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Author Topic: Ultimizer or Optimizer?  (Read 12917 times)

slimjim

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2014, 06:51:16 AM »

MW welcome aboard, As far as comparison of products, you are more than welcome to ask about any brand and I'm sure there will be lots of comments, it's up to you to make your own choice, as far as comparison between P+M products, what else would you like to know, I think 15% would be a fair # and the learning curve of the gassers is that they burn in a totally different way, let me see if I can explain the way it works. In a typical conventional stove air is fed into the burn chamber via a controlled air inlet rather natural draft or blower, the air is injected in different brands to different areas of the fire, I personally think under fire and over fire at the same time works best in the conventionals, some go a step further with firebrick and ceramics to burn what they can of the smoke as it is wasted fuel and  the Ultimizer takes it 2 steps further with the 3 pass heat exchanger before the exhaust is released and the fact that it is a sectional boiler, ( it can be split in half by removing the bolts that hold the water tank to the dry base), these are some of the reasons for the great reviews on the Ultimizer.
  Next I'll try to explain the Optimzer, First you have to understand that the goal of a gasser is to create smoke in the initial firebox, ( this is fuel to be burned later in the reaction chamber) air is pumped into the primary burn chamber on a call for heat to aid in the burn that creates the fuel, no call for heat and blower shuts off and an actuator closes the air off so no air movement happens in the stove, at this point the heat that is stored in the ceramics cooks the wood to a charcoal, this is why you hear folks say don't overload the stove, only put in what you need to, (learning curve) if to much charcoal is made it will plug up the nozzle to the reaction chamber, the 250 thrives on 2-3 inches of ash and charcoal, others will chime in on their stoves I can only speak for P+M comfortably, now on a call for heat air is pumped intop the primary chamber and forces the mixture of smoke and air down through what we refer to as a nozzle, the extreme temp of the ceramics, ai and fuel come together and ignite into a blue flame that burns almost all of the particulate matter out of the gas creating a flame that can reach well over 2000 degrees, a cooking hot conventional fire might go 12-1400 degrees, when you burn that hot there is no creosote left in the exhaust, therefor now we can put a true tripple pass fire tube heat exchanger on the unit to harness that heat, exhaust temps on the 250 are measured at the base of the chimney at what we call the breach of the boiler and when the tubes are clean should run around 260 degrees and the boiler should have the tubes brushed out before reaching 320 degreesF, OK my typing finger is starting to bleed, if you have any more question I'll be happy to try and answer them.
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MW

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2014, 07:39:58 AM »

Thank you SlimJim.  I never noticed this before, but the non-shaker grate model of the Ultimizer does have a second air inlet on top.  Which as you said would make that even more efficient, and I assume more so than the shaker model.  The one I got rid of had shaker grates and the blower in the rear underneath, however, it took in outside air and not pre-heated cutting down on efficiencies.  For those who would like to help shed some light on comparing brands, the other one I'm looking at is a Natures Comfort model ncb175 as well as their gasser.  Thanks again.
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mlappin

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2014, 07:48:39 AM »

PS did you get in touch with Brian?

Not yet, been busy trying to get a delivery truck to reliably start when cold. I might try yet today, suggested to the wife I drop her off in Marion so she can handle her parents 50th wedding anniversary party and I'd head to Crawfordsville, that went over like  lead ballon unfortunately.
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Sloppy_Snood

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2014, 08:27:59 AM »

....exhaust temps on the 250 are measured at the base of the chimney at what we call the breach of the boiler and when the tubes are clean should run around 260 degrees and the boiler should have the tubes brushed out before reaching 320 degreesF, OK my typing finger is starting to bleed, if you have any more question I'll be happy to try and answer them.

Would it be acceptable to wire a temperature probe into the side of the chimney (and somehow into the boiler area possibly?) in order to monitor ehaust temperatures?

It would seem to me to be very valuable information when trying to keep an Optimizer optimized.  Answers from anyone are encouraged.
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mlappin

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2014, 08:34:52 AM »

....exhaust temps on the 250 are measured at the base of the chimney at what we call the breach of the boiler and when the tubes are clean should run around 260 degrees and the boiler should have the tubes brushed out before reaching 320 degreesF, OK my typing finger is starting to bleed, if you have any more question I'll be happy to try and answer them.

Would it be acceptable to wire a temperature probe into the side of the chimney (and somehow into the boiler area possibly?) in order to monitor ehaust temperatures?

It would seem to me to be very valuable information when trying to keep an Optimizer optimized.  Answers from anyone are encouraged.

Might want to check with the manufacturer about warranty before modifying in any way.

Another member who started on his own gasifier was going to add a wide range oxygen sensor and a pid controller to fine tune the secondary air.
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slimjim

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2014, 09:42:02 AM »

If you wish to add a stack temp gauge do as I do with each boiler that comes through my place here, right above the last pass of heat exchanger just before the stack is the back wall of the heat exchanger, it is the flat portion above the door, drill a 1/4 inch hole into that steel and install a candy thermometer available at most any hardware store, they are 400 degree max temp and very accurate, this will not void any warranty! Mlappin I responded to your PM, keep in touch.
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Sloppy_Snood

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2014, 11:13:16 AM »

Thank you slimjim.  I have a temperature probe, wiring, and display from work (pharmaceuticals) that will be perfect for the application (even has an RF transmitter to provide continuous, wireless stack temperature data twice every second ;) ).   I am going to have a laptop computer of mine record the data over time in order to see if stack temerpatures trends can be identified and correlated to boiler "events" that may occur during operation.   Something similar to CB's e-LINK but I'm writing my own code for the program.

I will drill the hole in the location you have described.  :thumbup:

(btw.... I'm working with Brian Cooper in Crawfordsville, IN for my 250 or Ultimizer ;) )
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 11:21:43 AM by Sloppy_Snood »
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slimjim

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2014, 11:26:42 AM »

I tried calling him yesterday, not sure if he remembers me or got the voicemail, tell him I said Hi and if there is anything I can answer just call
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slimjim

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2014, 11:45:25 AM »

  Brian must have ESP, just as I punched the post in he called
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Sloppy_Snood

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 12:13:10 PM »

Back from Nashville, TN after a long weekend at the National Wild Turkey Federation's annual convention and trade show (outdoor wood furnace companies ought to advertise at this huge show but I never saw a single company  :( ).

Lots of thinking and reading over the last 5 evenings.... with great feedback from everyone in this thread and slimjim, martyinmi, and CountryBoyJohn, I must say that I am now leaning toward the P&M Ultimizer BL 3444 (thank for the private message input CBJ and Marty and Karl).

Why?  First, heat requirements.  I actually reviewed the final dimensions of my home from the drawings to learn that I actually have 5,900 sq. ft. of heated space in my home (includes a heated 1,100 sq. ft. drive-in 3 -door 3-car garage).  I just do not think that the Optimizer 250 is going to best serve my BTU demand and financially, I cannot afford an Optimizer 350.

I am curious as to what you guys think I should do now.... I really would like to see a BL 3444 in action.  Anyone know of a BL-3444 Ultimizer in service in the midwest? ????  I am in central Indiana halfway between Terre Haute, IN and Indianapolis, IN off of interstate I-70.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 07:13:27 PM by Sloppy_Snood »
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CountryBoyJohn

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Re: Ultimizer or Optimizer?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2014, 12:34:54 PM »

I think Mr. mtoll said there is a P&M dealer in Jasper. He could possibly point you to one here in Indiana. Do a search on "Jasper", I think Mr. mtoll mentioned the guys name in a post.

I think you'll be happy with a conventional. I think their new stove has a lot of potential! Hope you find one to see in action!
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