm thinking plugged tubes but he says they were working fine yesterday morning, last night one crank on the handle and they jammed solid. I did have an issue with a G 400 last year that the locking coupler on the shaft loosened up and would not move the shaft but it never stuck the mechanism that lifts the turbulators, oh and by the way, this customer says the turbulators seem free and can be lifted slightly without the handle, it seems the issue is in the shaft.
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Why would he have smoke from the damper plate unless the hx tubes were plugged up? Sounds like on the surface that this is a simple mechanical problem where the shaft has loosened or bound up on something but smoke from the damper plate because of an obstruction?
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He also is one of those guys that put his unit inside the shed and without now taking the chimney down there is no way to pull the turbulators out.
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Some people enjoy having to struggle through life I think! I have learned that you should always plan for how to fix something when it breaks because it will be eventually break. Does it have a metal roof that he can pop some panels off and do it that way? I have never looked how th shaft is connectd to the turbs but cant you slide the shaft out of the body and then see if the turbs lift up without binding up? They don't lift to high when you shake the handle.
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I had an issue with my G400 as well except the handle slid clear out. Then they used your standard allen head set screws and they came loose. Popped the rear cover off got the shaft lined back up and slid in then had to cut a allen wrench down to get it in the hole as the screw pointed up and wasn’t enough room between the top of the chamber and the coupler. I seen on the later ones they ditched the allen screw in favor of a square head set screw, I’m guessing the screw backed out far enough to get jammed against the housing, unless something moved and now maybe the smoke bypass isn’t shutting properly?
Do you recall if this still uses the linkage between the shaker handle rod and the turbulators or is it the new style with a slot in the turbolators and no linkage?
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Ok, Please re read what you just posted Marty, put yourself in the customer's position, you spent $11,000 dollars last fall on the boiler alone, you probably are not happy, agreed!
I think it it is the earlier model.
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Ok, Please re read what you just posted Marty, put yourself in the customer's position, you spent $11,000 dollars last fall on the boiler alone, you probably are not happy, agreed!
I think it it is the earlier model.
Right…
I was trying to help, I even admitted I had something similar. I tried to give advice, yet I’m accused of thinking the customer doesn’t have a beef?
Depending on which design the handle is either it’s high enough in the housing a set screw that came loose could jam up against the housing, if its the newer style I don’t believe that’s possible as the shaft sits lower in the housing. Since you think its the earlier design with the shaft higher up and the linkage connecting the turbolators to the handle assembly I’m betting it’s a set screw. I had to loosen mine slightly to get it back together, so they weren’t quite tightened enough at the factory or I was a tad to vigorous on racking the handle, either way I think I red loctited mine upon reassembly
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Ok Marty, I do apologize. I actually thought that you were dismissing it as a non issue and what you experienced sounds a lot like the one that I had,perhaps if they are watching then they will pay attention to a fix, I know the one that I experienced was not a lot of fun for me to fix?
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I went on this customer support call. And found the ash was not removed from behind the bottom ceramic eventually plugging the heat tubes, and jamming the spirals from going back down. Cleaned out the creosote from the tubes with flex rod. Freed them up.
showed the customer how his furnace works and how to clean behind the ceramics.
Replaced the air box and damper plate. Showed him what air passages go where and for what reason.
Cleaned the bottom ceramic, And clearance. Ran the furnace which ran flawlessly again. Good to go for another winter.
Did not know this furnace was posted on. Until today. 12/4/17.
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I’m confused. You said that the build up of ash hung the turbs up and didn’t allow them to return down jamming them up. Then you said you cleaned out the creosote. Creosote from where? And what was the creosote from?
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I’m confused. You said that the build up of ash hung the turbs up and didn’t allow them to return down jamming them up. Then you said you cleaned out the creosote. Creosote from where? And what was the creosote from?
:post:
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If the ash blocks the bottom of the heat exchange tubes the blocked tube collects ash and moisture. There's no heat to keep it clean. Then the turbulators stick.
That's my guess.
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Interesting.
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how often do you guys clean the bottom reaction chamber out? is the tool that is supplied all you meed to get in the far back? i have just been using the tool that was supplied and emptying out the lower every saturday.
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I remove ashes after each cord. I get about 3 gallons Of ash if I were to guess. The half moon tool that is for the reaction chamber horse shoe is all I was given. It doesn't get behind the refractory well. I have seen a tool that has a piece of steel bent in an L shape for getting behind the refractory. I don't know if I was suppose to get one of those or not. I just pull everything I can with the refractory tool. Mine doesn't seem to build up much ash directly behind the horseshoe. I vacuum this area out at the end of the season. I will get around to welding up a L tool one of these days.
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I got the"L" shaped tool with mine, works good for getting behind.
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I got the"L" shaped tool with mine, works good for getting behind.
Same here. I clean mine out about once a month when I'm running. Vacuum it out in the spring when I shut down for the summer.
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I'm not 100% sure where the creosote build up came from. Maybe when his damper stuck open the one time with the ash built up it may have happened then. This is also a g-400. With no bypass circ. and the furnace only has on circ installed on it, for some reason unknown. We talked about the internal flow requirements to prevent stratification. So he is having a local plummer install one in the other supply n return loop.
He has a new house I believe the furnace is to big for his requirements. Yes he has a pool but that is a different time when the pool needs heat.
As we all know There are many factors that need to come together to make any gasser run correctly if one or two things go wrong in the shoulder months it can affect the performance all winter long.
Yes it is inside a beautiful wood shed. With lots of room. And by now lots of dry wood.
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Why would he have smoke from the damper plate unless the hx tubes were plugged up? Sounds like on the surface that this is a simple mechanical problem where the shaft has loosened or bound up on something but smoke from the damper plate because of an obstruction?
The only way smoke would come out of the top of the damper
Plate is
#1 the plate is stuck open and the furnace is off or not calling for heat.
The cold air goes into the bottom passage of the air box threw the ceramic holes up into the fire box into the upper air passage and out the top air hole in the disk.
#2 is the disk stuck open furnace is off the bottom clean out door is open.
#3 is the disk stuck open. Positive draft down the chimney pushing out the smoke on the top passage only. Bottom air passage would not be smoking.
But I think his chimney is to tall for #3.
Any other ideas.
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Pic of damper smoke.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOIFFpHyVtyiNM9ReXjb3T0Eysb0CoPT6f4_H9fLbIaTQedKY-1V3RJdbi9IOQvXA?key=UHhoV21SWUhsYVFiY3Jjc2NvdUItTER4VFBQYlRR
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I remove ashes after each cord. I get about 3 gallons Of ash if I were to guess. The half moon tool that is for the reaction chamber horse shoe is all I was given. It doesn't get behind the refractory well. I have seen a tool that has a piece of steel bent in an L shape for getting behind the refractory. I don't know if I was suppose to get one of those or not. I just pull everything I can with the refractory tool. Mine doesn't seem to build up much ash directly behind the horseshoe. I vacuum this area out at the end of the season. I will get around to welding up a L tool one of these days.
The new ones have an upside down V behind the refractory so you don’t need the L shaped tool, I still recommend to pull the bottom refractory to make sure every thing is cleaned out at the end of the season. My personal favorite for this is a leaf blower, stand up wind and with one arm or the other straight out blast the bottom chamber out after scraping all the ash you can.
I believe you’ve had yours for several years now? It should have had a cleanout tool of some kind for behind the refractory.
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I send my wet dry vac hose up in back there to suck everything out. Seems to work well. Yes I think mine probably came with the tool but slim forgot to give it to me. It was his show boiler after all. Mines a 2015.
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I like the leaf blower idea too. Seen it done and it works great.
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I can't imagine the cloud that would be created by directing a leaf blower inside my boiler. It's bad enough just hand-cleaning it out. >:(
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I can't imagine the cloud that would be created by directing a leaf blower inside my boiler. It's bad enough just hand-cleaning it out. >:(
Like I said, I don’t do that until I’ve scraped all the ashes out I can. Then wait till the wind is at your back, if its at your back and right side, run the leaf blower with the left hand (the correct one) if winds at your back and left side run leaf blower with right hand. But yah it’s messy, but she’s clean when done. Only thing worse is I had some help once that thought they were going to use a leaf blower in a grain bin to clean it out.
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I'm not 100% sure where the creosote build up came from. Maybe when his damper stuck open the one time with the ash built up it may have happened then. This is also a g-400. With no bypass circ. and the furnace only has on circ installed on it, for some reason unknown. We talked about the internal flow requirements to prevent stratification. So he is having a local plummer install one in the other supply n return loop.
He has a new house I believe the furnace is to big for his requirements. Yes he has a pool but that is a different time when the pool needs heat.
As we all know There are many factors that need to come together to make any gasser run correctly if one or two things go wrong in the shoulder months it can affect the performance all winter long.
Yes it is inside a beautiful wood shed. With lots of room. And by now lots of dry wood.
You're right- the pool load often doesn't factor in if it gets shut down in the winter. If the unit is oversized and idling I could see it getting messy and the damper plate sticking open, then smoking out of it when it shuts off.