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[Roger2561]

Hi all, I own a CB E-classic 1400.  My second year with it.  It's been running great.  However, I have a stupid question;  How much temp drop in water temp should I be reading as the water enters my home?  My underground piping is the CB product.  I've been told one of the best on the market (it better be for the price I paid for it).   

This is my story - I have the digital programmable type thermostats.  In the evening while I'm watching (more like sleeping) TV I keep the home at 70's degrees.  The stats are programmed to lower the home to 65 degrees when I go to bed.  About an hour before I wake in the morning they are programmed to get the home back to 70 degrees.  I ran these settings last year and it worked great.  This year, however, it seems that it's taking longer for the home to get back up to temp than it did last year.  This year it takes about an hour and a bit longer for the temp to reach the 70 degree level, for when I get out of bed the temps are still rising, where last year it seemed like it only took about 20 to 30 minutes to reach the desired temp.  I do not have any temperature gauges anywhere in the home to read the water temp coming in.  The OWB water high setpoint is 185 with a low set point of 175.  I have access to an IR thermometer where I work.  I'll see if the boss minds if I borrow it to read the temps coming into the home.  Oh, another piece of the puzzle - I had to remove and install the baseboard for the circulating hotwater for construction.  I believe I have bleed the system correctly.  Will trapped air cause this seemingly inefficent (I can't spell) heating?  Thanks in advance for the help.  Roger

[Scott7m]

Did you change your entire set up from forced air to base boards or what!  I'm confused

[Roger2561]

Did you change your entire set up from forced air to base boards or what!  I'm confused

Scott - I'm sorry I confused you - it's always been base board heat.  I just did a remodel to a couple of the rooms and the base board was in the way. 

[Scott7m]

Take some temp readings on the pex itself with the ur gun at the stove, then check it on the pex
Where it comes into the home, should give you some idea

Air could be the issue!  Damaged wet line could be as well

[victor6deep]

Probably air lock in the pump.

[Roger2561]

Scott - Victor6Deep - Thanks for the response.  Unfortunately I was unable to procure the IR thermometer for the evening.  I work with graduate and undergraduate students and when they are in need of it's use, they get to use it first.  The semester is quickly coming to a close and it's panic time for them.  I may have to wait for a couple of weeks before it's available from work or I may have to buy one.  I'll keep you posted on the outcome when I get a chance to use the thermometer.  Thanks for everything.  Roger

[willieG]

as it is not too cold out just yet, even if the underground lines were comprimised i would think there would still be (if the flow is 6 to 8 gpm) enough btu getting to the house to heat it

a few other things come to mind....

air lock in pump or in line

worn pump (low gpm)

partially plugged line (anywhere in the main feed or return line)

if zone valves are being used  perhaps one is not opening all the way ?

you mention construction...have you added square footage or new windows  or anything that would require more btu than you needed last year?

[Roger2561]

as it is not too cold out just yet, even if the underground lines were comprimised i would think there would still be (if the flow is 6 to 8 gpm) enough btu getting to the house to heat it

a few other things come to mind....

air lock in pump or in line

worn pump (low gpm)

partially plugged line (anywhere in the main feed or return line)

if zone valves are being used  perhaps one is not opening all the way ?

you mention construction...have you added square footage or new windows  or anything that would require more btu than you needed last year?

The pex entering the house as well as leaving the house are extremely hot.  I cannot touch them for more than a split second - them babies are HOT!  I have not added square footage - everything is the same since last year, only I have better insulation in the walls now.  I must add that when the house gets to temp, it stays warm without any problem.  it just seems slow to warm up after being allowed to cool for the daytime when I'm not home.   

[willieG]

The pex entering the house as well as leaving the house are extremely hot.  I cannot touch them for more than a split second - them babies are HOT!  I have not added square footage - everything is the same since last year, only I have better insulation in the walls now.  I must add that when the house gets to temp, it stays warm without any problem.  it just seems slow to warm up after being allowed to cool for the daytime when I'm not home.   
[/quote]

with both incoming and outgoing lines being about the same temp (not being able to hold on to them,if your zones were all caling for heat) i would guess your gpm is good.

turn up all thermostats to all zones so they are all requesting hot water...feel each  feed and return loop for each zone

feed line for zone is too hot to touch and return line is hot but not as hot as feed = working zone
feed line hot but not as hot as "working zone" and return is cooler = air lock
feed line is only warm and return cooler = bad thermostat or bad zone valve (no water entering loop)

last two could be the same..i guess I would try bleeding the loop for air first in either case but would consider  the thrermostat and or bad zone valve  also

[RSI]

Do your baseboard heaters have any louvers that can be closed or did they get dirt built up in the fins?

[husky 555]

I was having a similar issue with my home heating up slowly.  I just had my plumber in and he bled the lines on my inside oil boiler with h20 baseboard.  He said there was alittle air in my inside system.  I will keep an eye on it the next few days.

[boilerman]

I like Willies test method to check out each zone. Sounds like possible air lock or restricted flow somewhere. I doubt it is ground temp loss.
If you have a candy thermometer, you could draw a sample from your water site gauge on the E1400 and drop thermometer in for a reading.
Inside you could draw water from the drain bib in your supply line in front of your heat exchanger if installed like the cb drawings, for a temp reading.
Better yet...if you have their thermostatic valve installed as per their drawing, you could draw from the drain bib on the front supply side of the thermostatic valve.
You might want to check too, making sure the valve is opening fully and not restricting flow, turning some of the water back around to furnace directly at the valve and never getting full flow to your baseboards. With what you said about the lines entering and returning the house being too hot to touch, this may be the problem, as I'm thinking while typing.

[dwneast77]

If you have a thermostatic valve installed, I'm with Boilerman.  I'd check that first.  Seems I saw some comments on here last year that some of the thermostatic valves sent out had the wrong springs in them or something.

[Roger2561]

If I combine the trouble shooting ideas of Boilerman and Willieg, I should be able to narrow this thing down. 

Unfortunately, for me, when the plumber installed the pex to thermostatic valve, he did not install a drain bib before it.  The only place for me to access water in the owb is at the site gauge on the back of it.  Or, at the OWB drain bib in the back.  However, I do have a couple of places where I can draw water after the thermostatic valve.  How can I test that the thermostatic valve is working properly? 

RSI - Every Fall before heating season I clean all of the fins as well as make sure the louvers are open.  I learned that lesson the hard way a long time ago.

Thanks again for the help.

Roger   

[boilerman]

Roger, if you don't have a drain valve on each side of the valve, you have no way to purge all the air out of your supply and return line.
Owners manual instructs how to use domestic water pressure to purge back from front side of valve to push water/air back through supply side and through the pump to the Eclassic and then from the down side of valve to push water/air through the return side of the boiler. Needless to say, unplug your pump when purging and plug back in when finished. Since you had the system opened up this summer to install more baseboard, there is a good chance you have a partial air lock.  I would think you could grab the water line infront of the thermostatic valve by hand and on the back side of the thermostatic valve and possibly feel a water temp difference if valve is not opening fully.  If you had the drains on both sides of the valve, you could a washing machine hose as a jumper around the valve to purge or check system flow as well.
If you are drawing water from the OWF you should pull from the water level site gauge as this is where your water coming to your house is drawn from and will be considerably hotter than the sample you would draw from the bottom drain valve. Especially if you were pulling heat off indoor exchange and returning water with a 20 degree temp drop or more. There could be a 20 degree or more temp difference between the top water and the bottom water. I don't understand why other brands draw off the bottom, except if they are looking for more feed pressure to their pumps. CB seems to understand the hottest water rises to the top on both their Classics and Eclassics.