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[willmcgraw78807]

i have a cl 4030, and it has been in operation for 2 years. i live in southern va with mild to mid winters. it is hooked up to my existing oil fired boiler, and the oil fired one is shut off so water is just heated with wood furnace. the problem i have is that i fill it up at  night or in the morning, and before i wake up or get home the water temp has dropped below 150 degrees and is rerouted back to the stove via the thermostatic valve and my house is freezing. it heats a 1600 sq ft well insulated brick home. i have just about had enough!!! im sick of having a cold house and when i get there to put wood in it it takes hours for the house to heat back up. i know some might suggest that i set the oil fired furnace to come on to heat the water once the stove gets to low but i don't feel like i should have too as i have invested thuasands in this @#$#@#$#@##$$# outdoor wood stove!! and the whole purpose of it is so i wont have to buy fuel oil. my father has a cl 5036 and heats a 3600 sq ft home via the air handler radiator no problem and fills it up twice a day. my house is half the size and per cb the 4030 is more than enough. the options i have thought of are take the thermostatic valve of so it doesnt get kicked back, or to switch to the airhandler radiator. another thing i thought off was maybe its a problem with the floor radiators because once the house is satisfied all that water sits in the house and slowly cools untill the house calls for more heat and then all of that water is pumped back to the stove and mabe overwhelms it. and with the air handler radiator its hot all the time continualy circulating. please any suggetions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Scott7m]

"my opinion is"

The thermostatic valve is to protect the boiler, when it's full of fuel and, so that moisture in the wood goes out the stack instead of sticking to the walls and running down causing issues

But your water cools down after your wood is gone, so there is no real moisture to worry about, if your situation and system has a good return temp when it's operating normally I would get rid of that valve and be happy, 150 is plenty enough to make heat   

[johnybcold]

I have a CB feed into a oil boiler I do not have that valve, if I understand you summery correctly the boiler is at 150 in the morning? Is that because it is out of wood? If so what are your settings? My e1400 lasts all night heating a 3200 sqft home. I think you might just be able to swap the thermostat in the valve to a higher one from autozone.

[Scott7m]

I have a CB feed into a oil boiler I do not have that valve, if I understand you summery correctly the boiler is at 150 in the morning? Is that because it is out of wood? If so what are your settings? My e1400 lasts all night heating a 3200 sqft home. I think you might just be able to swap the thermostat in the valve to a higher one from autozone.

I think he's just running out of wood, a higher temp on his valve would cut his heat off that much sooner

I think that's his situation anyway

[Jack72]

i have a cl 4030, and it has been in operation for 2 years. i live in southern va with mild to mid winters. it is hooked up to my existing oil fired boiler, and the oil fired one is shut off so water is just heated with wood furnace. the problem i have is that i fill it up at  night or in the morning, and before i wake up or get home the water temp has dropped below 150 degrees and is rerouted back to the stove via the thermostatic valve and my house is freezing. it heats a 1600 sq ft well insulated brick home. i have just about had enough!!! im sick of having a cold house and when i get there to put wood in it it takes hours for the house to heat back up. i know some might suggest that i set the oil fired furnace to come on to heat the water once the stove gets to low but i don't feel like i should have too as i have invested thuasands in this @#$#@#$#@##$$# outdoor wood stove!! and the whole purpose of it is so i wont have to buy fuel oil. my father has a cl 5036 and heats a 3600 sq ft home via the air handler radiator no problem and fills it up twice a day. my house is half the size and per cb the 4030 is more than enough. the options i have thought of are take the thermostatic valve of so it doesnt get kicked back, or to switch to the airhandler radiator. another thing i thought off was maybe its a problem with the floor radiators because once the house is satisfied all that water sits in the house and slowly cools untill the house calls for more heat and then all of that water is pumped back to the stove and mabe overwhelms it. and with the air handler radiator its hot all the time continualy circulating. please any suggetions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Jack72]

i have a cl 4030, and it has been in operation for 2 years. i live in southern va with mild to mid winters. it is hooked up to my existing oil fired boiler, and the oil fired one is shut off so water is just heated with wood furnace. the problem i have is that i fill it up at  night or in the morning, and before i wake up or get home the water temp has dropped below 150 degrees and is rerouted back to the stove via the thermostatic valve and my house is freezing. it heats a 1600 sq ft well insulated brick home. i have just about had enough!!! im sick of having a cold house and when i get there to put wood in it it takes hours for the house to heat back up. i know some might suggest that i set the oil fired furnace to come on to heat the water once the stove gets to low but i don't feel like i should have too as i have invested thuasands in this @#$#@#$#@##$$# outdoor wood stove!! and the whole purpose of it is so i wont have to buy fuel oil. my father has a cl 5036 and heats a 3600 sq ft home via the air handler radiator no problem and fills it up twice a day. my house is half the size and per cb the 4030 is more than enough. the options i have thought of are take the thermostatic valve of so it doesnt get kicked back, or to switch to the airhandler radiator. another thing i thought off was maybe its a problem with the floor radiators because once the house is satisfied all that water sits in the house and slowly cools untill the house calls for more heat and then all of that water is pumped back to the stove and mabe overwhelms it. and with the air handler radiator its hot all the time continualy circulating. please any suggetions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Will

    Your frustrations are very understandable after dropping that much cash.        you are burning good hardwood right such as oak     I don't know if you are burning the same type as the father

But I know when I burn mixed such as maple /oak my burn times are considerable lower than straight hedge or oak .i burn straight oak or hedge  on the colder days working 12 hour days I know when I come home it will still be good and not out.           

     I'm not as much familiar with the classics as the e classics but I wonder if your damper is working properly as opening and closing properly its not stuck open or something is it? Being new you never know you could of have a part failed or never worked in the first place I could be partial wrong on some of my statements but just trying to help you   You said this is your second year how did it perform the first year?
     Jack

[johnybcold]

Are your reaction chamber temps low? I find when I have the burst set to run more often I use more wood( I burn pine) and if I load large logs without a good bed of coal it does eventually go out during the night.

[Scott7m]

The classic don't pulse and stuff like that, it's just a normal boiler.  Hoping he can come back to clarify a few things

[boilerman]

The CL4030 is CB's smallest traditional size OWF. Considerably smaller than a E1400 or 1450 gasser model.
Like Scott said, more info would be good.
willmcgraw78807 says water temps is 150 or lower in the morning...If OWF is out of wood, that is going to happen.
If that's the case, something is drawing the heat off the water and ultimately burning up the wood load.
It has a small firebox, like the Hardy and a few others out there. They heat well from what I hear, but you have to keep wood in them.
The OWF itself is a good design and foam insulated. Look forward to hearing more system info.

[loneryder]

"my opinion is"

The thermostatic valve is to protect the boiler, when it's full of fuel and, so that moisture in the wood goes out the stack instead of sticking to the walls and running down causing issues

But your water cools down after your wood is gone, so there is no real moisture to worry about, if your situation and system has a good return temp when it's operating normally I would get rid of that valve and be happy, 150 is plenty enough to make heat   

Scott.  What do you mean if your water cools down after the wood is gone, there is no moisture?  When i leave town for a few days, I switch to heat pump which still circulates the water thru the house but not the heat exchanger in the furnace.  When I get home the temp is below 150 and the wood is gone but usually is enough coals to get a fire going again.  I haven't noticed any moisture but have worried about it.

[Scott7m]

i'll try to explain why thermostatic valves are used in the first place..........

manufacturers know that only a few of there dealers truly size the install correctly as there is no formal training, most simply do this on the side.  what dealers they do have that do a correct install, still cant predict what there customers may add to there sytem once they leave or years down the road.  So with that being said, empyre and cb and maybe more require some form of boiler protection to protect the boiler from over load and potentially incorrect installs

For example, i show up, design a system to have proper flow and return temps, i leave and the customer decides i'm an idiot and adjusts his temps down to 160 instead of 180, at which i would have designed the install around.  OR, perhaps i leave and the customer builds on an addition or adds a hot tub, when folks start adding things to exsisting loops it throws the calculations out of whack and can lead to return temps being to low and causing the firebox to sweat inside

now, where does the "sweat" come from?  its inside the wood, if you throw in 100 pounds of wood with 30% moisture, thats 30 pounds of water.  If you have a cold spot, some of that moisture can build up there and drip into the ashes.   

in this situation it seems apparent that this customers water temp only drops below 150 when his fire is nearly out or burned down to a bed of coals, at that point there is no moisture left in the wood to possibly build up and cause it to sweat, i hope this clarifies what i meant

[Biga1988]

I also have a 4030. Been heating water and 2100 sq ft home with it for 2 seasons in central ohio. I had the same problem 2 times on very cold nights (10 degrees or lower). What ive done since has seemed to work. On nights i know are going to be very cold i remove some ashes and coals so i can load with more wood. I also only burn ash, oak, or walnut on those nights. I havent had a problem since. Hope this helps.

[muffin]

Simple thought, but have you checked you system efficiency.  You could have a serious heat loss issue somewhere like in your main lines.  This would constantly bleed your system and consume your wood.  Use an IR gun to check your lines when nothing is on and see if you are getting drops.  You should only see a couple degrees from where it enters your house to where it leaves and the same from the boiler to the house.  The thermostatic valve is not going to pull heat out of the system.  Worse case it could be malfunctioning and depriving your house, but then you would burn even less wood.

[Scott7m]

Simple thought, but have you checked you system efficiency.  You could have a serious heat loss issue somewhere like in your main lines.  This would constantly bleed your system and consume your wood.  Use an IR gun to check your lines when nothing is on and see if you are getting drops.  You should only see a couple degrees from where it enters your house to where it leaves and the same from the boiler to the house.  The thermostatic valve is not going to pull heat out of the system.  Worse case it could be malfunctioning and depriving your house, but then you would burn even less wood.

the thing i think thats bothering him is that once the water gets to 150, hed like to be able to heat for another hour or two.  and the thermostatic valve wont allow that to happen, of course his water temp would be even lower when he went to fill, but he could survive then and be happy.  it would be much different if it were 150 and he still had some wood left

[loneryder]

i'll try to explain why thermostatic valves are used in the first place..........

manufacturers know that only a few of there dealers truly size the install correctly as there is no formal training, most simply do this on the side.  what dealers they do have that do a correct install, still cant predict what there customers may add to there sytem once they leave or years down the road.  So with that being said, empyre and cb and maybe more require some form of boiler protection to protect the boiler from over load and potentially incorrect installs

For example, i show up, design a system to have proper flow and return temps, i leave and the customer decides i'm an idiot and adjusts his temps down to 160 instead of 180, at which i would have designed the install around.  OR, perhaps i leave and the customer builds on an addition or adds a hot tub, when folks start adding things to exsisting loops it throws the calculations out of whack and can lead to return temps being to low and causing the firebox to sweat inside

now, where does the "sweat" come from?  its inside the wood, if you throw in 100 pounds of wood with 30% moisture, thats 30 pounds of water.  If you have a cold spot, some of that moisture can build up there and drip into the ashes.   

in this situation it seems apparent that this customers water temp only drops below 150 when his fire is nearly out or burned down to a bed of coals, at that point there is no moisture left in the wood to possibly build up and cause it to sweat, i hope this clarifies what i meant

Thanks Scott. Moisture shows up when cool water in the jacket meets up with a hot fire in the box??  My dealer left the thermostatic valve CB provides out but he stressed keeping the water temp up.  I have an electronic thermostatic valve that allows hot water to the furnace xchanger when the furnace calls for heat on the Emerg heat setting on the  house Thermostat.  If the temp goes below 140 I think, the electric heat takes over.  If I switch the Thermostat to heat pump, it doesn't allow boiler water into the furnace.  This was designed this way for when I am away from home.  Is there a known temp at which condensation starts to form?? Thanks again.