Print

[Bill G]

Mr. RSI,

Picture/diagram worth a thousand words,  Jr. won't be home til 10pm, and we'll work on that! 

Bill

[Bill G]

hey guys,

Best we could do on pic's was to get them on the forum gallery.  There under Bill G,  furnace pic's.  Hope it works...

Bill

[Ridgekid]

Wow- Awesome install. Very professional!

[RSI]

Because it all didn't fit in the picture, I am trying to figure out a few things.
Where does the pipe going straight up out of the boiler go? Does the pump near the pex connection run all the time?

[Bill G]

Good Morning!

Ridge,  Can only take credit for OWB hook-up, as "Real Pro" did the work on existing house.  I'm just trying to keep with the manner in which he laid out that end!  It does look clean, but has some bugs as you know!

Mr. RSI,   The 1" copper coming straight up out of propane boiler branches out to the various zones in house.  Pics ain't that great, but if you could see where I cut into it, added tee.  Pumps are on return side of zones to that common horizontal 1" return.  Use to go back into bottom of boiler.  I put that into top, (tee, fp valve, check valve-clapper/swing type).  Thinking when a zone calls for heat, the pump pressure from zone pump would close check valve so it can't back feed into discharge/top of boiler.  Go out other side of return, up through HX and back through cont. on pump into bottom of boiler. 

     My tihinking now tells me the check valve doesn't close, because pressure is greater going into and out top of boiler.  Need to find a type of valve that elctronically closes.  A tee type valve that closes off that tee and lets water go up to zone.  No call for heat and closes off so water just circles through HX.  Is there such an animal made that can be wired so that when a zone calls it functions as described???
A switching type valve?? 
     And, also will add in those flow check valves under the pumps today, so's water can't back-feed up through pumps.

Your thoughts, expertise greatly appreciated, all of you guys!

Bill G

[Ridgekid]

BillG-

When ever you guys talk about your installations I refer to this page to "see" what your talking about. Not sure if it will offer any ideas.....

http://www.centralboiler.com/otherExamples.html

[Bill G]

Ridge,   Closing in on what I need.  I see that 3 way zone valve  and think that is what I'm after!  No experience w/such, but will shortly!

Thanks,  will get after it.

Bill

[Bill G]

Guys,

       Installed much better type check valve.  Worked to get air out of this plumbing monstrausity(spelling, who cares!!).  Gaining on it.
I think...   Fire out all day in OWB and water dropped to 100 deg.  Lesson learned today, is propane boiler runs forever trying to heat that 240 gal of water outside!!  I'll quickly, well, kinda quick, remembered to shut off OWB circ pump and close valves before playing that game again!  Figured I would fire up propane boiler so Sonny-boy would have hot water in the morning for his shower and to make sure all air out of system.
HX must work pretty good, as it quickly cooled the water from much smaller capacity propane boiler. 

      Tomorrow morning I'll build new fire in OWB.  It's 1:10am here.  Thinking of throwing this computer machine in the garbage, before I find any more worth while projects!!!!

Good Night All!!

Bill G

[Ridgekid]

At least you figured it out! Maybe some shutoff valves to the HTX would be in order when your not operating the OWB?

[RSI]

Did you add the lower pump when you installed the OWB? Did it originally have the return go straight down where you teed into the upright pipe?

[Bill G]

Yes RSI, I added that horizontal pump to return,(Bot of prop boiler). 

It is gravity feeding through all zones. So, the 3 way valve will be tomorrow's event.  I spent a good bit of time looking on computer at various manufacturers and think maybe Erie will do.  ( also suggested after call to P&M). 

Did, of course shut valves to house, except DHW. 

If I went with 24v, would the t-stat transformer be enough to operate such a valve?  Electricity/electronics was never one of my strong suits.
All ears on this one.  And not getting one w/sweat fittings, as fear of over-heating. 

Found a lot of useful info on shop.solardirect.com. 

Bill

[RSI]

Was there a reason you didn't you just put the plate heat exchanger in series with the original loop?

If you don't want it in series, does the boiler have any more ports on it that aren't used? If there are I would have put a tee on the original return pipe and pumped direct into the boiler. Otherwise you could have just put a tee on both supply and return to the boiler but then you might still need a check valve.

[Bill G]

Mr. RSI,
 
My train of thought, before install, was if I put HX in series w/ existing plumbing, the propane boiler would just sit, waiting for a call for heat.
Since I wanted propane boiler for back-up, it would be on.  It has no low limit and would fire when call for heat.  So, I needed to keep it satisfied w/HW fr. HX.  I certainly didn't want it circling through any of the zones, so tee'd off top of boiler, to common return pipe.  Removed cap from opposite end of common return and that now goes up to HX.  Out HX to cont-on pump into bot . of propane boiler.  I put flow check off of tee, thinking, pos pressure from existing zone pumps would close it, so it can't return to tee, discharge off top of boiler.

This all works fine and dandy.  Flow check works and heats house and hot water "like a big dog!!!".  But, gravity or would you call it convective flow allows all zones to slowly heat.  The Mrs. ain't into that!!  There are flow checks in the returns of all zones, so it is not back-feeding.  The hot water is moving in the proper direction.  So, on order,is controllerand 3wy valve.  All t-stats and dom-hx are of course tied to the existing propane boiler.  It signals boiler when call for heat.  I, turned down aquastat so it don't fire if water is above 140deg. 

I'll tie into this common wire and it will tell 3-way to close off circulating route and go through zone calling.  Common feed coming up off of top of propane boiler will be normally closed  (no power).  But the circulating route will be open, so the prop. boiler is allways satisfied.  When t-stat calls, 3-way closes off circ. route and opens to common house feed.  End switch from 3 way carries on to prop. boiler, so it will fire, if necessary. 

I figured the HX would work in reverse, should the OWB go out, or we are away during winter.  It does exactly that, but you would have to be "Rockafellar" to buy all necessary propane to keep 240 gal a H2o warm!!!  Sooo....

Til' the controller and 3 way valve comes in, I'll run some fat off the beagles, and look forward to my hare hunting up-Maine!!!!

A BIG THANK_YOU!!!!! For bearing with the technically challenged!!!!!

I'll just close off the zone valves and use as is, if we go into the deep freeze!!

Bill G.

[RSI]

The way you have it plumbed there is no way to keep it from heating the OWB when the gas boiler fires. You should have just put a tee on both supply and return the way it was originally setup. That way the pump you added would keep the gas boiler hot. If you had an extra port on the boiler that you could feed into it would work even better.
Doing it this way you could set up a controller on the pipe from the OWB that would turn the pump off at say 140° and then back on at 40°. That way it would keep it above freezing but not pull heat otherwise.

[Bill G]

RSI,

I do see your pont on aqua stat controller for OWB.  Was thinking same thought.  Another iron in the fire.

Bill