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[Shoot Straight]

Hello All,

I'm in the process of making a decision on purchasing my first OWB and found this site extremely helpful.  It seems there are a lot of really informed members here so I decided to solicit some thoughts and feedback to ensure I'm on the right path and to cut through some of the marketing hype and hear from real users - good, bad, and otherwise.  I would really appreciate your candid feedback, but kindly request that it's informed by personal experience or some sort of expertise related to OWBs - not simply brand loyalty, i.e. I love "insert manufacturer" because "they're awesome"....even if it's from members affiliated with a manufacturer.

Requirements:  So, I have done a few weeks of extensive research and believe an OWB is ideally suited to my needs here in Virginia.  I'm looking to heat an approximately 4,900 square foot modern farm-style home that is well insulated, and a detached workshop of approximately 1,000 sqft. with an apartment above that is approximately 750sqft. Both are currently heated by oil using two separate boilers.  The home is three levels - the first two floors have radiant in-floor heating (including the home's attached garage) and the third level has a couple of radiators.  The detached workshop has radiant in-floor heating in the shop and the apartment above utilizes radiators - it's also well insulated.  I would also like the OWB to heat two hot water tanks - one for the house and another for the detached garage/apartment.  Given those requirements and the big $ to heat with oil, it seems like an OWB would be an excellent option.  My general estimate is that I'll recoup the costs of the OWB, the install and ancillary equipment (minus any wood expenditures) within 3-4 years.  What really sold me was the fact that I can set this up whereby if, for whatever reason, the OWB runs out of wood, the oil simply kicks in and maintains temp....as I do travel periodically.  Lastly, I would love to possibly use an OWB to heat a future pool or a hottub, and an OWB seems like a really efficient way to do so.

As a total aside, I am now trying to convince a buddy of mine that he too needs to look into an OWB....he has a smaller home but a separate, large hangar that eats $ in the winter to heat with propane and electric - so there's the chance of looking at a twofer.

Anyway.....after reviewing many manufacturers specs and endless hours online, I've sort of narrowed it down to three.  These are the Portage and Main EGR 250, the Heatmaster G400, and the Central Boiler Classic Edge 750.  However, I'm still open to input if I'm missing something, and, realistically, I'm really leaning away from the EGR250 as I understand it's significantly more expensive.  I'll detail my thoughts on pros/cons below, and welcome your input if I'm off base or if there's more I should be considering.

Portage and Main:  What attracted me to them is that they appear well made, and the company appears to operate with excellent ethics and integrity which means a LOT.  I was also intrigued by the design of the EGR250 and the fact that the heat exchangers travel horizontally and vertically.  I also really like the use of the refractory brick, as I believe that would prevent corrosion and maintain heat but could crack.  However when I look at the EPA efficiency, it did not appear more efficient than the G400 or Classic Edge 750 which I would have to see to justify the higher price.  The cons for me was that I'm on the East coast and don't know how prevalent P&M is or how that would impact support, particularly as I'm in Virginia.  Having said that, I only read excellent things about the company and their commitment to the customer.  I also don't love the metal hangers in the firebox - my lay person view is that these may need to be replaced at some point which means $$ - but i could be way off.  Either way, this has dropped on my list if I'm looking at over $15k compared to it's equally efficient competitors coming in at $10-12K.  If I lived in a colder environ, I may view things differently.

Central Boiler Classic Edge 750:  So, this company clearly appears to be large with a vast supplier network and many units in the field, for better or worse.  What I like is that my understanding is that this is the best priced and I would worry less about having a good dealer in my area.  I have to say that I'm also intrigued with the WIFI option to monitor the OWB from afar or from inside the house.  This may very well be a gimmick, but tracking efficiency in real time and with solid data does seem appealing.  I was also impressed with the EPA numbers.  I have mixed feelings on the spray foam insulation, and do see that they offer a stainless steel version as well; but I do worry about life expectancy.  The big negative for me is that there are "only" three supply/return ports - I love the option to expand if needed.  Anyway, seems like it would have the BTUs for the job and would be a great option.

HeatMaster G400:  For whatever reason I wasn't following the G400 too closely until reviewing the EPA stats and this really popped out.  I then looked into it further and have to say I'm probably leaning towards the G400.  What I like are the four supply/return ports, the efficiency numbers, and the build quality looks very good - the stainless is appealing, and the lifetime warranty.  The reviews seem to indicate that it eats less than dry wood fairly well too.  I also like the lever to clean the vertical heat exchangers.  I would assume to prefer the P&M horizontal AND vertical exchangers, but the EPA numbers indicate there's no benefits gained over the G400.  On the downside, the smoke diverter is slick, but I could see myself (or my wife) forgetting to return this after reloading wood, despite the red button screaming at you.  Having said that, if this is 2-3k more than the Central Boiler, can I really justify the cost when the efficiency/BTU numbers are so similar? Lastly, I have to say that I was really impressed with the HeatMaster NorthEastern rep on this site, who appears very engaged on the forums, etc. and very involved with his customers.

My apologies for such a long post, and really appreciate any informed feedback.  I'm not looking to make any purchase in the near term, but I have committed to purchasing an OWB and these three seem like great options for my requirements.

[RSI]

I would stay away from anything with horizontal tubes. They are harder to keep clean and the sediment that builds up on the bottom causes corrosion.

[mlappin]

All in all, the CB Edge has a ten year warranty, first year is 100% coverage, the G400 has a lifetime warranty with the first 5 years at 100% coverage. If you opt for the 409 SS version of the Edge then the price is practically the same as the G400 but Heatmasters warranty is still superior. Either option with an Edge the per year cost is still lower for a Heatmaster given the longer warranty. The smokeless loading and easy cleaning of the G400 is also hard if not impossible to beat.

I did the same as you, looked into the Optimizer 250 and at the time it was undersized for what I needed. Drove the next county over to the nearest CB dealer and looked at the Eclassics, left there unimpressed, about 60% of that was strictly due to the dealer, drove to the next town over and seriously looked at the Nature Comfort’s GT6000. Decided to stay away from all three as I already had a mild steel boiler and decided mild steel, cold outside air and a fire inside will cause condensation which will rot something out sooner or later.

Went with the G400, couldn’t be happier and actually looking forward to it getting cold enough so I can justify relighting it, never really looked forward to that with my old one as it meant cutting a lot of wood.

I’ve met a few people from Heatmaster corporate already, outstanding people, another reason I went with a G series, was a big reason I’m also a dealer now, so take the above advice and observations with a grain of salt.

[slimjim]

Well, I as the northeastern dealer rep for HeatMaster Thank you for your kind words!
Advice on your purchase? I will not belittle myself or you by telling you which unit to go with but I do have some very sound advice for you, you have a big investment to make in order to complete a project like you are writing about, the one thing I did not see in your post is who will be installing and servicing your unit, we here at Mainly Custom learned a long while ago about promises made before the sale and then as soon as the check clears pfffft they are gone. We here have built our business/reputation over the years by offering a one throat to choke solution, if I were in your shoes, I would certainly put lots of thought into this part of your buying process!

[fireboss]

My 2 cents  if I was in the market and knowing what I no now from this group I would buy what the big dogs on her are using  like slim he works in the industry and probably bin for ever  and mlappin he always has good advice on almost every topic,rsi the same and they all agree most of the time so that tells the story rite there! Just my 2 cents

[Watt2323]

I cant speak to the EGR250 specifically but what I can speak to is Portage and Main. I have a BL-3444 I bout about a year ago and I love it. Brian and everyone at P&M are awesome to deal with as their customer service is second to none. They are always willing and open to answer any and all questions. As far as quality they are in my opinion the best out there. I too have done extensive research before buying mine last season. Portage and main stood out to me and I am glad I bought one. The best thing is I have compared other boilers my friends have (Central Boiler, Hawken, Heatmoor and Ridgewood) and I burn about half as much wood as they do. Less wood to burn means less work for my 10 and 14 year old boys, I mean less work for me  best of luck let us know how it goes

[Shoot Straight]

Fellas,

Really appreciate the feedback.  I'll keep you posted, and I'm sure I'll have a few more questions along the way.

[Shoot Straight]

Well, I as the northeastern dealer rep for HeatMaster Thank you for your kind words!
Advice on your purchase? I will not belittle myself or you by telling you which unit to go with but I do have some very sound advice for you, you have a big investment to make in order to complete a project like you are writing about, the one thing I did not see in your post is who will be installing and servicing your unit, we here at Mainly Custom learned a long while ago about promises made before the sale and then as soon as the check clears pfffft they are gone. We here have built our business/reputation over the years by offering a one throat to choke solution, if I were in your shoes, I would certainly put lots of thought into this part of your buying process!

Slim:  I was indeed referring to you and considering my property is in Virginia it was great to see how involved you are with your customers.  As you mentioned, service after purchase is a big deal and will be a significant factor.  I'm still unsure about installation, but recognize that's equal important to the equipment.  Either way, I want to be very involved with the install so I know the system in/out but haven't precluded bringing in a pro in to assist.

A couple of questions specific to Heatmaster.......Based on my requirements (less than 7,000 sqft. of finished and well insulated area between two structures), am I on the mark in considering the G400?  Is there any reason to believe I would not achieve a 12hr. or more burn time?  I'm assuming my requirements would exceed the load that the G200 is designed for?

[mlappin]

Not to step on Slims toes, but depends what part of Virginia your in, I’m not at all familiar with the winters there, here a G200 would be pressed to keep up with 7000 sq ft if a polar vortex came along, of course last nasty polar vortex we had some -40 temps.

[slimjim]

Well, I did my 6800 feet including the my very poorly insulated shop with the boiler that I also showed this year, it now has over 20 full cord fired through it and no issues other than scratches and a bit of staining BUT it also was getting 8-10 hour burns on a stuffed firebox with no backup heat, I am now running the G 400 and the G 200 is up for sale.
Your choice but I think I would go for the 400.

[Shoot Straight]

Thanks to all, the feedback has been very helpful.

[patvetzal]

Two years ago my neighbour bought a Central Boiler to heat is old house. Looked interesting so I asked another friend who swore by Polar. He heats his house, shop, hot tub, domestic water and loves it. He is on his third Polar owb in ten years and delivers firewood as a sideline. The neighbour with the Central Boiler has learned to buy LOTS of wood each spring.
I found an older second hand Portage and Main and with the help of the boys at the plant did a temperary connection last Dec. This fall we are connecting a second house to the system. Can't say enough about the company, even when it is a ten year old boiler that needs the teck support. It is almost as easy to clean as our wood stove but I do wish I could add a large visible thermometer. System works fine running on its own but I would like to check the water temp from the kitchen window..

[silver star]

I would say that customer service and follow up are critical. I like my unit, and the crew was competent and friendly.  Little question here and there afterwards, a call back  was non existent.

I even referred a coworker to them. No call backs, stopped by the business a county away, and asked for the installer to contact him- nothing.  Sucks when you have a person willing to throw 10K or more your way and no call.   He missed out on buying a non EPA unit before the Indiana deadline.

[Uponthehill]

 Very good posts so far. As a portage and Main owner I don't believe I am biased.   However,  I cannot say one bad thing about my BL 2840,  which heats a 2800 square-foot home and my 1700 square-foot shop.   This will be my third season. I actually called portage and Main today and was told that Brian would call me back. I got a return call in less than five minutes as Brian was on the phone with someone else. My question to Brian was answered. Portage and Main is very involved with their customers and I feel  that they answer all questions for all customers.  There are a few people close to me that own an outdoor wood boiler. Most of which wanted to see what a portage and Main look like.  Every person that has looked at my boiler all comment on the quality workmanship of P&M. I would agree with Slim as he stated you need to make your own decision as it is a rather large investment.   I'm sure the other manufactures of the outdoor wood bowlers are great pieces of equipment. Keep reading to educate yourself as there are knowledgeable professionals on this site willing to assist.   Stay warm ...

[silver star]

Another point on the "investment".  Rather than figure how soon a person gets their money back- there is a more immediate return.
If a guy has the cash in a CD or bank account, the money is better spent on an OWB. Look at the fonancial return each month when ypu are writing smaller utility checks.  My all electric home ran over 1,000 bucks some months. My neighbor was being killed by propane costs. I get a 10% return on one month, not a year.    Couldnt have done better if i was a stock market whiz.