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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: burning bulk paper

« on: November 11, 2014, 02:28:16 AM »

Well as I stated earlier, I have been burning tightly packed boxes of solid waste cardboard for eight years now, actually this is the ninth winter, and this saves me at least the equivalent of six cords of wood. I have been fired up for six weeks now and looking in the ashpan tonight, it is only half full. Burning aspen poplar makes much more ash in my stove. To each his own I guess.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: burning bulk paper

« on: October 18, 2014, 10:47:06 AM »

IN the far north where I live Cardboard is a marginal recylable. About five years ago there was a mill in Ontario that was taking it and the cardboard taken in actually helped pay the freight for the plastics etc. back to the south. Since that mill closed most cardboard goes to landfill where it is conszidered burnable. I remove all plastic from the cardboard before it is boxed for my boiler.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: burning bulk paper

« on: October 17, 2014, 12:02:41 PM »

My son runs a grocery/convenience store that has lots of waste cardboard. I take the standard potatoe chip boxes 2 l x 1h x 1.5 wide and cut all the cardboard, paper and outdated potatoe chips into these crates and store at the boiler. I usually put two in, end to end as the base for my fire and my logs on top of that. About 30 boxes equal a cord of wood and although it isn'd adequate for night fores in the minus forty degree period, it still is fine for daytime firers. Because it is free of moisture it allows me to burn off some of my poor or unseasoned wood at the start and end of the season with good burning times. I haven't noticed much of an increase in ashes either. I have been doing this for eight years now and it has saved me a lot of firewood.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Pump in the basement

« on: December 30, 2013, 01:11:04 PM »

I like to have the pump inside the building, as long as it is lower than the OWB. In the far North it is always nicer to service inside than out by the boiler. I've also had to replace a couple Grundfos mounted on the boilers from condensation problems as the early models weren't ventilated with those little round holes in the pump case. If you don't have the elevation in your favor, it is a different ballgame and furnace mounting is the only way to go.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: mixing valve?

« on: November 21, 2013, 12:00:11 AM »

I prefer an aquistat in the top side relief hole of the tank set at 140 degrees F to run a pump up through the sidearm. I usually T off my return line to the boiler after going through the heat exchangers etc. and I T in the return from the sidearm a few inches down stream. Just doing another one right now actually. I have no experience with the new plate exchangers but think they may be superior to sidearms....Not as clumbsy to install anyways.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Have to clean out my water to water heat exchanger

« on: November 05, 2013, 09:08:22 PM »

I have never seen a broken impeller on a Taco except when the cartridge has seized and someone trys to break it loose by turning the impeller. I like to flush my exchangers backwards and am sometimes surprised at what comes out after a few years. The forward flow seems to leave eddys or pockets where junk can collect. Adding CLR would surely be a good idea too.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: designing my system... education and experiences are welcomed and appreciated

« on: November 05, 2013, 08:57:05 PM »

Don't know if all your future uses are going to be beyond the barn but if so you could take 2 sets of one inch that far and only use one for now. One inch isn't going to be enough for everything over that distance. If you run a garden hoose over to the back and use a filler tube from an automatic washing macine , you can hook up to the boiler drain in the lower left side of the picture and just close the valve when the boiler if full.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Side arm heater question

« on: October 30, 2013, 01:00:54 PM »

On my sidearms and maybe half a dozen I have installed I plumbed my boiler water through the centre from bottom and out the top straight through the one inch fittings. The 3/4 inch horizontal lower side fitting goes to the bottom tank drain which I replumb to be able to allow a drain if needed. The line should run on a slight up slope to the sidearm. The upper fitting I usually go to the relief hole on the upper side of the tank and move the relief up teed into the tank outlet or a secondary top outlet found on most tanks.. If there are small children in the house I use the side hole to house an aquistat set to 140 degrees F and wire it to run a pump off my primary loop. I just tee in where I want the pump to be and tee in again about 10 inches down stream. In that case I take the top fitting on the sidearm to a tee at the top outlet of the tank. The blueprint for one of the installations called for a check valve just above where I plumbed back in at the top, but I didn't have one so I went without it. Didn't seem to affect the performance at all and the homeowner advised that he was able to turn off the noisy circ pump on his system for the OBW season and still have hot water at his shower and sinks forty feet away. Maybe T have been doing it wrong all thrse years but it has always worked for me....

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: solder

« on: May 14, 2013, 01:49:36 PM »

The non leaded solder is a disaster unless yu use the proper flux and even then it is to be avoided for hydrnics. I always use the 50/50 solder and matching flux and as always ...clean ,clean, clean.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Cardbard as fuel

« on: April 04, 2013, 10:17:55 PM »

      I live in northern Canada near 55 degrees north so my heating OWB season runs 8 months and the outside temps are very cold. I know that manufacturers state that you shouldn't burn cardboard but about 8 years ago my son bought a local grocery store that has large amounts of scrap cardboard. On my daily cleanup round I simply slash and pile into a uniform sized heavy carton carton approox 2 feet longx 1 ft high x 1 1/2 ft wide. A few swipes with packing tape keeps it together. This gives me about 2 1/2 cubic feet of tightly packed cardboard per box. I have about 400 boxes per year available and they stack quite nicely under a tarp at the OWB.
      Cardboard burns very cleanly. It wouldn't heat my hoome in mid winter but it sure extends my woodpile by supplying most of the heat early and late in the burning season. It also allows me to burn unseasoned wood with good results. Two boxes fit end to end in my firebox and I can pile another foot deep of logs  on top to get 12 hrs.  In mid season I will put in 2 boxes to extend my day fire into late evening when I add all wood for the overnight.
       I estimate that I get half of my heat from the cardbard and I see no detrimental effects to the boiler over 8 seasons . I have no problems with cresote at all. My damper is clean and never has to be scraped as before, The ashes just seem to dissapear up the chimney. I have a well insulated chimney 6 feet with 2 foot pipe. Never had to clean the chimney all season. Cleaned the extension pipe just once.
       I don't suppose there are many of you with access to large amounts of cardboard like me, but I thought I would throw this in for general information.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Things you wish you'd done differently??

« on: February 24, 2013, 02:34:26 PM »

The other thing I missed when installing was to have some way to monitor the boiler temp from the house without walking to the attached garage. There must be some nice remote wireless thermometers now but I settled for an old mechanical heat guage from an old John Deere tractor and ran it from my laundry closet and taped the sensor to the line at my Heat Exch. Reads abut 5 degrees low but good enoough to let me (or the wife) know that there is time for one more cofee before the slippers come off and the bush packs get pulled on.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: stove temps and longevity

« on: February 24, 2013, 02:25:42 PM »

I like the 180 setting also and have seen the moisture at cold startup ,like Scott says. Almost all of the supply/return lines in my area are run in what is locally called "mine wastewater pipe". It takes water from mines to a drain or lagoon in sub zero conditions. Basically the core is three  inch PVC with about three and a half inches of styroofoam around it and a tough rubber outside coat. A bit too stiff to bend sharply so we have to take other measures at the OWB end. Since our one inch Kitec or Pex is adjacent or touching I suppose it helps with the return water temps. Fairly recent member to this form and wasn't aware that this was such a big concern. Lots to learn!!!

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Empyre 250 Install "Complete". Picture Heavy!!

« on: February 24, 2013, 10:45:04 AM »

Yes good job and nice pix. At the heat exch rad I install 90 degree unions . I had four pairs but have used them all and think the price would be outrageos now. I have valves right at the unions ,so I can take the rad out for cleaning every few years. I always put tees in before and after the valves and install a cross feed that has a full flow ball valve. When I am away in the heating season I bypass the rad by opening up the bypass and closing the rad. It takes a lot of gas or electricity when your rad is working in reverse I think. If you do this however, you have to crack the downstream valve a bit so that your regular furnace heat doesn't expand the boiler fluid enough to put pressure on the rad. Loking at your plumbing, this would be an easy addition if it makes any sense to you. Good luck.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Things you wish you'd done differently??

« on: February 20, 2013, 11:07:15 PM »

The one other thing I would do is to make sure I delivered a boiler water sample to the dealer at the start of each season so there is no question in the event of Warranty. This wasn't even mentined years ago although the dealer usually gave you a pint or so of crystalls to add at start up and would send you another pint in later years if you called and paid $15. Just checking my notes for Scott on my first Empyre CPW250 Serial#2500895, built 10/95 and installed by me and dealer 11/97. I added the corrosion inhibitoor 2 bottles at startup to a 50/50% enviro antefreese mix. Added one again at year 3 and another at startup of five. My pump ran year round and aquistat was 170 open/180 closed. 110 volt slenooid damper on the door, no creoste sticking and 15Amp circuit breaker never tripped. No moisture in firebox noted until leaks began around door early in year five. No luck with calls to the manufacturer but one employee said "must of been the shipment of "crap steel we got." Dealer gave me $200 out of his pocket to get a welder. I had stripped it to the leak at door, left front outside. He ground out the area and explained that it was a "cold start" during fabrication and welded it up well. Showed me another cold start at the right corner opposite and fixed that too and left to go 300 miles away to another job. Next morning I refill only to find the weld inside the top corner of the inside of the door split wide open for five inches. Likely caused by the heat generated by the repair weld. I climbed inside ,laying on my back doing the best vertical I ever done, laying a bead of 7018 and two fillets to sew it up.  Later in that season another pinhole in weld nearby and start of sixth season another pinhole inside just above door in the middle of nowhere but there seemed t be metal there to weld a repair so I did. Shortly after a pinhole on boiler roof,inside door right of centre. Steel brushing showed too much corrsion to weld without a patch so I  gave up.
       Since there are  lot of OWBs in my area of Northern Manitoba I acquired a 1991 Homesteader for free as long as I installed a 20KW boiler to replace it. I installed it originally and knew it had been totally abused  and run on straight water with only the original inhibotor. Well it finally sprung a leak in 2012 and I patched it up to make it until spring. I then bought probably the last Homesteader and if it makes 21 years I will be happy. By the way ,I sold that Empyre to a fellow who tore it down for a pattern, used the frame/boody and welded his own thick stainless boiler. It is still going today but he is cursing me for not telling him that that design is prone to giving you a mouthful of smoke at fueling time.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Things you wish you'd done differently??

« on: February 17, 2013, 09:01:04 PM »

Lots of good tips here. Hope you have better luck with Empyre than I did. Corrosion around the door at year 5. Scott has likely told you to drive a ground rod and attach copper wire. I also would put a flexible wire between the door and the boiler. Mine didn't always ground at the latch and hinges because of ash I guess. Electrician neighbour showed me slight readings there, and I don't know how this would be possible but  all my corrosion was around the door. No errant electricity is wanted near a boiler. I agree with the suggestion to raise it on the slab too. Another thing I always do when plumbing in the heat exch at the plenum is to Tee in a cross feed just before(and after) the valves. In the cross feed I install a full flow ball valve. When I have to leave during the heating season, I can leave my pump on so the lines don't freeze, without having to lose heat from my electric furnace. When yu do this ,however, you must crack the outlet valve on the exchanger just a bit to allow for expansion of the antefreeze in the coil. Good luck, sounds like you have all the right stuff.