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[johnybcold]

I am noticing latley the water seems to have a problem getting hot for example this morning the fire was out water was at 163 I went out wood was Jamed up I loosened it and it was fine chamber temp has been at 400 it has been 30-40 minutes and it is still at 168 is there anythink I should check?

[Roger2561]

What I do when I lose the fire, I take the time to clean the firebox of all unburned fire wood, remove any ash buildup, make sure the air holes are clear of creosote, have good air flow, clear the reaction chamber of ash build up then I rekindle the fire.  Oh, I also shut down the thermostats in the house to prevent it from drawing anymore heat from the OWB before I rekindle the fire.  Does your reaction chamber temps reach over 1000 degrees F?  Make sure your primary and secondary solenoids are operating properly.  Roger

[johnybcold]

Is the reaction chamber the temp that flashes between water temp? I have been calling that the fire box temp most of the time it is around 300 -500 I never see1000

[Roger2561]

Is the reaction chamber the temp that flashes between water temp? I have been calling that the fire box temp most of the time it is around 300 -500 I never see1000

The water temp is the reading that shows for approx. 6 seconds, the reaction chamber temp is about 3 seconds long alternating between the 2 temp readings.  Make sure the probe that's sticking out of the upper right hand corner of the reaction chamber is clean (I take my gloved hand and carefully dust it off) and be careful not to bump it when you are removing the ashes.  It's the thermocouple that reads the reaction chamber temp and it can easily break.  Have you cleared the reaction chamber of ashes recently?  It may be obscuring the thermocouple so you're not getting a proper reading.  I clear my reaction chamber every Saturday morning when I check the air holes for creosote build up.  It only takes a few minutes to do this.  Also, did you get a hoe with yours?  I use it to reach to the far back wall of the reaction chamber to get as much of the ash out of there as I can without damaging the fire brick and watching for the probe.  Let me know what you find.

FYI - My reaction temps have reached as high as 1500 degrees.  If you're not used to seeing it that high, it's a bit unnerving.         

[johnybcold]

Well I guess I have a issue it never hits 1000 mid to lower hundreds, I clean the ash tray every weekend I do keep that sensor clean maybe there is a issue with a silonode, are you seeing that high number during high burn?  I don't see it in high burn often

[Roger2561]

Johnybcold:  This is my procedure I follow everyday;

1)  Gather load of fire wood in wheel barrow.
2)  Lift by-pass door handle.
3)  Wait 15 sec. before opening fire box door.
4)  If there is a lot of unburned fire wood, I remove it and place it where I can grab it to put back in when I'm done.
5)  Take poker and run it through the ash and coal using care not to dislodge the grates.
6)  Use hoe to scrape creosote chunks from walls again using care not to block the air holes on both sides and back of fire box.
7)  Using poker spread coals out evenly over fire box floor.
  Put unburned fire wood that was removed back into the firebox. 
9)  Load fire box to desired height with nice dry wood.
10)  Wait 15 seconds and then slowly lower the by-pass handle.  This will aid in keeping too much creosote from building up in the primary solenoid area.

I do the above procedures everytime I tend to it (usually about every 12 hours).  It looks like a lot of time but it takes me maybe 6 to 10 minutes from start to when I'm heading to house for a cup of coffee.

Once a month I perform the following:

1)  Once house has reached desire temp, I turn off the thermostats.  It prevents heat loss if the house is calling for a load.
2)  Gather up kindling, small hardwood pieces and fresh dry fire wood.
3)  Turn off Fire Star
4)  Lift handle of by-pass door.
5)  Wait 15 sec.
6)  Open fire ox door
7)  Remove any unburned fire wood and place in safe place.
  Using shovel remove hot coals to a safe holding container to use a bit later in rekindling the fire.
9)  Use wonder bar to scrape creosote build up from corners of fire box.  Pay close attention to the area in front by the door.
10)  Use pick, bent screwdriver, etc... whatever works for you to poke the air holes and make sure they a clear creosote.
11)  Open by-pass door and shovel out ash using care not to hit the thermocouple. 
12)  Use hoe to reach to the far back wall of the reaction chamber to bring whatever is left to remove the shovel.
11)  Go to back of OWB and remove panel to the right of the chimney.
12)  Remove wingnuts to gain access to heat exchanger
13)  I use a tool I made to scrape the length of it to remove any ash build up or dust deposits.
14)  Reach around to the chimney and remove the dust that has collected in front of the chimney.
15)  Remove back panel to chimney and scrape clean.
16)  Re assemble everything in reverse order and close all doors except the fire box door.
17)  Put hot coals back in fire box.  Add kindling.
18)  Turn on Fire Star
19)  Let kindling ignite before adding unburned pieces to it
20)  Let fire roar a bit to make sure it's essablished.
21)  Close by-pass door.

This should make a difference.  Good luck.

[Roger2561]

Well I guess I have a issue it never hits 1000 mid to lower hundreds, I clean the ash tray every weekend I do keep that sensor clean maybe there is a issue with a silonode, are you seeing that high number during high burn?  I don't see it in high burn often

When the temps in the reaction reach approx. 750 degrees, the fire star display shows it going into "high burn".  I believe this means that the secondary solenoid opens allowing air to pass through the heat tubes, acting like a blow torch thereby burning all of the particulates that otherwise would have escaped into the atmosphere.  But, the secondary solenoid wouldn't open until the reaction chamber temp hit around 750, I think.  Perhaps a call to your CB dealer is in order to help you troubleshoot the problem.  I believe somewhere on this forum someone has posted the procedure used to troubleshoot your solenoids to make sure they are faulty.       

[johnybcold]

Thx ya I have to do some trouble shooting it never gets that high problay why I go through a lot more wood then my buddy

[dwneast77]

I've not seen a 1400 to compare, but my 2300 has 3 solenoids.  One for primary air, one for secondary air and one with just a baffle over the blower to just slow air flow.  That one is supposed to be "closed" during regular burn mode but when in "high" burn mode (which occurs when water temp drops to 5 degrees below your set low water temp) it lifts the baffle to allow more air into the airbox and into the fire.  I've carefully opened my airbox up many times while the unit was running to make sure solenoids were functioning properly.

 That being said, there is one more thing you may need to check if your 1400 is set up similar to the 2300.  That is the primary air tube feeding into the firebox.  It used to be a major problem with my unit until I made a little design change.  Do the air tubes go straight through the back wall from the air box to the firebox/combustion chamber??  Do they have elbows facing up with the solenoids above them??  If so, I'd say to remove the elbow to the primary air tube (top tube).  Mine is set up for easy removal with a rubber boot and hose clamps.  Many times I've found that tube plugged right up solid with creosote.  Worth checking out.  If you are not getting good air flow to the primary fire you will not gassify and there will be an exceptional amount of smoke. 

Hope this helps.

[Roger2561]

I've not seen a 1400 to compare, but my 2300 has 3 solenoids.  One for primary air, one for secondary air and one with just a baffle over the blower to just slow air flow.  That one is supposed to be "closed" during regular burn mode but when in "high" burn mode (which occurs when water temp drops to 5 degrees below your set low water temp) it lifts the baffle to allow more air into the airbox and into the fire.  I've carefully opened my airbox up many times while the unit was running to make sure solenoids were functioning properly.

 That being said, there is one more thing you may need to check if your 1400 is set up similar to the 2300.  That is the primary air tube feeding into the firebox.  It used to be a major problem with my unit until I made a little design change.  Do the air tubes go straight through the back wall from the air box to the firebox/combustion chamber??  Do they have elbows facing up with the solenoids above them??  If so, I'd say to remove the elbow to the primary air tube (top tube).  Mine is set up for easy removal with a rubber boot and hose clamps.  Many times I've found that tube plugged right up solid with creosote.  Worth checking out.  If you are not getting good air flow to the primary fire you will not gassify and there will be an exceptional amount of smoke. 

Hope this helps.

The 1400's are similar but there are differences between the 2.  The 1400's have only 2 solenoids.  One for the primary to allow air through the air holes in the fire box to get the fire going after idle.  The second is the secondary burn for the reaction chamber.  However, the set up is similar in the sense that they do have an elbow that turns upward with the solenoids above them.  The flap opens or closes to whatever the controller tells it it needs to do.  It appears that johnybcold is aware of the creosote build up problem in these areas, as I am.  That's why I mentioned in an earlier post to make sure he inspects them at once a month.  And, you are right, with the reaction chamber temp not reaching above 500 it will not gassify and lots of smoke will be evident at the chimney.  I know with mine that as soon as it hits the 750 degree mark, after 30 seconds or so, the smoke stops as the temperature continues to climb.  I'm wondering if he's having a solenoid problem or a problem with his controller.  Plus, it almost sounds to me like he's not getting enough air into the fire box through the air holes to keep the fire going hot enough to allow it to hit the 750 degree mark.  I can hear the solenoids activate on mine.  They clank (technical term) loud enough that there is no question they are operating.  It is imperative that those holes are clear of creosote build up.  I take a wire and bent screwdriver to poke mine clean every Saturday morning when I service mine and clear the reaction chamber of ashes.  I know that the CB 1450's have been upgraded where there are removable panels in the corners to clean those areas.  I asked my CB dealer if there was an upgrade kit available where I can do that to my CB 1400 (it a pain in the arse to clean those areas) and the answer is no, not yet.  Roger

[johnybcold]

I rushed home but it is too dark to mess with it, I do keep it pretty clean my routine is a lot like yours Rodger the thing was not cheap so wether it needs to be clean or not I clean it, but I have never cleaned the soilinodes, I only burn pine so they might be dirty, sounds like you take it completely off?

[Roger2561]

I rushed home but it is too dark to mess with it, I do keep it pretty clean my routine is a lot like yours Rodger the thing was not cheap so wether it needs to be clean or not I clean it, but I have never cleaned the soilinodes, I only burn pine so they might be dirty, sounds like you take it completely off?

Johnybcold - if you're refering to the solenoids, yes, I remove them for inspection and cleaning if necessary.  They are simple to remove.  It takes a 1/4 inch nut driver to loosen the pipe clamp.  Unplug the leads from the solenoid.  Remember which one goes where.  It may come out a bit hard at first.  You may have to twist it to get it come out.  Just be careful not to rough it up too much. That may lead to damage.  Look inside the plastic elbow.  You may or may not find some creosote built up in it.  If you do I use a large screw driver to get it out.  Once you have that cleaned to your satisfaction, look inside the hole from which it was removed.  I have a feeling your find creosote build up in there too.  Find a tool (I use a long handled screw driver) to remove as much as the creosote as you can.  Once it's clean to your satisfaction, reassemble everything and plug the leads back on the terminals.  The secondary shouldn't have much creosote in at all.  I check mine monthly and the secondary one has never had any creosote in it.  Once everything is back together, and before you get a fire going again, turn on the fire star.  With the fire box door open you should see a switch (mine looks like a piece of wire sticking out) in the lower left corner outside of the fire box.  Push it in.  This will activate the primary solenoid.  You should be able to feel air coming from the air holes by removing a glove and running your hand in front of them.  It may be subtle but you should feel some air coming from them.  If you do not feel any air from them, then you'll need to clean the holes.  They may be partially blocked or fully blocked.  I had this problem this past January when I kept loosing the fire before I figured out what was going on.  It took a while but I got them clean.  A lot of what I've learned has been through trial and error.  Let me know how you make out.  I have a feeling creosote may be your problem.   

[boilerman]

CB owners manual that came with my E2400 now recommends taking that top primary solenoid and elbow off as described, at the end of each heating season for cleaning.
I too would guess that you will find blockage in the elbow and/or tube that is causing your reduced airflow.
Wow Roger, you go way over and beyond any cleaning I have done with mine over the last 2 years.
I burn down to mostly coals daily, use the poker rod through the coals, scrape the side walls and corners with a my hoe and reload on a daily basis.
Shovel the ash out of my reaction chamber once every 3-4 weeks. (when ash level is about half full)
Pull the ash out from behind the chimney tee once every 2 months.
Year end shut down, shovel out everything, use poker rod inside rear air exchanger, shop vac out everything, use a wire and clean out side air holes and back into firebox air channels, shop vac over each hole, then clean the above mentioned primary and secondary solenoid intakes. Throw a bucket over the chimney and call it a heating season.
Furnace still working perfectly now into my 3rd heating season!

[Roger2561]

boilerman,  Because it was a such a huge investment, I am not taking any chances with it.  Am I being a bit anal and a bit overboard when it comes to keeping it clean?  Perhaps.  But, I need to be sure this thing will last a long time.  I do not have any disposable income to fix it if came down to negligence. 

My manual does not mention anything about removing the solenoids for cleaning.  I did that on my own mainly out of curiosity.  I'm glad I did however.  When I removed the primary solenoid the first time last heating season, maybe in Dec., I couldn't believe the creosote build up in there.  It must have been nearly 2/3 full of the stuff.  So, now I check them once a month.  When it comes to the monthly cleaning I do, my manual says to do it periodically, whatever that means, so I decided that once a month was sufficient. 

At the year end cleaning another thing I do is remove the refractory panel on the floor of the fire box, the fire brick lining the fusion chamber, the rope holding everything together and I then remove the fusion chamber.  I inspect and clean all the surfaces of the fusion chamber.  I apply a coat of oil to to any exposed surfaces to protect from rust during the summer, especially when it gets humid.  Once that's down I reassemble everything.  Plus, anything that doesn't have a nice coat of liquid creosote on it in the fire box, I apply oil.  Again, to protect the metal surfaces from rust.   Roger

[Jack72]

Hello

Johnny b.     

       mine is not much different than yours and Rogers      But the only time I have lost my fire is when i had it my first year.  I believe one of my problems was I wasn't taking the rod and running it up next to the charge tube and making sure one side is clear so it gets air so you cant  get those high reaction temps if it cant get good air from the charge tube                 also you'll have a hard time reaching those high temps if your wood is wetter than 12 percent                 also your run times what is your water differential I think you need at least a 10 degree climb to reach those temps     I do have two solenoids also which I also take off and clean every month    Your burning a lot of pine I bet you have a lot of build up inside those elbows.     
Burning a lot of full rounds instead of split doesn't give you much of a coal bed either    You need a good established coal bed before you see high rec temps

On my controller in the set up mode.    It's number 7          I can run a diagnostic check where it runs everything for about a minute it opens both solenoids and runs fan you can open your door to watch them work   I don't know if you and roger have this feature. But I believe you do   I think we have the same firestar controller    Look in your Manual  on set mode functions.    This just my two cents seems to work for me so far               hope this helps.        Jack