Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Username: Password:
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5

Author Topic: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?  (Read 28673 times)

Scott7m

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3740
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: E Series
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2013, 06:57:32 PM »

snip

yes i will agree they make some nice looking and efficient indoor wood stoves but they don't make one for me!


They don't make one for me either.....  Undoubtedly they are good stoves.  But if I had $40K to stick in a furnace, I'd put geothermal in, not ever have to cut wood again, and still have 20 grand in my pocket.   ;D

I upgrade many geothermal units to wood boilers each year...  My parents have geothermal and there freezing to death lol
Logged
Dealer for:  Heatmaster, Empyre, Earth, Ridgewood, and Woodmaster outdoor furnaces
Furnace Parts Dealer
Pelican water treatment systems
606-316-9697

MattyNH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1284
  • OWF Brand: Crown Royal former Aqua-Therm
  • OWF Model: 7300E ; S-275
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2013, 07:03:16 PM »


Matty,
You don't need to believe it.  Talk to any Garn owner and see what they have to say or better yet go see one operate.  Fact is their emissions are already lower than the proposed EPA 3 limits.  Don't own one myself but if I had the bucks it would be no contest.
Why arnt the Garns listed on the EPA list for a clean hydronic burner? If your fact is true..Why hasn't any brand listed on this forum use that technology?? Don't know any Garn owners
Logged
Crown Royal 7300E (2021)
Aqua-Therm S-275 (2006)
Jonsered 2188
Jonsered 2165
Jonsered 2050
Timberwolf- TWP1 5.5 Honda 25in wood splitter
American CLS- AM48HH 8 Honda 48in wood splitter
Kubota L3800DT
Lake Winnipesaukee New Hampshire

XJCraver

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • OWF Brand: Empyre
  • OWF Model: CWP 250
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2013, 07:04:52 PM »

snip

yes i will agree they make some nice looking and efficient indoor wood stoves but they don't make one for me!


They don't make one for me either.....  Undoubtedly they are good stoves.  But if I had $40K to stick in a furnace, I'd put geothermal in, not ever have to cut wood again, and still have 20 grand in my pocket.   ;D

I upgrade many geothermal units to wood boilers each year...  My parents have geothermal and there freezing to death lol


Yeah, I just heard that from someone else.  Weird, because I've built 3 houses that have geo, and know a few other guys with retrofits to new-ish homes, and they all love them. 

They're just soooooooo dang expensive.  The bid for my house was half-again what a boiler is gonna' cost me.
Logged

Scott7m

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3740
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: E Series
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2013, 07:07:06 PM »

Yep, the air just doesnt feel warm is the complaints I hear from geo folks

They were really big here in the late 90's but have kinda slowed down
Logged
Dealer for:  Heatmaster, Empyre, Earth, Ridgewood, and Woodmaster outdoor furnaces
Furnace Parts Dealer
Pelican water treatment systems
606-316-9697

Scott7m

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3740
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: E Series
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2013, 07:10:15 PM »

 Matty, there an indoor unit, no need to do EPA testing

Wy does others not do it?  They do, there are endless numbers of folks who have European style boilers with mass storage.

Why do most companies such as profab, central and others not push them?  who has time to babysit there stove for 2 hours per day??  Not me, they are a batch burn unit, it's either on or off....  It doesn't cycle so if you want to store 1 million btu, you gotta set there and cram 1 million btu of wood into it for a couple hours.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 10:09:11 PM by Scott7m »
Logged
Dealer for:  Heatmaster, Empyre, Earth, Ridgewood, and Woodmaster outdoor furnaces
Furnace Parts Dealer
Pelican water treatment systems
606-316-9697

martyinmi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 541
  • OWF Brand: Portage and Main
  • OWF Model: Optimizer 250
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2013, 08:55:23 PM »

The Garn 1500 and the 2000 were tested last year at one of the EPA's testing facilities, I believe, and they fared VERY, VERY WELL!

I'm certain that there are quite a few states that maintain them as being a Phase 2 OWB that complies with the EPA's tests.

Massachusetts I believe was one of them.

I wish that the states that mandate that an OWB be EPA compliant, would also mandate that European Indoor Wood Boiler manufacturers who sell units in our country spend the money and go through the testing procedures just like they are forcing the OWB companies to do!

I believe that they(IWB's) would easily pass the efficiency part of the testing, but I think they would fail on the particulate emissions part of the testing. If the IWB's don't have to be tested, then neither should the OWB's......In my humble opinion, that is! 
Logged
Newholland TZ-25da
30+ Chain Saws
'05 Dodge Diesel
Michigander
TSC 35 Ton Splitter

Scott7m

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3740
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: E Series
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2013, 10:11:28 PM »

The Garn 1500 and the 2000 were tested last year at one of the EPA's testing facilities, I believe, and they fared VERY, VERY WELL!

I'm certain that there are quite a few states that maintain them as being a Phase 2 OWB that complies with the EPA's tests.

Massachusetts I believe was one of them.

I wish that the states that mandate that an OWB be EPA compliant, would also mandate that European Indoor Wood Boiler manufacturers who sell units in our country spend the money and go through the testing procedures just like they are forcing the OWB companies to do!

I believe that they(IWB's) would easily pass the efficiency part of the testing, but I think they would fail on the particulate emissions part of the testing. If the IWB's don't have to be tested, then neither should the OWB's......In my humble opinion, that is!


The nuts can see outdoor boilers tho lol

It's kinda like putting an extra grip on your hunting rifle makes it an "assault weapon".

Just something for them to go on about trying to feel goof about themselves
Logged
Dealer for:  Heatmaster, Empyre, Earth, Ridgewood, and Woodmaster outdoor furnaces
Furnace Parts Dealer
Pelican water treatment systems
606-316-9697

willywood

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • OWF Brand: Empyre
  • OWF Model: Pro-200
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2013, 10:12:57 PM »

Couple of things. 

Scott you keep insisting you have to babysit a Garn for 2 hours.  That may be true for the initial burn when the tank is cold to get the water heated up to 180,  but after that it's a matter of loading 50-100 lbs. of wood into the boiler and walking away.  I would say 10-15 min. max. because first you have to get a decent fire going before you can really load it up. 

The biggest pain is starting a fire every time because no matter how much wood you throw into a Garn it is completely eaten in 3-4 hours...no idling and no holding back the fire so no coals left alive.  With the help of a propane torch and some kindling even starting a fire doesn't take much time.

As for the UL/CSA sure as sh*t Garn has that designation or they wouldn't be crossing the border.

The EPA testing is completely bogus and pretty much all the wood boiler companies already know this.  Thought that conversation has been run through on here a couple of times???  Even the EPA acknowledges this and has suspended their testing proceedures until they can figure out a legitimate "real world" test for wood boilers.  Never mind the claims of 95% efficiency and the stickers plastered to the boiler like medals and look at the actual emissions numbers.
Logged

Scott7m

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3740
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: E Series
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2013, 10:37:46 PM »

Couple of things. 

Scott you keep insisting you have to babysit a Garn for 2 hours.  That may be true for the initial burn when the tank is cold to get the water heated up to 180,  but after that it's a matter of loading 50-100 lbs. of wood into the boiler and walking away.  I would say 10-15 min. max. because first you have to get a decent fire going before you can really load it up. 

The biggest pain is starting a fire every time because no matter how much wood you throw into a Garn it is completely eaten in 3-4 hours...no idling and no holding back the fire so no coals left alive.  With the help of a propane torch and some kindling even starting a fire doesn't take much time.

As for the UL/CSA sure as sh*t Garn has that designation or they wouldn't be crossing the border.

The EPA testing is completely bogus and pretty much all the wood boiler companies already know this.  Thought that conversation has been run through on here a couple of times???  Even the EPA acknowledges this and has suspended their testing proceedures until they can figure out a legitimate "real world" test for wood boilers.  Never mind the claims of 95% efficiency and the stickers plastered to the boiler like medals and look at the actual emissions numbers.

The numbers are much closer than they used to be, there initial test showed boilers making more btu than they were putting in lol

I think burning firewood might be a good first step in more accurate EPA tests.  When a stove is being tested they are fine tuning it, running it on lean so to speak, when you receive your boiler, it can't be on the same settings, it has to be different to allow for various condtions

In regards to the wood usage....

If it was 100 when you refilled, and you had 2000 gallons and wanted to go to 200, that's 16,680 pounds of water.  1 btu per pound per degree,  so to go from 100 to 200 degrees would require 1,668,000 btu's

Wood produces on average around 8600 btu per pound, Let's say wood moisture content is 18%, 7052 btu per pound is available then, and Garn can average around 84% recovery, so it can recover 5924 btu per pound of wood

That would come to 281.56 pounds of excellent cured wood to go from 100-200 degrees..  That's also assuming no other btu's are being lost in the system which we know is impossible..

To go from 150-200 would require 140.78 pounds of wood
To go from 175-200 would require 70.39 pounds


A cord of oak weighs around 3900.  If you raised the temp from 100-200 every day you would go through a cord of wood every 13 days, that's once again assuming the rest of the system loses nothing. 

I'm also not implying that you have to raise 100 each day, that all varies. 

But 50 pounds of wood would only raise the temp 16-17 degrees in 2000 gallons
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 10:46:19 PM by Scott7m »
Logged
Dealer for:  Heatmaster, Empyre, Earth, Ridgewood, and Woodmaster outdoor furnaces
Furnace Parts Dealer
Pelican water treatment systems
606-316-9697

willieG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1852
  • owbinfo.com
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2013, 04:35:51 AM »

type in "garn wood stoves"in your search box they have a site ,and they say they are approved for indoor placement, and becasue of the size of them they are exempt from epa testing  but they are testing a smaller unit right now.

I think they likley are a good stove and (at least) as good as any OWB. I think "personal preference" comes in to play if you are "for" or "against" them

also garn is about the only indoor "outdoor" stove i have seen..so advertising probable has a lot to do with who has them as well...i mean, one (or only a couple anyway) of these types of stove to hear about in advertising going up against 20 or more OWB companies



Logged
home made OWB (2012)
Ontario Canada

woodywoodchucker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
  • OWF Brand: cental boiler
  • OWF Model: classic 5036
  • what do I look like, an idiot?
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2013, 01:48:16 PM »

This is my 4th year with my 5036 CB and have had no issues with it yet. The dealed I had bought from sux.I found a good guy and use him. I have learned a lot about running these stoves. The one thing I learn is that wood can be green but 6 months seasoned is best. and dont cut your wood 36'' like my first dealed said. 18'' to 24'' burns as long as the big stuff. The thing that blows me away is that I have never added a drop of water to the thing in 4 years. test it yearly and go.
Logged

Drivebymashing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100
  • OWF Brand: Earth Outdoor
  • OWF Model: 305 Bear Cub
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2013, 01:55:44 PM »

Why does it have a 2000 gallon tank?Mine is only 140 gallon it does just fine.
Logged
Husqvarna 445
Husqvarna 262xp
Husqvarna 55
2004 Corvette Z06
1971 Deuce and a half 10x10

Scott7m

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3740
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: E Series
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2013, 02:13:57 PM »

Because its a batch burn unit, you load it once a day and let her eat, then let it go out and use the water from the storage

If you had a small home you might even get a couple days of of it

But look at the math I did about how much wood it takes to raise those temps, they are still effdicient don't get me wrong
Logged
Dealer for:  Heatmaster, Empyre, Earth, Ridgewood, and Woodmaster outdoor furnaces
Furnace Parts Dealer
Pelican water treatment systems
606-316-9697

Drivebymashing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100
  • OWF Brand: Earth Outdoor
  • OWF Model: 305 Bear Cub
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2013, 02:49:42 PM »

So it works the same way using hot circulated water to heat my house and water.But just in bigger tank so it lasts longer between burns .I wouldnt want to have to rebuild the fire every couple days or everyday.I only load my heater twice a day.
Logged
Husqvarna 445
Husqvarna 262xp
Husqvarna 55
2004 Corvette Z06
1971 Deuce and a half 10x10

Scott7m

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3740
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: E Series
    • View Profile
Re: Does any boiler out there fit all of these needs?
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2013, 03:07:23 PM »

Yes that part works the same way, hydronic heating, but you build fires as needed, most once per day
Logged
Dealer for:  Heatmaster, Empyre, Earth, Ridgewood, and Woodmaster outdoor furnaces
Furnace Parts Dealer
Pelican water treatment systems
606-316-9697
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5