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1
General Discussion / Re: Who's Woodburner is leaking?
« on: November 24, 2014, 09:18:32 PM »
slimjim; Thank you for the comment but I won't let your presupposition slip by. Boiler owners mistakes? You being a rep, to me that equates to,"how do I use the warranty to get out of fixing this one"? No offense, I like your stoves. Proper installation is a must.
How about simple directions printed on a single page and a 20 year unlimited warranty on the back. I'm bothered by how complicated and expensive it's become to heat water. Additionally by all the additives, tools and testing. Self serving? Unfortunately there is little I can share with the consumer concerning longevity. I am happy to share advice with any consumer. What I have for sale concerns manufacturers. I may reconsider if there are any non profit manufacturers out there?
How about simple directions printed on a single page and a 20 year unlimited warranty on the back. I'm bothered by how complicated and expensive it's become to heat water. Additionally by all the additives, tools and testing. Self serving? Unfortunately there is little I can share with the consumer concerning longevity. I am happy to share advice with any consumer. What I have for sale concerns manufacturers. I may reconsider if there are any non profit manufacturers out there?
2
General Discussion / Who's Woodburner is leaking?
« on: November 24, 2014, 06:48:31 AM »
Hi all,
Back to gather data this year on your leaky woodburners, wood boilers, green energy recovery systems or whatever else the manufacturers came up with for marketing a big tea kettle. Like last year include some basic information, make, model, age, problem, pic's and how your treated by your dealer and sales folks. I'm mainly interested in gassers but especially in failures within 5 years of new.
Thanks for all the responses, I continue to evaluate designs and material selection in an effort to encourage manufacturers to build better stoves instead of self serving warranty's. I know I struck a nerve when backbround checks are being done on me by forum members and manufacturers.
I still have a 20 year design for sale, only $2 million dollars. It may wreak of arrogance on my part but planned obsolescence continually lowers the bar for consumers.
Back to gather data this year on your leaky woodburners, wood boilers, green energy recovery systems or whatever else the manufacturers came up with for marketing a big tea kettle. Like last year include some basic information, make, model, age, problem, pic's and how your treated by your dealer and sales folks. I'm mainly interested in gassers but especially in failures within 5 years of new.
Thanks for all the responses, I continue to evaluate designs and material selection in an effort to encourage manufacturers to build better stoves instead of self serving warranty's. I know I struck a nerve when backbround checks are being done on me by forum members and manufacturers.
I still have a 20 year design for sale, only $2 million dollars. It may wreak of arrogance on my part but planned obsolescence continually lowers the bar for consumers.
3
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Coatings
« on: March 10, 2013, 01:51:28 PM »Hello all, I need input and opinions. After reading some of the posts about OWB's leaks, it appears that the weak link in the OWB's is the weld seams. Instead of waiting for failure to happen due to corrosion from creosote, etc... in the seams, why not take a more preemptive approach and cover them over with a compound of some type? My co-worker thought that jet coating on just the seams would protect them from the corrosion but allow for maximum heat transfer, thus, the OWB lasting a bit longer. What are your thoughts on this? Is the problem of seam failure just not as bad as I seem to think they it is? Am I being paranoid over nothing? Thanks, RogerHey Rodger
My opinion is it is likely some additives will help make your box cleaner but unlikely to cost/effect longevity. Its not poor welding or cold acid forming areas that cause the deterioration. The wrong coating will accelerate decay. There are four possible solutions; a carbide box, but it's not cost effective. Aluminum coatings may help but would diminish heat tranfer, disposable fire boxes,, ugg, or option 4. Sorry you"ll have to wait on that one, see my other post "Leaks".
My opinion is most of these leave the factory with an expiration date hidden somewhere in the fire box. Wire, brush, scrape, what ever makes you sleep well, but its time and money I won't spend.
Randy
4
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: March 10, 2013, 09:36:42 AM »
Hi All
Thank you again for all the interest and PM.
Here some pics from earlier research I've decided to share. 1200 hrs of "exposure", 20" schedule 40 steel pipe.
Re Gassers only!
I promised to post results from testing done on CB firebox sample plates but from a legal stand point I'm safer providing an opinion.
The good news; Interesting trace elements were revealed indicating some thought went into material selection. The sad news; results also reinforced my theory behing the infrequent yet major stumbling block of premature firebox failure. I would like material samples from any stove anyone has repaired, samples should be at least the size of a playing card. PM me for more info. A broader data field is needed to reinforce my theory.
I hate a pain in the ass that just points out problems so I have the solution for building a firebox that lasts 20 years. It's for sale today for 2 million dollars. Don't be second in line.
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
Thank you again for all the interest and PM.
Here some pics from earlier research I've decided to share. 1200 hrs of "exposure", 20" schedule 40 steel pipe.
Re Gassers only!
I promised to post results from testing done on CB firebox sample plates but from a legal stand point I'm safer providing an opinion.
The good news; Interesting trace elements were revealed indicating some thought went into material selection. The sad news; results also reinforced my theory behing the infrequent yet major stumbling block of premature firebox failure. I would like material samples from any stove anyone has repaired, samples should be at least the size of a playing card. PM me for more info. A broader data field is needed to reinforce my theory.
I hate a pain in the ass that just points out problems so I have the solution for building a firebox that lasts 20 years. It's for sale today for 2 million dollars. Don't be second in line.
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
5
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: March 10, 2013, 08:56:44 AM »Just let me know when you figure it out :-)Hey johny, I figured it out!
6
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: stove temps and longevity
« on: February 25, 2013, 05:18:17 PM »This is my second year with a OWF. With everyones help and information on this site, my settings are 170 and 180. I don't understand why people read post on this site telling them what the setting should be (170-180) but yet they want to do it different!
170 - 180
Hey THAT'S MY MOM"s PIC,
7
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: stove temps and longevity
« on: February 24, 2013, 04:29:19 AM »
Hey, my observations. I replaced a 1984 Aqua something a year ago. Looked like 1/4 carbon plate. These folk only burnt the worst wood, hemlock slabs green and half rotted stuff. They ran it at 110 or 120 unless it got real cold out. Turns out that thermometer was at a lower elevation in the tank vs the blower control, temp gun says they were int he 140 150 range. Another point is some of the thermal wells for the thermometer extend through the insulation and get a readin from the outer tank. I make sure my control and themometer are at the same elevation since I've determined a 20 to 40 degree difference between top and bottom tank temps, thus transcending.
Just my 2 cents.
Randy
Just my 2 cents.
Randy
8
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: February 22, 2013, 07:38:58 PM »
Now, hmm how does that explain the hole in the top center of the fire box I repaired yesterday. This would be the hottest spot in the box.
Now be honest, has the control valve made an improvement toward longevity? I agree it couldn't hurt on a boiler with erratic demands. But that's another cost that I feel likely isn't neccesary for most. But it does add one more ut o in the warranty.
Hate to sound arrogant but its a solution for a problem that barely exists.
Sounds like some folks know warranty language like I know hydrogen embrittlement. I'm only sharing 40% of the answer with the hydrogen.
Had a mystery similar to this a few years back. Ill look for the 20" schedule 40 burner tube pic. 5 feet of it I could pulverize with a 2lb hammer. Literally fell apart.
Did I mention working for Ingersoll Rand pump services group providing support at nuc power plants. That's sort of where I came up with the leasing not to buy plan. Ingersoll wouldn't sell the ccw pumps only lease with service included 10 year lease$$$$. So good you can't buy it, what a concept.
Googler's alert;
Oh that's Ingersoll Rand in Charlotte, NC ask for Richard when you call.
Randy
[attachment deleted by admin]
Now be honest, has the control valve made an improvement toward longevity? I agree it couldn't hurt on a boiler with erratic demands. But that's another cost that I feel likely isn't neccesary for most. But it does add one more ut o in the warranty.
Hate to sound arrogant but its a solution for a problem that barely exists.
Sounds like some folks know warranty language like I know hydrogen embrittlement. I'm only sharing 40% of the answer with the hydrogen.
Had a mystery similar to this a few years back. Ill look for the 20" schedule 40 burner tube pic. 5 feet of it I could pulverize with a 2lb hammer. Literally fell apart.
Did I mention working for Ingersoll Rand pump services group providing support at nuc power plants. That's sort of where I came up with the leasing not to buy plan. Ingersoll wouldn't sell the ccw pumps only lease with service included 10 year lease$$$$. So good you can't buy it, what a concept.
Googler's alert;
Oh that's Ingersoll Rand in Charlotte, NC ask for Richard when you call.
Randy
[attachment deleted by admin]
9
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: February 22, 2013, 05:49:37 PM »
I realize some stoves have some trick internal plumbing. I have used a temp gun on a few stoves to check water jacket temp, 40 degrees bottom to top difference was typical. Also I think it was an 80s Aqua II I disected put an internal domestic hot water coil internally and placed it mid point in the tank I guess since it didn't have to be as hot. Just my 2cents.
Randy
Randy
10
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: February 22, 2013, 05:30:49 PM »
Ahh that's where they enter the stove, internally the hottest water is at the high water level, the ones I've disected pull hot water from 4-6 inches below the high water level???
Thanks Randy
Thanks Randy
11
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: February 22, 2013, 05:15:23 PM »
WOW I see what popcorn was about now!
First I like fixing things, most appreciate what I do for them and I make a new friend, but then I don't like eating dirt. So 2++ and 1-
What do you call the pump circut taking the hot water to the house? I call it a supply line?I suppose what I call the fill line could b.....?
I know my local dealer and friend feels like he's been hung out to dry by CB. He knows the conditions of these gassers and told me to be on call, honest engine.
After getting into repairing these gasification boilers, I reviewed an old paper done for the dept of defense regarding the quantum physics of atomic hydrogen, hydrogen isotopes, heat and pressure on steel and alloys. Then I realized that all the stuff sold to,"guarantee the longest life from your stove" likely does very little for the first thing to fail, the fire box, usually 80% of the time. Still maintain ph and inhibitor.
Every action performed on steel and most stainless; bend, roll, cut, or weld it, hydrogen is added. Remember the Hindenburg, its bad. Now expose that steel to heat cycles and time Take a look at yesterdays pics I posted of 409 Stainless/9 years old. The blue heat line from factory welding is still visible with the leaks dead in the center of the heat line /weld. Note weld is on the opposite side.
Chickfillet question of the day: what metal is enhanced inside a wood boiler fire box? -0- I win.
Your move?
Randy
First I like fixing things, most appreciate what I do for them and I make a new friend, but then I don't like eating dirt. So 2++ and 1-
What do you call the pump circut taking the hot water to the house? I call it a supply line?I suppose what I call the fill line could b.....?
I know my local dealer and friend feels like he's been hung out to dry by CB. He knows the conditions of these gassers and told me to be on call, honest engine.
After getting into repairing these gasification boilers, I reviewed an old paper done for the dept of defense regarding the quantum physics of atomic hydrogen, hydrogen isotopes, heat and pressure on steel and alloys. Then I realized that all the stuff sold to,"guarantee the longest life from your stove" likely does very little for the first thing to fail, the fire box, usually 80% of the time. Still maintain ph and inhibitor.
Every action performed on steel and most stainless; bend, roll, cut, or weld it, hydrogen is added. Remember the Hindenburg, its bad. Now expose that steel to heat cycles and time Take a look at yesterdays pics I posted of 409 Stainless/9 years old. The blue heat line from factory welding is still visible with the leaks dead in the center of the heat line /weld. Note weld is on the opposite side.
Chickfillet question of the day: what metal is enhanced inside a wood boiler fire box? -0- I win.
Your move?
Randy
12
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: February 22, 2013, 11:44:33 AM »
Woodman; woodman how convenient that you noticed the pen. Yea you get a free one when you buy em 100 at a time:)). From what I've seen most stoves have a visual level gauge and won't circulate if the level gets below the pickup tube. I'm just saying watch you water level closely.
As far as jokes go not here.
I'm here to help anyone who has concerns, issues and to let the dealers and manufacturers know someone is educating their customers.
Of course the dealers are educated by the company and really honestly believe what theyre told.
So its no joke, the people that buy these typically don't park the mercedes next to the woodshed. Be it for a dollar or a dime we all work hard for our money. The big guys don't care, obvious in the way they compete to write the crumiest warranty. How about you dealers get some extra units ready on trailers for emergencies and warranty work. Poor old fella yesterday is froze up solid till things thaw out and had buy 1200 in fuel to get by.
No joke! The only way I would buy one of these is if my dealer promised to provide a back up system within 24 hrs if it goes to crap.
How about that 10k stove, lease it to me (not lease to buy) for say $10,000/120 months 10 years = $83.00/month Charge me an even hundred and and the dealer does whatever maint is required and earn another 20%. That puts performance and maint. back on the people bragging about thier stove and takes all the lazy fire tenders out of the picture.
I would encourage anyone to actually negotiate some "what if's" into the purchase. Oops gotta run another one bit the dust.
Randy
As far as jokes go not here.
I'm here to help anyone who has concerns, issues and to let the dealers and manufacturers know someone is educating their customers.
Of course the dealers are educated by the company and really honestly believe what theyre told.
So its no joke, the people that buy these typically don't park the mercedes next to the woodshed. Be it for a dollar or a dime we all work hard for our money. The big guys don't care, obvious in the way they compete to write the crumiest warranty. How about you dealers get some extra units ready on trailers for emergencies and warranty work. Poor old fella yesterday is froze up solid till things thaw out and had buy 1200 in fuel to get by.
No joke! The only way I would buy one of these is if my dealer promised to provide a back up system within 24 hrs if it goes to crap.
How about that 10k stove, lease it to me (not lease to buy) for say $10,000/120 months 10 years = $83.00/month Charge me an even hundred and and the dealer does whatever maint is required and earn another 20%. That puts performance and maint. back on the people bragging about thier stove and takes all the lazy fire tenders out of the picture.
I would encourage anyone to actually negotiate some "what if's" into the purchase. Oops gotta run another one bit the dust.
Randy
13
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: February 22, 2013, 05:00:43 AM »
Hey thanks again to everyone for contributing. Let's get caught up; Taylor 750 1992 s, purchased used 06, $ 2000/7= 286/year and getting better, manadatory 2hrs maint. Time/ year. I know its a pig using 9 or 10 cord a year.
Water levels; My point is make sure the fire box is submerged 100% of the time. Some liquid temp sensors require liquid on them to be accurate.
Boilerman; no offense but your playing checkers,,,I'm playing chess. You skipped right over the answer. Unfortunately there is nothing any dealer can sell to fix this. Remember this pertains to gassers.
Here's some 9 year old stainless, patched up at the factory, see pen in pic, I repaired a 4 places on it. It'l need more work within two years. 5500 investested + 600 for repairs 6100 /10 = $610/ year HMM. Customers fight with justifying an investment, just like my customer yesterday, salesman told him 20 years then went out of business. It would be fine if the longevity curve was growing but it's not. Gotta go spend my weekend repairing a drill rig derrick ahh fun work!
[attachment deleted by admin]
Water levels; My point is make sure the fire box is submerged 100% of the time. Some liquid temp sensors require liquid on them to be accurate.
Boilerman; no offense but your playing checkers,,,I'm playing chess. You skipped right over the answer. Unfortunately there is nothing any dealer can sell to fix this. Remember this pertains to gassers.
Here's some 9 year old stainless, patched up at the factory, see pen in pic, I repaired a 4 places on it. It'l need more work within two years. 5500 investested + 600 for repairs 6100 /10 = $610/ year HMM. Customers fight with justifying an investment, just like my customer yesterday, salesman told him 20 years then went out of business. It would be fine if the longevity curve was growing but it's not. Gotta go spend my weekend repairing a drill rig derrick ahh fun work!
[attachment deleted by admin]
14
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: February 21, 2013, 06:01:49 AM »
Thanks pitcrew, I'm headed back to that leaking CB today, Ill get some pics.
BTW can anyone explain the severe deterioration near the loading door and front corners on these 2300/2400 stoves. I can, anyone else have a guess? It might be worth a million dollars if you do. I'm sure there are others that may know but who would want to deflate stock in the entire market for these gassers.
One hint; never ever run one of these low on water, 10-20 hrs of high heat and hydrogen atmospheres will ruin the fire box depending on the material///including stainless. Some sort of auto shut down should be included on gassers to protect the box. When removing bad plate from some of these I've seen 1/4 water levels indicated by a line stained in the outer tank. These had good door seal but no frame left to seal against, so maaaybe the extra air is making extra heat? Good luck and any winners will get a gift certificate to Chicfillet.
BTW can anyone explain the severe deterioration near the loading door and front corners on these 2300/2400 stoves. I can, anyone else have a guess? It might be worth a million dollars if you do. I'm sure there are others that may know but who would want to deflate stock in the entire market for these gassers.
One hint; never ever run one of these low on water, 10-20 hrs of high heat and hydrogen atmospheres will ruin the fire box depending on the material///including stainless. Some sort of auto shut down should be included on gassers to protect the box. When removing bad plate from some of these I've seen 1/4 water levels indicated by a line stained in the outer tank. These had good door seal but no frame left to seal against, so maaaybe the extra air is making extra heat? Good luck and any winners will get a gift certificate to Chicfillet.
15
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: CENTRAL E Leaks (Not Like the onion)
« on: February 20, 2013, 06:32:31 AM »This is gettin ready to go to a whole other level.... It ain't gonna be purdy...You got that right! Should be quite a show before all is said and done! Eatin' my popcorn and sippin' a beverage waitin' for the fireworks to begin!
Purdy? Seriously, you must be from Kentucky. Everyone knows it's spelled Purdee
Oh I'm just waiting, I know one guy who's not going to like it at all. Then the wise man quote, that was like putting the butter on my popcorn
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