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[CountryBoyJohn]

I have 6 horses guess Ill not have to cut wood anymore, coal and manure look out neighbors

Nice!  I'm burning coal in mine.  They can kiss my you know what.  Besides, there is no real enforcement in that law.  I did a TON of digging on the code that Mr. Snood posted.  There was a public hearing that was held some time in 2011 or 2012 where the EPA "heard" from people on the subject.  Much like they are going to have in Boston this year.  Anyway, one of the "anti" comments was "how are you going to enforce this law?  There is no penalty clause."  The EPA basically responded "we can't."  There is no penalty clause, there is no fine, no confiscation, nothing.    They can't do anything about it.  There is no "stove patrol."  The only way anyone is going to come out to your place is if a neighbor files a complaint of some kind. 

[Sloppy_Snood]

Would someone in indiana please run coal, manure, couple tires, and dead animal remains through their OWB? 

We Hoosiers need to know how much of creosote buildup problem there will be and if we need to brush *hit out of the Optimizer heat exchanger tubes.  LOLOLOL

[slimjim]

OH BOY!

[Sloppy_Snood]

There is no penalty clause, there is no fine, no confiscation, nothing.    They can't do anything about it.  There is no "stove patrol."  The only way anyone is going to come out to your place is if a neighbor files a complaint of some kind.

I am NOT legal counsel but CBJ is correct:  EPA cannot enforce anything because the EPA Phase II program is voluntary.


The Catch?:  By making the EPA Phase II Compliance a voluntary program, EPA is empowering the 50 individual states (this is almost NEVER the case in the United States but EPA has done so with a strategy in mind).  The individual states have the power to adopt the EPA's Phase II program as part of state law.  Indiana has done this very thing.

While the "rules" are dictated by IDEM, the carry with them the power of enforcement through Indiana law.  IDEM adopted Rule 3 which basically assures compliance to the "voluntary" requirements of the EPA Phase II program.

Enforcement actions can occur through IC 13-17-3  Chapter 3. Powers and Duties Concerning Air Pollution Control subsection 13-17-3-3 AND IC 13-30-3 Chapter 3. Investigation of Violations; Administrative Proceedings and Orders subsection 13-30-3-11 Orders of Commissioner:

IC 13-17-3-3 Enforcement
     Sec. 3. Air pollution control laws may be enforced under IC 13-14-2-6 or IC 13-30-3  Indiana Code 13-14-2-6

IC 13-30-3-11 Orders of commissioner
     Sec. 11. An order of the commissioner under this chapter may do any of the following:
        (1) Include a direction to cease and desist from violations of the following:
            (A) Environmental management laws.
            (B) Air pollution control laws.
            (C) Water pollution control laws.
            (D) A rule adopted by the board.
            (E) A rule adopted by the underground storage tank financial assurance board created by IC 13-23-11-1.
        (2) Impose monetary penalties in accordance with the following:
            (A) Environmental management laws.
            (B) Air pollution control laws. 
          (C) Water pollution control laws.
        (3) Mandate corrective action, including corrective action to be taken beyond the boundaries of the area owned or controlled by the person to whom the order is directed, to alleviate the violation.
        (4) Revoke a permit or condition or modify the terms of a permit.


Given that authority, the Commissioner may proceed to court action (if necessary) through IC 13-14-2 Chapter 2. Powers of Department subsection IC 13-14-2-6

IC 13-14-2-6  Court actions by commissioner

     Sec. 6. Except as provided in IC 13-14-6, the commissioner may proceed in court, by appropriate action, to:
        (1) enforce any final order of the commissioner or the board;
        (2) collect any penalties or fees;
        (3) procure or secure compliance with this title or any other law that the department has the duty or power to enforce;
        (4) procure compliance with any standard or rule of the board;
        (5) enforce a restrictive covenant (as defined in IC 13-11-2-193.5) in accordance with the terms of the covenant if the covenant is:
            (A) executed before July 1, 2009;
            (B) approved by the commissioner; and
            (C) created in connection with any:
                (i) remediation;
                (ii) closure;
                (iii) cleanup;
                (iv) corrective action; or
                (v) determination exercising enforcement discretion or of no further action being required;
            approved by the department under this title; or
        (6) enforce a restrictive covenant (as defined in IC 13-11-2-193.5) in accordance with the terms of the covenant if the covenant is:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            (A) executed after June 30, 2009; and
            (B) created in connection with any of the following approved by the department under this title:
                (i) A remediation.
                (ii) A closure.
                (iii) A cleanup.
                (iv) A corrective action.
                (v) A determination exercising enforcement discretion or of no further action being required.


In short, IDEM can impose significant financial penalties and other legal action if they wanted to.  Highly doubt they ever would but.... the power of law is there if they ever chose to use it.

Everyone can do as they wish.... but I want to make sure that it is understood that potential consequences do exist for burning coal (and other materials) in an OWB in Indiana. 

[slimjim]

Hey guys and gals, Sloppy_Snood is right on this, if you were to cause a real issue in your neighborhood, believe me the right commissioner or director can make your life hell, a far better approach in my opinion is to try to talk some sense into these college educated regulators and uppity neighbors. How many of us will take the time to get to know our neighbors before a complaint is made to our regulators? My suggestion is to take a nice saturday afternoon, grab a rack of good beer, go knock on your neighbors door, offer him a beer and ask him to look at your system and talk to each other about the pro's and con's of it, who knows he may become one of those guys or gals that you would rather have in the foxhole with you instead of the guy turning you in.

[jnicol6600]

Wish there were more units rated for indoor use. Common sense just doesn't cut it anymore.

[Sloppy_Snood]

Wish there were more units rated for indoor use. Common sense just doesn't cut it anymore.

I do not understand.... why would one want to put an outdoor wood burning boiler inside a building?  I thought the whole idea was to keep the mess and chance of fire outside of the building structure.    Just trying to understand why you desire to have more inside use rated units.  Thanks. 

[jnicol6600]

Wish there were more units rated for indoor use. Common sense just doesn't cut it anymore.

I do not understand.... why would one want to put an outdoor wood burning boiler inside a building?  I thought the whole idea was to keep the mess and chance of fire outside of the building structure.    Just trying to understand why you desire to have more inside use rated units.  Thanks. 

Only because the law pertains to Outdoor hydronic heaters. Just a loophole i guess. I am sure it wouldnt matter anyway because they are just taking small bites and eventually you wont be able to burn anything for heat.

[JTS717]

The ordinance in my township states that wood fired furnaces may only be operated inside the building which they are heating.  No person shall install, use or maintain an outdoor wood fired furnace. I am currently heating with a forced air indoor wood furnace in my basement.  I have tried to argue that a gasification outdoor wood hydronic heater would smoke less, stink less, and burn much cleaner than my current furnace.  No one in the town was educated on the topic or was willing to take the time to understand the differences.  That being said I have made up my mind that I am going to buy a P&M Optimizer 250 and install it. (Just need to save up a few more pennies)  I have talked to my neighbors and explained it to them and they don't have any issues.  I guess if something comes up this might be one of the times it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. 

[slimjim]

Where the heck do you live, are they a bunch of tyrannical nitwits, can they not read or do some research themselves, sounds like it's time for them to go, perhaps you should work within their own system to get them out of office, Run against them in the next local election!

[JTS717]

I should say they are uneducated on gasification and EPA certified wood burners in general.  Even worse they are stuck on the stereotypes that everyone uses them as incinerators and will burn whatever gives off heat.

As far as running, I would have to get a group of guys together and take over the whole show.  One man simply wouldn't be enough.  But, all hope isn't lost, I recently purchased 30 acres of woods in the next town over that has no restrictions on OWBs.  I plan on building out there in the next 3-5 years, maybe less if they put up too big of a fit when I install the OWB at my current house.

[slimjim]

It's called voting with your feet and wallet, you should remind them that is the reason our founding fathers referred to this country as THESE UNITED STATES!!!!!!!

[franky1]

Heee Hawww Slim JIm,,RAck of good cold beer,,,maybe we should go to "their" meetings with that......them college professers.....