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[victor6deep]

My bill increased with outdoor wood boiler. In all honestly I think these owb save very little money if you add all the time and labor on top of everything else. Do I enjoy mine yes but did I enjoy laying around and letting the propane do it own thing? Its a wash imo.

[willieG]

My bill increased with outdoor wood boiler. In all honestly I think these owb save very little money if you add all the time and labor on top of everything else. Do I enjoy mine yes but did I enjoy laying around and letting the propane do it own thing? Its a wash imo.

i tend to agree  in a lot of cases...unless your heat bill is so high that the payback for a stove installed can't be recouped in about 4 or 5 years it may not be the right thing to do. you might do better paying out the cost of a professionaly installed OWB in added insualtion and new windows to save energy..this would likley increase the resale value of your home more than an OWB
perhaps one of the dealers here could give a ballpark figure of a new gasser for say 3000 square feet of home.. an underground line of say 100 feet... heat exchanger for furnace...plate exchanger for domestic water  and the cost of delivery and al lassociated plumbing and installation of such..then folks coud decide how much they could save by doing their own install or having the dealer do the whole "turn key" operation and weigh that cost with the cost of heating now..then they could decide if it is right for them. i do believe these things are not for everyone..they take time and dedication and some of us do not have that time or the dedication it will take to look after one.

yes they save paying the fuel man.. but how much do you have to save to feel good about all the time you have to spend to save that money...big decisons need to be made before jumping in
I have a feeling the averager life span of these stoves may be 12 to 15 years (just a guess on my part)..if you have 15,000 invested in all the parts and labor and the stove that would work out to 1000 bucks a year so for your stove...how much are you really saving

some will save lots..some not so much? you can bet fuel will continue to rise but at todays dollars your saving may not be as  high as you think

[victor6deep]

I think I did the opposite since I added windows etc to make my home very efficient. I wish I would've bought a ridgewood stove for lots cheaper and then It would've been worth it for me. I have about 9 grand into everything and don't really use much wood so it will take a long time to pay for itself.

[Scott7m]

I've heard it all now..   If folks wasn't saving money, why would they want to do all of this? 

How about some real numbers.  I heated my home with propane one winter, spent $2900.  Still had electric bills 140-150.   So 7 months of hot water. There is another $250.  So over propane my stove saved me $3150 per winter over propane, those were 2006-2007 propane prices.  Went my last winter and electric and for the same time period spent around $3200.  Electric here has went up 17% since then. 

So $3200 x 1.17 = $3744 per winter over electric.    Electric rates here are set to increase an estimated 17% per year over the next 3 years.  So, $3744 x 1.51 = $5653. That is how much the stove will be saving me over electric per year by 2016.  Those increases are supposedly already passed and going to take place. 

So lets pretend. Lets pretend that electric rates are going to stay at that rate for the next 20 years, which is near impossible.  20 x 5653 = 113,060

Tell me one other thing that you can spend 8-10k dollars on and potentially save you 110,000 dollars on over 20 years? 

Now there are many variables, wood cost, in my situation it's free.  I can cut a winters worth of wood in 2-3 days, or simply get free slabs.  Other variables are operating costs of running the stove!?  It's like anything else, how well you take care of it will determine that. 

So the potential for huge savings is very real. 

My situation is electric, a high rat I know. However I know folks burning 1500-2000 gallon of kerosene per winter at 4 bucks a gallon? 

If I only saved 100-150 bucks per month on my stove over electric, I'd close my business and sell my stove tomorrow

[Scott7m]

Now one thing I didn't include was my remaining electric bill..  Which has typically been 80-95 dollars most of the time, since adding an owb. Still though, the savings are huge, comfort level amazing compared to before.  That number could be $135-$150 after the scheduled increases


Victor, if you seriously think it's a wash, why go through all the labor involved?  I wouldn't that's for sure

Some folks justify this by saying there "sticking it to the man" which only makes me chuckle, but the real thing is trying to save money. 

Like Willie says there not for everyone, but only saving $1000 bucks a year just doesn't make sense to me, most folks i install for there heating bills go from 400 to $60-70 or from $6-700 down to $100.  So the savings are real, and most customers I deal with recoup there investment in under 3 winters

[willieG]

Scott i agree 100 percent, some folks savings can be amazing, but there are other folks that may get caught up in the wonder of "free heat". there are many people out there that live in a 16 or 1800 square foot home that is well insulated and  maybe only pay 1000 to 1200 a year for heat ..personally when i built my stove my heat bill for the previous years was only around 1500 plus electric hot water and my stove was actually bildt on a dare (or i likley would never have made it) now at that time a store bought stove was about 4000 so it would have still been about three year payback after the plumbing end of things)

now if my heat bill with my old stove was 2500 a year and a new gasser would cost me 11or 12 grand (im guessing you could quote the price in canadian dollars if you wish)  plus say 200 feet of your best 5 wrap (i will guess 1200 bucks) then valves..heat exchangers..elbows..ect..and a plate exchanger..another 600 and labor if  i couldn't do any of this my self (1 day at 30 bucks an hour) 250 bucks more for a total of around 14 or 15 grand all in , turn key...so it would take about (without counting fuel increases) 6 years to pay back the cost of the stove and installation...now if we said the stoves average life was 12 years we may save enough to buy another stove at the end of the current stoves life. so we have cut and hauled and split wood for 12 years to break even..for some folks that might not be a fair trade. for those folks spending the intitial cost of that 15,000 investment might think spending half on new windows and insulation may  be a better option? now you, I and many many others that have high energy bills may well benifit from these stoves...all i am saying is before someone goes out and takes on that much debt they may want to consider all other options and costs first.
My sons propane bill last year was 1100 dollars, if i was not able to build him a stove and install it my self..i doubt that he would have ever considered laying out 10 or 15 thousand dollars to save 1200 a year.

these stoves do have thier place but you must also realize there are places they just don't make sense adn that is all i was pointing out. some thought should go into making such a lrage decision that will not only hit yoru pocket book but will tie you to either the expense of buying wood or the time deidicated to cutting, hauling, stacking, and feeding the thing (i know some of the folks are like me and possable you and enjoy going out and getting wood, but there are others who would sooner lay on teh couch and watch american idol!

[Scott7m]

Yea.  All situations are different.  My parents have a 1400sq ft home, very well insulted, geothermal unit, winter electric bills still average probably $235.  Not horrible, by any means.  I'm quit sure I could get there bill down to $70-$80 for the 7 heating months,  which to me is not much savings, around $155/mo or $1085 bucks per year. 

However he also has a garage, and my mom has a 1200 square foot sewing room over the garage, it's currently heated with a pellet stove, I would estimate they burn 3-4 tons of pellets per year.  So lets say there is potentially another $1000. 

He has been entertaining getting an empyre pro 200 to do all of it, lets say he had $12,000 in the installation.  2085 savings per year before wood costs, which to him is free or only the cost of fuel.  So lets say 12,000/2085.  5.75 winters to recover initial investment, of course there will likely be up keep costs in there so 6 years.   

So as you can see in there case, it's justifiable, but not overly impressive.  Think about how many purchases folks make though that never pay back a cent?  It's a lot.  If they only had the home, of course we wouldn't be looking at nearly as an expensive unit.  Plus we all know that there are many more affordable units currently than a phase 2 gasser.  If they went with let's say a regular furnace and different brand the total investment may only be 7,000, which pay back would be around 3 winters.

[bajonesy77]

I know this thread is all about the electrical savings and gas/oil $$$$, but if my house was to burn down because of my indoor stove and someone was to get hurt or lose everything.....theres no price on that so its also a piece of mind/saftey gain. I have a friend who will be getting one soon who also heats with wood/heat pump but his kids are having breathing problems in the winter from smoke so to get that away from the house how much would you spend. There is more to it than just a bottom line I think.

[Scott7m]

I know this thread is all about the electrical savings and gas/oil $$$$, but if my house was to burn down because of my indoor stove and someone was to get hurt or lose everything.....theres no price on that so its also a piece of mind/saftey gain. I have a friend who will be getting one soon who also heats with wood/heat pump but his kids are having breathing problems in the winter from smoke so to get that away from the house how much would you spend. There is more to it than just a bottom line I think.

Very true, and comfort as well!!! 

[Pit Crew]

Would you have your house at 72-74 degrees if heating with OIL,GAS,PROPANE OR ELECTRIC?  That would be a NO for most of us. The cost recovery time would be much quicker  it you figured what it would cost you keeping your house as warm as you do now. And how many of you heat your garage,shop,barn etc. with your OWB that you couldnt even think of doing before? Plus, aint it fun to cut wood.LOL

[walkerdogman85]

I feel that I am saving as the highest bill before I moved in was 450 and now it's down to as low as 87 usually 100. +\-! Either way if you build a new house and put in electric, fuel oil etc they will always cost you. I am not sure show to figure how long it will take to recover cost (9600.00)? But I enjoy it and like Scott said its comfortable or seems to be better than electric heat

[dolphin13]

This is my first year burning and have enjoyed the whole experience.I live in a wooded area that makes it very convient for cutting wood within literally yards of my home.I added a 1000 sq. ft. shop to my heating load this winter,I only keep the shop at 45 degree unless I am in there like most of the weekend and evenings I have the home at 72 degree up from 70 in previous years.My home is 11 years old very well insulated w/ excellent windows (lots of them).I had what I would consider a very efficient heating system for my avg. ambient winter temp. My heat pump would operate at temps. 40 degree and above below that my gas furnace would cut in.I have kept very accurate records of my savings so I could share the info w/ friends.My area has had a very similiar winter compared to last year so I compared this years vs. last.My electrical savings are pushing 40% ($80.00 x 5mo.=$400.00) Propane approx. 400 gal. @ $3.50=$1400.00.Approx. $2000.00 = 10 year payback.
2 degree warmer house = happy wife.....1000sq. ft. shop warm as need be but never below 45 to keep essentials from freezing=happy me.With me I would do it again.Just my 2 cents   

[jrider]

2.5 years ago I moved into a new (to me house).  It's 34 years old, fairly well insulated, 3,000 square feet, has a fireplace, and oil for heat.  I burned a little over 5 cords of wood that first winter in the fireplace just trying to keep the heater from kicking on so often.  Now, I know that's not efficient at all but I sell 60-75 cords of wood a year so throwing 5 cords in there really wasn't a big deal to me.  We kept the heat at 60 at night and 66 during the day.  The living room and kitchen were always nice and toasty with a fire going but I was a slave to it when I was home.  I weighed a lot of options and decided to put out the most money up front and bought a P&M Opt. 250.  I spent $2000 on oil that first year and zero since.  I now keep my house at 66 at night (bedroom window open though so I can actually sleep) and 72-74 during the day.  With the rising cost of oil, I figured I would be spending at least $3500 a year on oil to keep the house warm.  And now I have a place to get rid of all the uglies/partial rotten/pine from my wood operation.  Before that, I had a hard time getting rid of that stuff.  With all of the money invested, including the unit, underground pex, concrete slab, and installation(since I'm not the handiest guy in the world), the stove will pay itself off in 3.5 years max. 

[oldchenowth]

I realize this thread is quite long, but I have another suggestion to check.  An old electrician friend of mine said to get rid of all the little transformers you can and watch the usuage plummet.  Cell phone, modem, clock, computer, video game, chargers , printers, rechargeable drills, etc.  All that crap has those little transformers, he said those things are HUGE HOGS.  I am never home to get the family to unplug so my rates are still high, but mom unplugged all her stuff and has seen regular drop of at least 25% in the last four months she was diligent about use.  It may be some pumps, but I think it may be the "other" stuff contributing to high rates not necessarily the owb.  I have not seen a bill less than $180 ever.  But it is all the idiots leaving every thing on all the time that is my problem.  My owb is the most efficient thing in my household.

[Scott7m]

This is my first year burning and have enjoyed the whole experience.I live in a wooded area that makes it very convient for cutting wood within literally yards of my home.I added a 1000 sq. ft. shop to my heating load this winter,I only keep the shop at 45 degree unless I am in there like most of the weekend and evenings I have the home at 72 degree up from 70 in previous years.My home is 11 years old very well insulated w/ excellent windows (lots of them).I had what I would consider a very efficient heating system for my avg. ambient winter temp. My heat pump would operate at temps. 40 degree and above below that my gas furnace would cut in.I have kept very accurate records of my savings so I could share the info w/ friends.My area has had a very similiar winter compared to last year so I compared this years vs. last.My electrical savings are pushing 40% ($80.00 x 5mo.=$400.00) Propane approx. 400 gal. @ $3.50=$1400.00.Approx. $2000.00 = 10 year payback.
2 degree warmer house = happy wife.....1000sq. ft. shop warm as need be but never below 45 to keep essentials from freezing=happy me.With me I would do it again.Just my 2 cents   

You spent 20,000 on your install???