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Author Topic: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system  (Read 2637 times)

Roger2561

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Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« on: December 08, 2014, 05:52:58 AM »

The problem has nothing to do with the OWB, it's all on the pressurized side of the system.  I'm utilizing the triple aqua stat on the oil burner to start the Taco circ on the return line of the pressurized side.  I noticed about 2:00am (Had to answer a nature call) that the circ appears to be making quite a bit of noise.  It did last year but lasted only for a day or 2, now it appears to be constant.  Its circulating the water just fine but I'm concerned that with the colder months of the winter approaching I want to be sure it's operating at its best; I don't need it failing when its below zero.  I tried looking for numbers to see which Taco pump they installed 20 years ago but due to it being just 2 inches from the wall, the name plate is completely unreadable.  I'm presently heating 3 zones with a 4th zone soon to be plumbed in.  Every zone is controlled by zone valves.  I'm heating approximately 3000sqft of an 1840's farmhouse with okay to decent insulation (I feel no drafts).  I keep the house at 70, 24/7.  Barring calling the guy who installed the system, using your years of experience, how would figure out what Taco circ I have on the unit.  I cannot find any literature on it either anywhere in my house.  And, once I figure out what I have, is it that difficult to change it out?  I pride myself on being a pretty decent DIY'er. I probably won't be around to answer any questions you have due to being in a meeting all day (yippee!) but I hope to get on late this evening.  Thanks, Roger   
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LittleJohn

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 06:55:18 AM »

I would guess you have a Taco 007???  BUT THAT IS JUST A GUESS, A COMPLETELY BLIND GUESS
If you are thinking about a replacement, I would go with either a Taco BumbleBee or Grundfos Alpha. YES THEY are expensive, but are perfect for applications where the load varies (from 1 to potentiall 4 zones be open at once).  The pump can throttle up and down dependant upon calls for heat.

Now about "the noise" in the system; could it be from air possibly getting into the system, maybe an issue where a zone valve failed shut ( yet still turned pump on and its dead-headed), or some other gremlin in the system
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hrc200x

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 08:28:15 AM »

Sounds like you and I have a similar set up and maybe the same problem, my pump is a taco 007 that was probably installed in the mid 90's. I can hear a noise either in the pump or in the lines around the pump, sort of sounds like a muffled rattle. This is the first year its done it, but also the first year using OWB, which I would think shouldn't have anything to do with it.. It may do it more when the pump has to run more often, but thats not verified yet. I've had air in the lines so I know what that sounds like unless different amounts of air will effect the sound.

Maybe when its doing it again I'll try to manually open the zone valve thats calling for heat and see if that helps.

Has anyone had a bearing go bad in a pump, what does that sound like?

Are you able to get a small mirror and read the plate on the pump, like the type dentist use.
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Roger2561

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 04:00:48 PM »

I would guess you have a Taco 007???  BUT THAT IS JUST A GUESS, A COMPLETELY BLIND GUESS
If you are thinking about a replacement, I would go with either a Taco BumbleBee or Grundfos Alpha. YES THEY are expensive, but are perfect for applications where the load varies (from 1 to potentiall 4 zones be open at once).  The pump can throttle up and down dependant upon calls for heat.

Now about "the noise" in the system; could it be from air possibly getting into the system, maybe an issue where a zone valve failed shut ( yet still turned pump on and its dead-headed), or some other gremlin in the system

LittleJohn - I checked the zone valves and it appears that when one of the zones is calling for heat it's actually heating 2 zones.  The copper pipes of the zone not calling for heat is extremely hot to the touch; just the one that is calling for heat.  The copper pipe of the 3rd zone is cool to the touch.  My questions to you are, would it be just the power head that's faulty or the valve body too?  How can I tell if it's one or the other or both?  Thanks for steering me in the right direction.  Roger   
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RSI

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2014, 05:28:45 PM »

As mentioned above there is a pretty good chance it is a 007.
If you go with a variable pump, you don't want the Bumblebee. It is a delta T pump and adjusts the flow based on the two temperature sensors connected to it. The Grundfos Alpha is a delta P pump which is what you would want.

It may or may not be large enough though. The 007 has low head but high flow rate. If a fairly high flow rate is required for your system and the pipes were sized properly the 007 could be moving a lot more water than an Alpha could. Most likely though it would work.
Also, the 007 usually have the flanges rotated 90 degrees from most other pumps. Some pumps are available with a rotated flange option but not sure if the alpha is.
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Roger2561

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 03:43:32 AM »

LittleJohn mentioned that the zone valve may have "deadheaded", I've heard the term before but I never knew what it means.  Someone please educate. 

RSI - I know what delta-T is but not Delta-P.  Please educate me. 

Thanks for the information guys.  I'm learning a lot from this site.  Roger
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LittleJohn

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 06:17:53 AM »

LittleJohn mentioned that the zone valve may have "deadheaded", I've heard the term before but I never knew what it means.  Someone please educate. 

RSI - I know what delta-T is but not Delta-P.  Please educate me. 
Delta P -> Difference in Pressure, so the pump is looking to maintain a certain head pressure, and it will increase or decrease flow to keep a constant pressure

"Dead Heading" means you are trying to pump against a closed valve or other configuration where the loops are blocked
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Roger2561

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 07:53:01 AM »

LittleJohn - Thanks for the info.  That's good stuff to know. 

I'm guessing then the valve is stuck open; heating 2 zones while only 1 zone is calling for heat.  Would that be a faulty power head or valve body or both?  I guess the easiest thing to do is change out the power head and see if that makes a difference.  If not, I'll change the valve body too.  Gonna have to wait for the weekend though, bad weather moving in and I hate driving in snow/freezing rain/ice, etc...

FYI - The noise I spoke of yesterday is not there any longer, the circ ran quiet all night long and it was quiet this morning too.   :-\ 

Thanks for the help.

Roger
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fireboss

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2014, 01:41:38 PM »

I would by a 007 and keep it on the shelf they are on 60 or 70$  at home depot
I have two of them one is for my pressure side bin in service for a round 20 years  I think its the original   and the other one is s spare for the wood burner side going on five years 
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Roger2561

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2014, 05:04:00 PM »

Quick update - First things first; I want to thank everyone for the help.  I appreciate it. 

I have found that the pump is okay.  It's been running quiet for nearly a week.  I have learned that one of the zone valve power head may be faulty.  2 zones were being heated although only 1 zone was calling for heat (grabbing a copper pipe when it's hot but not expecting it...you say bad words   :-\).  I have swapped it out with one that's been sitting on the shelf for awhile and all is quiet now.  After the holidays I'll be purchasing another one for the just in case scenario. 

fireboss; I plan on buying another 007 sooner rather than later.  The system is nearly 20 old and nothing runs forever. 
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fireboss

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Re: Problem on the pressurized system side of my heating system
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2014, 05:22:28 PM »

It only happens on the coldest nights and every thing is closed lol
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