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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: I'm looking for EXPERT opinions

« on: March 13, 2015, 08:59:46 AM »

The add has had 267 views and 6 watching but not a single offer or question about it as of yet.  Maybe I didn't make myself clear that this is "The finest in updraft GASSIFICATION" that ALL the other big companies are trying to copy!  I understand that my add was a little difficult to read through so I revised it for better reading,  Evidently that didn't help as I have had numerous views of it without folks jumping on this to make an offer.  I am curious if I made it clear how great this "lil Powerhouse" is and in that it is advertised as what the BIG companies use as their lead?

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: I'm looking for EXPERT opinions

« on: March 08, 2015, 09:54:12 AM »

I just listed this OWB for sale on eBay should someone be looking for "The finest in updraft GASIFICATION" technology.  I've heard and read that ALL the big manufacturers are trying to obtain this technology!

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: I'm looking for EXPERT opinions

« on: March 03, 2015, 08:48:36 PM »

To update this situation I have been in contact with the manufacturer and even had a welder he recommended out to look at the boiler to see about repairing it.  When the manufacturer got back with me he stated that we needed to fill the boiler with water to see where the actual leak was.  I said OK, I would continue to try to work with him and when it warmed up I went out with 25 gallons of HOT tap water and filled the boiler water reservoir.  I didn't see any leak on the inside of the firebox but did see the small dripping on the outside of the firebox when I removed the access door to look at the water level.  I left the water sit in the boiler for nearly four hours and never did see it leak on the inside of the firebox but it continued to have a small leak running down the outside corner at the back of the firebox.  I drained the water because of the cold temps and sent the manufacturer an e-mail of what I found and to tell him the welder would NOT be able to fix what they could not see.  I got NO communication from the seller after my e-mail so I posted for expert advise on another forum of www.hearth.com and was surprised to see another person that had the same problems with one of these units and a thread going back to 2009 about this very unit at http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lil-powerhouse-boiler.29342/   After I read through the 6 pages of discussion and seeing the same ole rambling on from the manufacturer without addressing any of the issues, I called the manufacturer.  I told him that his request to put water in the reservoir did NOT show a leak inside that the welder could repair BUT it did show the exact very same leak on the outside of the firebox.  The phone went dead and after several minutes of silence, I said Hello, hello are you still there and he responded "YES, I'm just trying to think where that leak could be and thinking I will have to go back and look at the pictures you sent."  At that point I told him I was tired of messing with this unit and I knew he would NOT return my money as he has never accepted any responsibility for the issues seen in my unit in the short 6-8 week time frame of actually using it so would he be interested in buying it back CHEAP?  His answer was NO.  Of course my patients were wore then and the conversation then went south and I told him he left me no choice but to advertise his unit on eBay where I bought it and that I would NOT back down from listing item as I saw it.  He then said he would sue me if I libeled his company to which I replied, "I am not the other guy that listed his defective OWB that he purchased from him on ebay but he got him to remove the ad by threatening libel and in fact I cherish that opportunity to defend his allegations in court!"  I knew discussing this claim of libel with the manufacturer was an exercise in futility so I hung up with him.  As soon as I can get good pictures of this "Finest in GASIFICATION" LIL Powerhouse Hydronic heater I will post my used unit for sale that even the manufacturer would NOT buy back.  OH he did say he would repair it for me BUT that would mean I would have to pay shipping to/from of 1000 miles one way plus material and labor as it had only a 90 day warranty.  This is why I asked for expert opinions and I may need them in court BUT I think I have to do this to prevent unknowing consumers as I was go uninformed about this particular manufacturer.  It appears there are probably more other than me that have had such problems in short usage time periods.  here is a link to the thread from the other site for your reading pleasure  http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lil-powerhouse-boiler.29342/

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: I'm looking for EXPERT opinions

« on: February 12, 2015, 08:00:05 PM »

Thanks to all who have had input on this thread and to those who have PM's me as well.  I am looking for definitive answers to a lot of questions I have pertaining to OWB and it appears that I find mostly subjective answers.  I totally understand that circumstances can vary by situation but I have some questions and or concerns as a product consumer that I think an industry should be able to answer definitively.  Please bear with me on the length of this post.
Why would an OWB, gasification furnace be designed to burn only dry, split, cured wood.  I am curious as to what that actually means?     What is a recognized method of knowing the moisture content of the wood one is burning and is there an industry standard as to what is considered dry, cured wood.  Is one of those moisture meters that I see firewood dealers use when selling dried cured wood an accepted means of measuring moisture content?  What is the basis for burning dry, split, cured wood and does burning wood up to say 25-30% moisture cause the firebox to fail prematurely or is it merely an issue of efficiency in that green wood uses up the heat in just drying it first?   What is the standard gauge of metal used in an OWB firebox especially one that is a gasification boiler.  What exactly defines a gasification OWB, is it simply forcing air into the combustion chamber such as a forge would do?  I know the EPA has gotten involved in this industry and is it the standard for ALL those EPA tested, to burn only dry, split, cured wood.  Are all OWB required to burn dry, cured wood and if not why?
Would a boiler the size of the one I pictured would be able to heat the same size building, on the same amount of wood that was cut, split and cured for a years heating with one of the huge outdoor wood boilers heat it for two or three years longer?  Here's a several thousand dollar question, will burning wood at 20-30 percent moisture content cause a firebox or the welds to fail if burning such for a time period of 6-8 weeks?  How about having an OWB sitting in a totally enclosed pole barn for a couple of years without any liquid in the reservoir causing the firebox or welds to fall in this very same 6 to 8 week time frame?  What would those with experience and expertise think about a claim that a jar from a 6” tree limb striking the cabinet of such an OWB causing cracking or breaking the welds on the opposite diagonal corner inside a firebox?  I’m a novice on OWB and welding but all I have heard about welds is that they should actually be as strong or stronger than the original pieces of metal joined together if done correctly?

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: I'm looking for EXPERT opinions

« on: February 08, 2015, 06:31:37 PM »

My home is 16 years old with 2352 square feet over a poured concrete basement that is 1680 square feet.  I do NOT heat the basement per se but that is where the furnace is that is a combination heating/air conditioning electric heat pump system and I know there is some bleed off.  The OWB is 40 feet from the house that is plumbed with 3/4" pex pipe running through the 8" basement wall into 6" schedule 40 PVC pipe that is glued together into one continuous piece.  Inside the 6" PVC is 5" diameter 4 foot long, two piece Styrofoam insulation that has two 1" or so holes in the middle for the pex.  This is made specifically for this purpose by Foam Plus LLC.  The pieces of foam are then duct taped together and slid into the schedule 40 PVC.  This one piece sealed pipe runs about three feet deep in the ground and is stubbed up into a concrete slab that my OWB sets on so as to enclose the pex in that PVC.  There is approx. 205' of total pipe in a closed loop system that is filled with the 25 gallons of boiler anti freeze.  80' of the total length of the loop is in the ground on the outside of the basement with 40 feet from the boiler to the basement and 40 feet returning from the basement back to the boiler.   This closed loop runs through a 50S brazed plate domestic water heat exchanger and then to a 16x18 water to air heat exchanger in the furnace plenum which is as big as I could get in the plenum.  The system has a taco o11 pump circulating the anti freeze.  I don't remember the size of the firebox but I load it as full as I can which is about 18 pieces of split wood about 20" long.  The vast majority of what I have burned is red oak.  I have temperature gauges installed in both the exit and return lines and I seem to get about a 30 - 35 degree drop in temperature when it has been in the low teens.  When it is around 30+ it doesn't seem to show much loss.  The firebox only has what appears to be a foil colored bubble wrap around it with the seams taped with actual foil tape.  I'm going to try to put a picture of the boiler below.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: I'm looking for EXPERT opinions

« on: February 08, 2015, 07:53:16 AM »

My intent with posting here was NOT to bash but rather to get input from those with the experience or experts about if  this unit  leaking in a mere 6 weeks or less and if burning 7 cords of wood in an area where the winter thus far has been relatively between 20-40 degrees is the norm for an OWB and if not why.  I'm in the Midwest so we don't get the drastic cold as those further north get and from what I have seen from this one I would have froze to death even at these temps or burned all the "cured" wood in my area.  I am searching for those with experience or expertise so I can have some knowledge to be able to say, that burning green wood could even cause this to happen in 6 weeks and using that much wood is totally out of the norm.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: I'm looking for EXPERT opinions

« on: February 07, 2015, 06:13:41 PM »

Thank you all for the welcome and the replies up to now.  I purposely did not state the brand but did give a pretty good description.  It is actually advertised as an outdoor wood-fired hydronic heater and once looking at it over it goes on to say "the finest in updraft gasification.  I have a ton of pictures that I have sent to the manufacturer but have not gotten a response from them since I cleaned the boiler and actually found the inside of the firebox wet.  I do not know how to post pictures on here and will wait until the manufacturer has had ample time to respond to my concerns other than state "it's all about burning too green of wood."  Guys, I've never had an outdoor wood burner of any kind and I am what's green but common sense tells me that my wood isn't too green and even if it were not cured as long as it has been, 6 weeks of burning too green wood would NOT cause a firebox leak that quickly especially when it appears right on a weld seam.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / I'm looking for EXPERT opinions

« on: February 06, 2015, 09:34:06 AM »

I bought an updraft gasification outdoor wood hydronic boiler several years ago and just got it all installed and using it this winter.  This boiler is not like the outdoor shed types but one of the smaller looking ones that doesn't take up a lot of back yard space.  It is a closed system that uses boiler antifreeze with about a 25 gallon capacity.  I have kept records of all the wood burned as well as it's moisture readings as this thing was advertised and sold to ONLY burn cured dry wood.  I fired it up for the first time mid November and ran it for about six weeks in which it seemed to use a lot of wood and having to load it every 4 to 6 hours when temps got into the teens or lower.   I also noticed what appeared to be antifreeze leaking from the back of the firebox running down the framework after about three weeks of burning it.  Having cleaned out the ash pan numerous times I had never noticed any sign of it being wet inside the fire box but my antifreeze level was dropping.  I shut the unit down and called the manufacturer to report what I had seen in a mere three weeks of use and the amount of wood being used as it was advertised as using HALF the wood of other brands.  I was told that there was no way the unit could leak antifreeze from that spot unless it was leaking inside as well, which I did not see any signs of.  I was told that the inside had to be cleaned about once a week including removing the grate to assure it was all clear of any residues.  I had been emptying the ash pan as it only took two days to fill up but never thought I would have to remove the grate and clean all that as well.  I removed it all cleaned it up, and redid the plumbing and added temperature gauges in both the lines so I could tell the temp exiting the boiler and the temp of the returned antifreeze.  I then started it again on Feb. 1 and have burned it until this morning Feb. 6.  I went out to load it his morning and it had completely burned out over night in approx. 8- 9 hours.  I decided to do the complete cleanup including removal of the grate, by the way this had already warped pretty badly and one of the cross bars had cracked and found that the corner opposite the one on the outside that appeared to be leaking antifreeze had a glob of tar looking stuff.  Upon cleaning that away I saw a leak on the inside of the firebox right along a weld in that same corner.  To this point I have  NOT seen this on the inside and the manufacturer states that most inside leaks are caused by folks burning wood too green.  I'm no wood boiler expert but it seems a pretty good stretch to say that burning too green of wood for less than 2 months would cause such a leak.  I told them that I have kept records of each load of wood I have burned from my barn storage of which I have had stored from 3 to 10 years and not a single load was more than 25% moisture with most being between 14-20% taken with one of those two prong moisture meters.  The manufacturer then stated that those things were not accurate and I told him probably not as I would have thought that as long as I have had all this wood stored the moisture would have been less than what it showed.  I also told him that I had burned 7 cords of wood in that short time and if that was half of what others burn then these wood boilers are a waste of time and money as that is for only about two months into a winter where we have not had much very cold temperatures.  I'm of the opinion that this leak has nothing to do with wood moisture but rather faulty material and or workmanship.  I also question this brands ability to perform to what is advertised and to certainly not burn half as much wood.  I'm looking for those that know these wood gasification systems and what this scenario sounds like as I'm thinking this is a pretty good sales pitch and using the cured dry wood is a cop out to accepting responsibility for selling an inferior product.

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Electronics / Thermostat wiring help with heat pump and OWB

« on: August 16, 2014, 11:25:01 AM »

I read and printed off a thread on this going back to January 2013 in which Scott7m replied to this very type situation.  What I have is a York heat pump with electric coil back up and air running with a White Rodgers 1F89-11 thermostat.  I read with interest the reply of merely adding a second thermostat along side of this one and came across a Honeywell TH3210D1004 which is a two heat, one cool thermostat in lieu of the one recommended 1 heat/1 cool.  I also saw this addressed in the thread BUT the th3210d1004 has NO "W" terminal.  It has an "R" terminal for power and a "G" terminal for the fan relay.  I am assuming that I can merely jumper the "R" from the old to the "R" on the new and the "G" from the old to the "G" on my new th3210d1004 thermostat?