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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: All electric house. Thoughts?

« on: January 05, 2015, 08:03:11 PM »

here in Ontario Canada right now I am paying about 22 cents per KWH

Don't forget our glorious delivery charge (mine, over $100) and the debt retirement charge.  The debt retirement charge
gets removed (yay!), but then our 10% reduction also gets removed...

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Keep the heat *IN* your building!

« on: January 05, 2015, 11:31:01 AM »

Now with the FREE wood who cares how much fresh cold air goes into the FAF

I agree with you about if the abundance of wood is there, and you can get it for a far cheaper price than other fuels, then it makes absolute
sense.

I'm trying to figure out a method for myself, that when I take from my land, that I plant a tree (preferrably two) in its place.  There are two reasons, the first is that trees being a carbon store will release the carbon on burning.  They do stop absorbing after a period of time, but they keep what they have stored out of the environment.  By planting two, I will have enabled hopefully twice the carbon store, but keeping the management of my land up.  *This is the dream*

Of course, I need to figure out how much that would cost.  Maybe I will raise baby trees in a greenhouse with a wood boiler heating it

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Keep the heat *IN* your building!

« on: January 04, 2015, 08:48:38 PM »

Here's some info for you that's a little more complete, and up to date. 
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/bareports/ba-1105-internal-insulation-masonry-walls-final-measure-guideline/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/confpapers/cp-0910-measuring-impact-interior-insulation-masonry-walls-cold-climate/view?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-114-interior-insulation-retrofits-of-load-bearing-masonry-walls-in-cold-climates?topic=resources/freeze-thaw-damage

This isn't my first rodeo.

Enjoy!

Thanks I'll look it over, although, from what I am seeing from your first link it's still a "We're in a state of wait and see if it causes any damage".  The closed-cell definitely would be my first choice, which seems to be their recommendation, but I still need to see how the story ends in the rest of the PDFs.

Right now, I'm not overly worried about the walls, especially considering once you rip a wall open, you're subjecting yourself into some real potential problems, such as whether or not someone decided to insulate with asbestos, knob and tube wiring needing to be replaced.  Retrofitting these old buildings is something takes a lot of pros and cons to work out.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What do OWB have to offer, that indoor don't. Excluding mess and fire outside?

« on: January 04, 2015, 08:43:57 AM »

Read this other post about the hot water kafuffle at my place.
It wasn't plumbed right for a plate exchanger at the HWT.
I'm putting in a side arm W/W exchanger now.

One fella has a plate and side arm hooked up .

.http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=6915.0

kk

I just read your plate problems.  I'd be getting my money back on the plate 10, or a difference that on the 20.  If you paid for it, you should have it, or the money back.  I realize it's probably not very much, but still. 

I also thought that the incoming hot water hit the plate first and then went to the furnace, so I don't understand those T's.

Either way, I hope you get it sorted out.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Keep the heat *IN* your building!

« on: January 03, 2015, 08:59:59 PM »

I live in a pre-1900 home, stone walls, lathe and plaster.

New windows
Insulation in the roof
Foam wherever I can stuff it in the crawlspace.
I caulk the hell out of anything.

But I'm not going to gut the walls and fill it full of insulation.  There is an air cavity there that has been there since the
house was built.  I want this house here when I'm gone.

Changing the warmth going from the inside of the house to the out, changes where the freeze thaw occurs.  This might
cause deterioration, then again, it might not.  As long as there are cheaper alternatives to fuel, I'm going to go that route.

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/pdf/65033.pdf

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What do OWB have to offer, that indoor don't. Excluding mess and fire outside?

« on: January 03, 2015, 08:48:58 PM »

    I live in eastern Ontario.  Running on my 8th winter with an outdoor boiler.  Simply put if you want to live in canada and heat with wood there is no easier better way to do it.  Our home is cleaner.  Our family is healthier because we don't have wood stored indoors.  We are not breathing in fine whits dust ash particles every time you have to take ashes out.  We heat 2 homes and all our hot water.  Our entire home is warm.  Always!!   Doesn't matter if get home at 6 in the evening or 3 in the morning stumbling drunk...house is warm!!  Easy to put wood in anyone can fill the furnace for u n close the door.  No need to have someone going in ur home and putting wood in playing with drafts etc.

Two homes,, that's pretty wild, the neighbour and you just decide to split the difference?

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What do OWB have to offer, that indoor don't. Excluding mess and fire outside?

« on: January 03, 2015, 05:53:24 PM »

I replaced an indoor wood forced air unit that was plenty warm but made the inside covered with fine ash and smelled like smoke, not a nice fireplace smell.  The Mrs hated then mess and smell so just installed a OWB about a month ago. I currently only have to feed it once a day with temps ranging from occasional mid 30's during the day 10F at night.  I have a water to air he in my plenum and the wife is complaint its to warm if we go above 70-71 and with two teenage kids we did a 30 plate water to water he and I have yet to run out of hot water after back to back to back showers and laundry and dishes.  We have minimal smoke during idle or full burn cycles just when the blower first kicks on.

Yeah, I'm considering whatever way I go, to have a plate just for these very reasons   THanks.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What do OWB have to offer, that indoor don't. Excluding mess and fire outside?

« on: January 03, 2015, 05:47:07 PM »

I live in central Ontario in an older 1400 sq ft farm house.  The current back up system is oil forced air.  My outdoor wood boiler is home built.  It is 165 feet from the house and 90 feet from the shop.   There is an 18 x 18 inch heat exchanger in the plenum which transfers boiler heat through the house and another similar sized HX for the shop.  Absolutely no problem keeping the house warm and comfortable, even at minus 30 or colder, and your local heating company which states otherwise is misinformed and incompetent.  Can't comment on how much wood you will burn. I go through 6 to 7 bush cords per year.  I believe people with gasifier models go through 6 cords or less, and those with the more conventional tank in a tank go through 9 cords but there is a lot of variability depending on outbuildings and heating domestic hot water.

It's good to hear about someone who lives in central Ontario being able to heat with a HX only.  I'm considering a gasification model which ever way I go, simply because of my proximity to the highway (about 500ft <-- that way) and a neighbour (about 350' ---> that way).

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What do OWB have to offer, that indoor don't. Excluding mess and fire outside?

« on: January 03, 2015, 10:28:14 AM »

What other reasons do you need besides mess and fire outside? Longer burn times than a wood stove, better indoor air quality.

For clarity, I'm not looking at a wood stove, I'm looking at a Wood Boiler (or if it makes more sense, a wood furnace, which just doesn't really excite me).

Right now, my biggest problem with OWB's would be the potential smoke.

Also, I'm not only looking at an indoor wood boiler in the house, I have 2 sheds less than 80' away that I could stuff one into.

I don't want to turn into an angry Albertan, storming out in the middle of the night, filming a video about how much wood I go through, with a lack of sleep and such.

One thing I don't understand is, if I were only to put in a boiler system (indoor/outdoor) and a heat exchange in the forced air furnace, how effective would that be?

There is a local heating company who consistently tells me I'm not going to be happy with the heat output of a forced air with a heat exchanger at the registers.  So, this has me somewhat confused.  Can someone heat their house with a boiler with just a heat exchange in the FAF?

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What do OWB have to offer, that indoor don't. Excluding mess and fire outside?

« on: January 03, 2015, 09:09:09 AM »

2: With a OWB you don't need near as well seasoned wood as you do with an indoor unit, chimney fires are completely eliminated with a OWB.

Chimney fires are a concern for sure, but I'm a paranoid person.  If I can get the chimney outside and up the wall, I would likely
watch the creosote like a hawk and clean it frequently.  This isn't trying to say one is better than the other, just that because I am aware of a possibility of a fire, I would certainly try to reduce the chances of it for sure.

3: Size it accordingly and with a OWB you could heat additional out buildings at a later date while a indoor unit may not have the capacity.

Yeah, I'm having a hard time sizing it.   The house for sure, I see a heat exchanger in the Forced Air, maybe a rad or two throughout the house (kitchen, bathroom).  The main floor in exposed in the ceiling of the crawlspace, so radiant heat is an option for sure, other possibilities I may size for is a modine in the crawlspace to keep it warm and one in a mini-uninsulated space outside (maybe).

4: Not sure about Canada but your home insurance should be lower with a OWB compared to an indoor unit.

50' away, thee wouldn't be a problem with insurance.

Thanks.

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General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / What do OWB have to offer, that indoor don't. Excluding mess and fire outside?

« on: January 03, 2015, 08:53:21 AM »

I'm weighing the options.

Location:  Eastern Ontario.

1800 sq ft 1.5 story home.
Masonry walls (blocks of stone, not brick), roughly 2.5 feet thick (from outside to inside lathe and plaster).
Insulation in the ceiling.
Windows are 12 years, double pane.
Fieldstone foundation, drafty.
Currently heating with oil (forced air).

I am looking for an in-expensive (not cheap) way of heating with wood, where I don't need to enter the crawlspace to feed the beast

I am looking for something that has decent length burns (I hope 12 hrs), non-stainless steel(I like the idea of simple welds if crap breaks down), that doesn't require me to push half a forest a year into it and finally,

Videos which just blow my mind as "Holy crap, that's horrible":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Mgn2po54c (6:25->6:28 also proves why she should be wearing steel toes if she isn't).

Right now, I'm considering an indoor wood boiler system (with thermal storage).

I'm still considering a PSG Caddy type system, even though it breaks my "not wanting to enter the crawlspace".  Although, this is unlikely.

What are you thoughts on what I am missing on looking for a system that could be mainly a heat exchanger in the forced air and probably a rad or two in the future?

Thanks!