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1
Plumbing / Re: Replacement pump size?
« on: January 23, 2016, 08:24:26 PM »
RSI thanks for pointing me to page 11. In case others are interested now or in the future, here's what it says about the 007 too:
Pump Selection
The Taco 009 is a medium flow, high head pressure pump that requires an adequate amount of pressure on the outlet side to prevent the motor from overloading.
The Taco 007 is a medium to high flow, low head pressure pump. In a very low-resistance system (e.g., short length of supply and return lines, only a flat plate heat exchanger, etc.), the 007 pump may need to be mounted lower near the base of the furnace to prevent cavitation at high water temperatures.
My supply/return run sweeps out of the boiler (man that was a pain), goes 24 ft, three elbows before the thermostatic valve, a wye strainer, 40-plate Hx, then back on the same route. About 30 ft each way. I was thinking this could be considered a short length of supply and return and only a flat plate Hx. This is why I thought the 007 sounded like a better fit per the manual. I didn't read the manual before I bought the 1450, should have, but trusted the dealer to set me up properly.
Still trying to figure out why the 009 was chosen. Must be for the lower flow. The load on the DHW side of the hx is fairly low I suppose, house is very well insulated and combined with the 800sf radiant slab I don't require too many BTU's compared to other houses.
Anyway I'm leaning toward the Grundfos. One I get it running I'll report back on how it works with my system.
Pump Selection
The Taco 009 is a medium flow, high head pressure pump that requires an adequate amount of pressure on the outlet side to prevent the motor from overloading.
The Taco 007 is a medium to high flow, low head pressure pump. In a very low-resistance system (e.g., short length of supply and return lines, only a flat plate heat exchanger, etc.), the 007 pump may need to be mounted lower near the base of the furnace to prevent cavitation at high water temperatures.
My supply/return run sweeps out of the boiler (man that was a pain), goes 24 ft, three elbows before the thermostatic valve, a wye strainer, 40-plate Hx, then back on the same route. About 30 ft each way. I was thinking this could be considered a short length of supply and return and only a flat plate Hx. This is why I thought the 007 sounded like a better fit per the manual. I didn't read the manual before I bought the 1450, should have, but trusted the dealer to set me up properly.
Still trying to figure out why the 009 was chosen. Must be for the lower flow. The load on the DHW side of the hx is fairly low I suppose, house is very well insulated and combined with the 800sf radiant slab I don't require too many BTU's compared to other houses.
Anyway I'm leaning toward the Grundfos. One I get it running I'll report back on how it works with my system.
2
Plumbing / Re: Replacement pump size?
« on: January 13, 2016, 06:19:48 PM »
Thank you all for your help. I didn't see anything about the 009 specifically in the 1450's manual. I agree that there is probably a better pump for my application though and will take your suggestions about pulling the 009 and using it as a backup.
Sounds like the 15-58 is a popular choice. Price is not bad ($90), just a little more than the Taco 0015 ($83), and the NRF 22 ($79). Not to start a brand war but can anyone give me some pros and cons for these three brands besides slight price difference? One brand fail on you while another runs strong?
Thanks again
Sounds like the 15-58 is a popular choice. Price is not bad ($90), just a little more than the Taco 0015 ($83), and the NRF 22 ($79). Not to start a brand war but can anyone give me some pros and cons for these three brands besides slight price difference? One brand fail on you while another runs strong?
Thanks again
3
Plumbing / Re: Replacement pump size?
« on: January 07, 2016, 08:16:19 AM »
1" thermopex...not sure if that is considered larger or not?
4
Plumbing / Replacement pump size?
« on: January 07, 2016, 07:55:59 AM »
Hey guys, wonder if anyone might have some advice for me on this.
I am looking to get a replacement pump and/or cartridge on hand so I can be ready when the Taco 009 goes out. I am in my second season, burning 7ish months a year. I run the pump one hour a day when the E-Classic 1450 is shut down. Hope the pump will last a long time but want to be ready.
Size. My run is 30' from pump to a 40 plate hx, that's all. Essentially no elevation change. I am thinking my dealer upsold me on a bigger pump than I need just to milk more $ out of me. What do you guys think? I am not an expert on head calculations.
Thinking I might get an 007 for the backup, and perhaps a spare cartridge for the 009 to have on hand. I'm not afraid to spend this money as "insurance," but obviously don't want to spend more than I have to.
Any advice will be much appreciated!
I am looking to get a replacement pump and/or cartridge on hand so I can be ready when the Taco 009 goes out. I am in my second season, burning 7ish months a year. I run the pump one hour a day when the E-Classic 1450 is shut down. Hope the pump will last a long time but want to be ready.
Size. My run is 30' from pump to a 40 plate hx, that's all. Essentially no elevation change. I am thinking my dealer upsold me on a bigger pump than I need just to milk more $ out of me. What do you guys think? I am not an expert on head calculations.
Thinking I might get an 007 for the backup, and perhaps a spare cartridge for the 009 to have on hand. I'm not afraid to spend this money as "insurance," but obviously don't want to spend more than I have to.
Any advice will be much appreciated!
5
Central Boiler / Re: E-Classic owners, let's talk temps
« on: October 20, 2014, 05:34:04 PM »
That does help LittleJohn, very much. We are also seeing low 40 and high of mid 60s.
I had considered using the 1450 that way, just heating the water once a day or so, but for some reason I thought it was bad to start and stop the boiler a lot. Do you actually turn off the firestar controller?
I hear you about mixing down the water temps before running through the slab. I'm getting great transfer from the 40 plate. Certainly don't need 185 degree water all day. What you're doing would probably work well for me too. I know the manual says to keep the setpoint at 185 but still not completely sure about why....?
I'm also just a bit excited and trying to see what this thing will do. If the weather stays this warm I'll start burning much less.
This is the first time in our lives that my wife has had a really warm house, she's thrilled. You're right, that's the most important part!
I had considered using the 1450 that way, just heating the water once a day or so, but for some reason I thought it was bad to start and stop the boiler a lot. Do you actually turn off the firestar controller?
I hear you about mixing down the water temps before running through the slab. I'm getting great transfer from the 40 plate. Certainly don't need 185 degree water all day. What you're doing would probably work well for me too. I know the manual says to keep the setpoint at 185 but still not completely sure about why....?
I'm also just a bit excited and trying to see what this thing will do. If the weather stays this warm I'll start burning much less.
This is the first time in our lives that my wife has had a really warm house, she's thrilled. You're right, that's the most important part!
6
Central Boiler / Re: E-Classic owners, let's talk temps
« on: October 20, 2014, 06:47:59 AM »
Great success! I love this thing. My wife is laughing at me because she says I am like a child with a toy, checking the temps constantly and getting giddy when it works properly.
Thank you PapaTango, it is so helpful to hear what your boiler is doing. Great to know your reaction chamber temps get down around water temps too, I was thinking that was a problem but I guess its is not. Again, your experience is invaluable re-assurance that things are working properly. I'm sure once the weather gets colder and demand goes up these "idle problems" (lol) will subside.
I discovered that I had inadvertently upped the temperature delta from 10 to 12 degrees, so I moved it back to 10. Now the boiler kicks on at 175 and not 173. 185 setpoint, so that and the delta are factory settings.
I upped the pulse of air from 50 secs to 75 secs, and left the pulse frequency at 15 minutes.
To build better coals, I ran the heat demand hard during the day yesterday and then stopped it about 4:30pm. At 6:30 I opened the firebox, spread the coals evenly, and loaded more wood. Temps stayed hotter and I could tell the coals were better than before. Still, by 9:30pm the reaction chamber temps were getting down to 198, then up to 210 after a pulse. That seems ideal if it would keep doing that all night. But it slowly dropped lower and lower.
This morning I was sure the fire was out again, RC temp was in the mid-170s along with the water and the RC even dropped a couple of degrees when it first kicked on the blower. But there must have been coals because it fired all the way and heated the water back up without intervention.
So the slight increase in coal amount and quality, combined with a 75 sec pulse every 15 minutes did the trick (at least this time). The boiler stayed idle for over 12 hours and then fired right back to full temp, water from 172.5 to 185 in about 11 minutes. With no demand, the water temp keeps climbing too. Currently at 191.4.
I'm gonna turn on the demand again and let the temp come back down, then power off firestar and to the first cleaning of the reaction chamber, scrape the firebox, air holes, and door, check the chimney, and clean the heat exchangers. Wonder if I'm forgetting anything. Seems to soon to check the solenoid elbow, only been burning for 4 days. Any maintenance suggestions now that it's a few days broken in?
Firestar XP was a bit of a pain to install because my dealer did not steer me just right on a couple of things (he had only installed it once awhile ago and could not remember what wire gauge to use, how to provide power, really anything about it). He told me to use Cat5 in the ditch, that's all I would need (not entirely true). I made the Cat5 work by pairing the individual wires into groups. Really you just need some normal stranded black/white wire, 14-18 gauge will probably do. The knockout on the air box that CB provides is too small for the grommet, boring it out without making a mess was a PITA. ("I paid how much $ to be doing THIS?") But all in all it wasn't too bad. Luckily inside the house I was near the service panel and was able to cut into my OWB electrical circuit and splice a power supply for Firestar XP. Now that it is up and running though I am very glad I have it. Love being able to see exactly what had happened overnight, during burns, during idle/pulse, etc. More information to geek out on.
I'm sure you can tell how I like more info from how long-winded I am, sorry about that BTW! Thanks for sticking with me.
Thank you PapaTango, it is so helpful to hear what your boiler is doing. Great to know your reaction chamber temps get down around water temps too, I was thinking that was a problem but I guess its is not. Again, your experience is invaluable re-assurance that things are working properly. I'm sure once the weather gets colder and demand goes up these "idle problems" (lol) will subside.
I discovered that I had inadvertently upped the temperature delta from 10 to 12 degrees, so I moved it back to 10. Now the boiler kicks on at 175 and not 173. 185 setpoint, so that and the delta are factory settings.
I upped the pulse of air from 50 secs to 75 secs, and left the pulse frequency at 15 minutes.
To build better coals, I ran the heat demand hard during the day yesterday and then stopped it about 4:30pm. At 6:30 I opened the firebox, spread the coals evenly, and loaded more wood. Temps stayed hotter and I could tell the coals were better than before. Still, by 9:30pm the reaction chamber temps were getting down to 198, then up to 210 after a pulse. That seems ideal if it would keep doing that all night. But it slowly dropped lower and lower.
This morning I was sure the fire was out again, RC temp was in the mid-170s along with the water and the RC even dropped a couple of degrees when it first kicked on the blower. But there must have been coals because it fired all the way and heated the water back up without intervention.
So the slight increase in coal amount and quality, combined with a 75 sec pulse every 15 minutes did the trick (at least this time). The boiler stayed idle for over 12 hours and then fired right back to full temp, water from 172.5 to 185 in about 11 minutes. With no demand, the water temp keeps climbing too. Currently at 191.4.
I'm gonna turn on the demand again and let the temp come back down, then power off firestar and to the first cleaning of the reaction chamber, scrape the firebox, air holes, and door, check the chimney, and clean the heat exchangers. Wonder if I'm forgetting anything. Seems to soon to check the solenoid elbow, only been burning for 4 days. Any maintenance suggestions now that it's a few days broken in?
Firestar XP was a bit of a pain to install because my dealer did not steer me just right on a couple of things (he had only installed it once awhile ago and could not remember what wire gauge to use, how to provide power, really anything about it). He told me to use Cat5 in the ditch, that's all I would need (not entirely true). I made the Cat5 work by pairing the individual wires into groups. Really you just need some normal stranded black/white wire, 14-18 gauge will probably do. The knockout on the air box that CB provides is too small for the grommet, boring it out without making a mess was a PITA. ("I paid how much $ to be doing THIS?") But all in all it wasn't too bad. Luckily inside the house I was near the service panel and was able to cut into my OWB electrical circuit and splice a power supply for Firestar XP. Now that it is up and running though I am very glad I have it. Love being able to see exactly what had happened overnight, during burns, during idle/pulse, etc. More information to geek out on.
I'm sure you can tell how I like more info from how long-winded I am, sorry about that BTW! Thanks for sticking with me.
7
Central Boiler / Re: E-Classic owners, let's talk temps
« on: October 19, 2014, 07:16:28 AM »
Great stuff guys thank you. Sounds like I am on the right track, currently pulsing every 11 mins for 50 sec (according to the manual that is the longest setting for length of air pulse). I will try to up it to 60 if possible. And I guess bring the frequency of pulse down to 8 or 9 minutes. (As I was writing this post UPSGuy03 posted that you can pulse for 120 secs! That may be my answer right there. Thanks!)
You are correct, once there is demand and a full burn cycle begins (if there are any coals at all), the boiler quickly gets the reaction chamber up to temp and heats the water to setpoint no problem. However, I am still curious about what your reaction chamber temps are during idle mode and after a pulse just as a reference point.
The reason is that I am watching Firestar XP on the computer and can tell what's happening to the fire during long idle periods by looking at that temp. Example:
10/19/2014 4:38:57 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 184.2°F 184°F 1h 1m
10/19/2014 4:38:03 AM EST Pulse Low On Off Off On 183.9°F 183°F 1h
10/19/2014 4:36:20 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 184.2°F 183°F 1h
From that you can see a pulse happened, and it brought the reaction chamber up 1 degree. That tells me at least there is a little bit of fire in there that got stoked when the air hit it, if only a small amount. In theory, if there were demand, the boiler would be able to get up to temp by keeping the air going.
Now here's the next pulse:
10/19/2014 4:54:45 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 183.7°F 183°F 1h 2m
10/19/2014 4:53:55 AM EST Pulse Low On Off Off On 183.3°F 183°F 1h 1m
10/19/2014 4:46:28 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 184°F 183°F 1h 1m
Reaction chamber temp stayed the same, but the water temp rose .4 degrees so again there is reason to believe the pulse of air did something.
Less than an hour later:
10/19/2014 5:42:28 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 182.1°F 181°F 1h 4m
10/19/2014 5:41:36 AM EST Pulse Low On Off Off On 182.3°F 181°F 1h 3m
10/19/2014 5:37:29 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 182.3°F 181°F 1h 3m
You can see a pulse happened, but both temps dropped. This is when I believe I have lost the coals. From there both temps steadily drop together. At that point the water is keeping the reaction chamber hot, not the fire.
For comparison, here's a pulse from earlier in the night wen all the temps are higher and I think working a little better:
10/18/2014 11:21:15 PM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 191.4°F 211°F 44m
10/18/2014 11:20:30 PM EST Pulse Low On Off Off On 191.3°F 202°F 43m
10/18/2014 11:10:14 PM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 191.8°F 205°F 43m
So this is why I am curious about others' reaction chamber temps during idle. Even though it is somewhat arbitrary, it is an indication of what the coals are doing during idle mode. Do your reaction chamber temsp stay in the 200s throughout idle/pulse mode? Ever see 190s or 180s? (Anyone care to post a clip from their Firestar XP log showing some idle/pulse time?)
I went out there at 7 and lit it back up, turned on the demand in the house and we're rolling again. Another suspicion I have is that my coal bed is not full enough, meaning it is good in the middle but the coals around the perimeter of the firebox floor are never getting hot. Seems all the airflow is in the center around the charge tube and there's not much action around the edges. Any tips for getting a nice, even fire that fills the whole box?
Thank you guys very much. This forum is great I have learned so much reading old threads. Really looking forward to this heating season.
You are correct, once there is demand and a full burn cycle begins (if there are any coals at all), the boiler quickly gets the reaction chamber up to temp and heats the water to setpoint no problem. However, I am still curious about what your reaction chamber temps are during idle mode and after a pulse just as a reference point.
The reason is that I am watching Firestar XP on the computer and can tell what's happening to the fire during long idle periods by looking at that temp. Example:
10/19/2014 4:38:57 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 184.2°F 184°F 1h 1m
10/19/2014 4:38:03 AM EST Pulse Low On Off Off On 183.9°F 183°F 1h
10/19/2014 4:36:20 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 184.2°F 183°F 1h
From that you can see a pulse happened, and it brought the reaction chamber up 1 degree. That tells me at least there is a little bit of fire in there that got stoked when the air hit it, if only a small amount. In theory, if there were demand, the boiler would be able to get up to temp by keeping the air going.
Now here's the next pulse:
10/19/2014 4:54:45 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 183.7°F 183°F 1h 2m
10/19/2014 4:53:55 AM EST Pulse Low On Off Off On 183.3°F 183°F 1h 1m
10/19/2014 4:46:28 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 184°F 183°F 1h 1m
Reaction chamber temp stayed the same, but the water temp rose .4 degrees so again there is reason to believe the pulse of air did something.
Less than an hour later:
10/19/2014 5:42:28 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 182.1°F 181°F 1h 4m
10/19/2014 5:41:36 AM EST Pulse Low On Off Off On 182.3°F 181°F 1h 3m
10/19/2014 5:37:29 AM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 182.3°F 181°F 1h 3m
You can see a pulse happened, but both temps dropped. This is when I believe I have lost the coals. From there both temps steadily drop together. At that point the water is keeping the reaction chamber hot, not the fire.
For comparison, here's a pulse from earlier in the night wen all the temps are higher and I think working a little better:
10/18/2014 11:21:15 PM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 191.4°F 211°F 44m
10/18/2014 11:20:30 PM EST Pulse Low On Off Off On 191.3°F 202°F 43m
10/18/2014 11:10:14 PM EST Idle Idle Off Off Off Off 191.8°F 205°F 43m
So this is why I am curious about others' reaction chamber temps during idle. Even though it is somewhat arbitrary, it is an indication of what the coals are doing during idle mode. Do your reaction chamber temsp stay in the 200s throughout idle/pulse mode? Ever see 190s or 180s? (Anyone care to post a clip from their Firestar XP log showing some idle/pulse time?)
I went out there at 7 and lit it back up, turned on the demand in the house and we're rolling again. Another suspicion I have is that my coal bed is not full enough, meaning it is good in the middle but the coals around the perimeter of the firebox floor are never getting hot. Seems all the airflow is in the center around the charge tube and there's not much action around the edges. Any tips for getting a nice, even fire that fills the whole box?
Thank you guys very much. This forum is great I have learned so much reading old threads. Really looking forward to this heating season.
8
Central Boiler / E-Classic owners, let's talk temps
« on: October 18, 2014, 08:50:14 AM »
Hello all. New 1450 up and running a couple of days ago (thanks btw for your help a couple of months ago, went with the gasser after all). Still learning how to run this thing. I can't find anywhere in the manual that gives recommended ranges of temps, for instance while in idle mode.
I can get it pretty hot (1100-1200 max so far in stage 3), and it brings the water up to temp quickly. My heat load is radiant slab and DHW, so the heat load is heavy for awhile then draws nothing for several hours. During that time, water temp stays pretty constant around 185 and the unit is idling. Eventually the reaction chamber temp drops into the 190s, and it seems around there I start to loose my coals. Pulsing for 50 secs every 30 mins was only bringing reaction chamber temp up to 200-210 for a brief period, then it would quickly drop to the 190s again.
The first night I woke up at 4am and the water temp was 183, reaction chamber 183. The fire was out. I played with it all day trying to get a better coal bed established, running heat through the slab with the windows open just to make a heavier load. I changed the pluse to every 15mins and still I slowly lost the fire over the course of idling/pulsing for several hours. Last night I changed the pulse to every 11 mins, the reaction chamber stayed at 190 and there was just enough ember in the very center this morning to get it fired back up but barely, most of the coals had again gone out. Better, but still not there. And I would like it to pulse less frequently if possible.
What are your reaction chamber temperatures while in idle/pulse mode? I'm trying to get a feel for what idle temps indicate a good coal bed that will say lit through the night even if there is no demand and it never goes into a burn cycle.
Any other suggestions for me on keeping a good bed of coals while idling for long periods of time? Maybe I don't have enough coals to begin with?
Given my demand is so low (small, very well insulated house), I expect to not burn much wood unless it gets really cold. I am at the lower end the 1450's output range without question (but they don't make a smaller one). Manual says to only add enough wood for 12 hours or so, till next load. (Would be great if I could load every 24 instead of every 12 hrs). Granted the temps are still pretty warm outside but for me that seems like about 6-8 sticks at most, not a big box full.
I know this has an effect on the way it burns, any experienced advice would be most welcome. Thanks again for all your knowledge and support!
-Frank
I can get it pretty hot (1100-1200 max so far in stage 3), and it brings the water up to temp quickly. My heat load is radiant slab and DHW, so the heat load is heavy for awhile then draws nothing for several hours. During that time, water temp stays pretty constant around 185 and the unit is idling. Eventually the reaction chamber temp drops into the 190s, and it seems around there I start to loose my coals. Pulsing for 50 secs every 30 mins was only bringing reaction chamber temp up to 200-210 for a brief period, then it would quickly drop to the 190s again.
The first night I woke up at 4am and the water temp was 183, reaction chamber 183. The fire was out. I played with it all day trying to get a better coal bed established, running heat through the slab with the windows open just to make a heavier load. I changed the pluse to every 15mins and still I slowly lost the fire over the course of idling/pulsing for several hours. Last night I changed the pulse to every 11 mins, the reaction chamber stayed at 190 and there was just enough ember in the very center this morning to get it fired back up but barely, most of the coals had again gone out. Better, but still not there. And I would like it to pulse less frequently if possible.
What are your reaction chamber temperatures while in idle/pulse mode? I'm trying to get a feel for what idle temps indicate a good coal bed that will say lit through the night even if there is no demand and it never goes into a burn cycle.
Any other suggestions for me on keeping a good bed of coals while idling for long periods of time? Maybe I don't have enough coals to begin with?
Given my demand is so low (small, very well insulated house), I expect to not burn much wood unless it gets really cold. I am at the lower end the 1450's output range without question (but they don't make a smaller one). Manual says to only add enough wood for 12 hours or so, till next load. (Would be great if I could load every 24 instead of every 12 hrs). Granted the temps are still pretty warm outside but for me that seems like about 6-8 sticks at most, not a big box full.
I know this has an effect on the way it burns, any experienced advice would be most welcome. Thanks again for all your knowledge and support!
-Frank
9
Central Boiler / Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« on: July 27, 2014, 07:15:10 PM »I have a eclassic (in ma have no choice) nice to see you live in a live free state and have a choice, the eclassic uses less wood but I think I do more cleaning then the people with reg units, if you have tons of wood I might go for the reg unit
I've read and re-read numerous threads, I can't see the cleaning taking near as long as to cut the extra wood.
I get serious about cutting wood when I do, fill a five yard dump truck numerous times a day, try to only cut 2 or 3 times a winter. I'f I have to spend 20 minutes cleaning once a week compared to 45 minutes or an hour extra each week cutting wood, cleaning definitely wins out.
Thank you both for your thoughts. I think you're right, cleaning time < time spent on extra wood.
My hangup on cleaning is possibly going out of town for a week or two during the winter. I'm kinda worried that without dedicated help that might be tough with either model....what do you guys do when you have to leave?
I hear you about getting as much wood as possible at a time. This is going to be quite a bit more wood than I'm used to processing but I'm looking forward to it.
Roger, thank you too for your insight. The learning curve is something I am looking forward to. I know it will feel really good to have this baby hummin right and to be heating the house and water so efficiently. It'll probably take me awhile, and I'll probably make some user errors in the process. Just hope I don't burn it up like a couple of pics I have seen. Yikes!
Do you use forced air to heat your home? I am trying to get an idea of how much wood I'm going to use for the radiant floor. My house is smaller too and painfully tight. Thinking these two things might bring the heat demand down.
So here's a question (for anybody): if my max demand is in the middle of the 1450's BTU output range, does that mean I will actually burn less wood? Or will the unit burn about the same amount anyway and the pump will just run less or slower?
And would that answer be any different for the classic 4030?
Visiting the CB dealer tomorrow and hoping that will make it easier to make this decision. All of your help is most appreciated!
10
Central Boiler / Classic or E-Classic?
« on: July 26, 2014, 04:27:19 PM »
Hello everyone, getting ready to buy the OWB in the next couple of weeks. Been online a ton learning more and more. I'm getting close, but want to get some up-to-date summer '14 opinions on this one. Here's where I'm at:
Seems the favorites are CB, P&M, Heatmor, Heatmaster. I think I've ruled out stainless steel. Been talking to the CB dealer who's 50 mi away and he seems pretty solid. Going by there Monday to look at his setup and stock. Pretty sure at this point I will go with a CB. I'll admit the July rebate for $400-600 is enticing. But I'm not gonna let that be the most important factor.
The new federal rules that go into effect next year seem to have major implications for this industry and thus my decision. The way I understand it companies will no longer be able to manufacture "classic" or non-gassifying boilers. For most of them that is their bread and butter and always has been. Seems like those companies are going to struggle to make the jump to all gassifier sales. Companies will probably shut down. From what I understand CB has been in the gassifier game for 10ish years, and their e-classics basically wrote the book the EPA is reading and repeating. Perhaps this is not perfectly accurate, and I hope someone will step in here if that is not the case. If that is the case, CB seems like a better bet to survive the next couple of years and be around to stand behind their product in the years to follow.
But for now I still have the choice, Classic or E-Classic. If they were closer in price I would probably go for the E-Classic. I like the idea and efficiency of "full burn" or whatever you want to call it. I'm an energy geek, so getting all the BTUs out of the wood sounds nice. But maybe not $5000 nice. The emissions thing matters too, but I really don't feel like my carbon footprint is going to be that much bigger by burning wood traditionally vs. gassifying. Guess I could do the math, but I don't really think that should be the decisive factor either.
I guess the most important thing to me is using it. Time spent operating and maintaining. I don't mind working for my heat instead of paying for it, but less is better than more in either regard. So how much time will I spend on getting wood ready, and how much time will I spend cleaning the unit I suppose have become my primary points of comparison.
I have plenty of wood available on the property. Seasoning it won't be too much trouble, we already keep wood for years and burn the oldest stuff. Burn from one end and add to the other. But it will take extra effort I believe to store a larger amount and maintain dryness so carefully for such a long period of time (for the e-classic) as opposed to just choppin and burnin a little more loosely (for the classic). So that is a consideration.
Also the quality, we don't have oak or locust trees die or fall every year. Sometimes we get lucky, but sometimes I'll be burning poplar and other less-than-ideal woods. In fact I have a LOT of poplar right now. A whole lot.
At the same time, some things say I'll burn 40% less with the E-Classic. Can anyone confirm this notion? That would be pretty significant.
Finally maintenance. Seems like weekly cleaning is necessary with the E-Classic, but maybe not so with the Classic? How much time do you guys normally spend on the unit doing things besides loading wood into the firebox? And pretty much plan on a deep cleaning once a year on either type?
It is fairly easy to make a case for E-Classic, until you throw in the $5k price difference and it tips the scale right back in the middle somewhere. Instead of spinning my wheels any longer I thought I would see what others had to say. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice you guys might have.
Seems the favorites are CB, P&M, Heatmor, Heatmaster. I think I've ruled out stainless steel. Been talking to the CB dealer who's 50 mi away and he seems pretty solid. Going by there Monday to look at his setup and stock. Pretty sure at this point I will go with a CB. I'll admit the July rebate for $400-600 is enticing. But I'm not gonna let that be the most important factor.
The new federal rules that go into effect next year seem to have major implications for this industry and thus my decision. The way I understand it companies will no longer be able to manufacture "classic" or non-gassifying boilers. For most of them that is their bread and butter and always has been. Seems like those companies are going to struggle to make the jump to all gassifier sales. Companies will probably shut down. From what I understand CB has been in the gassifier game for 10ish years, and their e-classics basically wrote the book the EPA is reading and repeating. Perhaps this is not perfectly accurate, and I hope someone will step in here if that is not the case. If that is the case, CB seems like a better bet to survive the next couple of years and be around to stand behind their product in the years to follow.
But for now I still have the choice, Classic or E-Classic. If they were closer in price I would probably go for the E-Classic. I like the idea and efficiency of "full burn" or whatever you want to call it. I'm an energy geek, so getting all the BTUs out of the wood sounds nice. But maybe not $5000 nice. The emissions thing matters too, but I really don't feel like my carbon footprint is going to be that much bigger by burning wood traditionally vs. gassifying. Guess I could do the math, but I don't really think that should be the decisive factor either.
I guess the most important thing to me is using it. Time spent operating and maintaining. I don't mind working for my heat instead of paying for it, but less is better than more in either regard. So how much time will I spend on getting wood ready, and how much time will I spend cleaning the unit I suppose have become my primary points of comparison.
I have plenty of wood available on the property. Seasoning it won't be too much trouble, we already keep wood for years and burn the oldest stuff. Burn from one end and add to the other. But it will take extra effort I believe to store a larger amount and maintain dryness so carefully for such a long period of time (for the e-classic) as opposed to just choppin and burnin a little more loosely (for the classic). So that is a consideration.
Also the quality, we don't have oak or locust trees die or fall every year. Sometimes we get lucky, but sometimes I'll be burning poplar and other less-than-ideal woods. In fact I have a LOT of poplar right now. A whole lot.
At the same time, some things say I'll burn 40% less with the E-Classic. Can anyone confirm this notion? That would be pretty significant.
Finally maintenance. Seems like weekly cleaning is necessary with the E-Classic, but maybe not so with the Classic? How much time do you guys normally spend on the unit doing things besides loading wood into the firebox? And pretty much plan on a deep cleaning once a year on either type?
It is fairly easy to make a case for E-Classic, until you throw in the $5k price difference and it tips the scale right back in the middle somewhere. Instead of spinning my wheels any longer I thought I would see what others had to say. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice you guys might have.
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