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Author Topic: Why didn't I just get geothermal  (Read 16126 times)

farmboythegreat

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 02:48:14 PM »

rich people heat
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Scott7m

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 03:27:16 PM »

rich people heat

There cold, they just won't admit it  :thumbup:
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mlappin

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 08:50:57 PM »

Yep, back 20 years ago they started this exhaust kick.  Dodge took there ram trucks and put an air pump on them that was turned by the engine, the pump supplied fresh air to the exhaust which makes it appear cleaner

How's that for a load of crap?

The epa and California thought it was great but it never dawned on them that it takes more power to turn the pump and more fuel but only disguised the exhaust

We have to many people in position of power with cute little ideas but not enough sense to know what will work and what eont

Speaking of cute, we have AM General in the next town over. Turns out some of their vents couldn't pass EPA standards at the hummer plant. Too many VOC's or something. So instead of fixing it a loop hole in the law let them get away with taking the vents that tested high and splitting then so you had the same amount coming out of 2 or more vents but thats perfectly legal. Dad worked on that job, he was a union tin knocker at the time. Spent six weeks adding more vents to dilute the off gas basically, kinda just like Dodge and those stupid air pumps.
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AirForcePOL

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 09:09:49 PM »

rich people heat

There cold, they just won't admit it  :thumbup:

I wouldn't trade this heat for nothin! It always feels warmer when you're not writing that check to the gas company every month too!  A guy I work with always brags about his geothermal.  I just sit there quietly cause I know he paid at least 25k for his setup.  I'll pass.   


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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 10:39:35 PM »

The farm across from me has geo thermal to heat his old farm house and shop floor. I asked him this winter how it was when we had these really cold days and he said usually it is alright but when it can't keep up to the heat demand an electric coil on top of the furnace comes on as a boost.

Sounds very efficient to me.

Anything that needs government grants to sell it tells me it can't stand on it's own two feet.

Bob
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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2014, 05:23:55 AM »

The farm across from me has geo thermal to heat his old farm house and shop floor. I asked him this winter how it was when we had these really cold days and he said usually it is alright but when it can't keep up to the heat demand an electric coil on top of the furnace comes on as a boost.

Sounds very efficient to me.

Anything that needs government grants to sell it tells me it can't stand on it's own two feet.

Bob
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slimjim

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2014, 05:25:23 AM »

The farm across from me has geo thermal to heat his old farm house and shop floor. I asked him this winter how it was when we had these really cold days and he said usually it is alright but when it can't keep up to the heat demand an electric coil on top of the furnace comes on as a boost.

Sounds very efficient to me.

Anything that needs government grants to sell it tells me it can't stand on it's own two feet.

Bob
Sorry I fat fingered that one ( I LOVE YOU BOB !!!!!!)
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hrc200x

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2014, 06:41:08 AM »

If we didn't cut down and burn the wood we do its going to burn at some point anyway...forest fire
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mlappin

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2014, 05:46:02 PM »

If we didn't cut down and burn the wood we do its going to burn at some point anyway...forest fire

Never had a forest fire in our area that I know off, but your one hundred percent correct. Most forest fires are from mismanagement either from not allowing people to go in and cut dead or dying trees or from putting the little ones out enough times that sooner or later the dead material accumulates enough that once its going, their is no putting it out.
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6pacmac

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2014, 06:30:44 PM »

PETA, People eating tasty animals
.    There is a place for all of god's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes and gravey. >:D :thumbup:
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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2014, 08:26:26 PM »

rich people heat
Absolutely agree..I see geo heat in the wealthiest homes.., I also see is in some schools and country clubs
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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2014, 07:36:26 AM »

I hope to employ both when I build my new home.  There is nothing wrong with a proper geo setup.  It will provide the same hot water to my in slab circuits as the wood furnace, granted the fan coils for low mass heating will not be as efficient, however the cooling in the summer is a fine trade off.

Neal
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oldchenowth

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2014, 08:24:29 AM »

As most on here know, I am pretty stupid.  I cannot understand how 50 degree water can warm a home past 50 degrees.  Without help.  My owb is 190 and warms the house easily to 75 and water to 130+.  If this is true, shouldn't the reciprical be true that my OWB can cool my house from 95 to 70 in summer?

Physics were not my strong point in school.  And as I said I am pretty dumb.  I also have a friend that is saving money with geo.  She needed a 200 amp service installed to run a 90 amp pump and still has not paid for a new transformer on the pole that will allow for a 100 amp heating booster.  I still believe electric is more $$$ and less efficient than propane, which she took out. 

I still don't understand.  Back to sentence #1.
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agriffinjd

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2014, 09:57:50 AM »

As most on here know, I am pretty stupid.  I cannot understand how 50 degree water can warm a home past 50 degrees.  Without help.  My owb is 190 and warms the house easily to 75 and water to 130+.  If this is true, shouldn't the reciprical be true that my OWB can cool my house from 95 to 70 in summer?

Physics were not my strong point in school.  And as I said I am pretty dumb.  I also have a friend that is saving money with geo.  She needed a 200 amp service installed to run a 90 amp pump and still has not paid for a new transformer on the pole that will allow for a 100 amp heating booster.  I still believe electric is more $$$ and less efficient than propane, which she took out. 

I still don't understand.  Back to sentence #1.

Don't feel bad.  It took me months of study to figure out how it works.  I'm building a new home this summer and seriously considered geothermal.  In the end, it's too expensive and I'm on 45 acres of trees that I can use to heat with.  So I'm getting an OWB with a propane furnace for backup.

It's actually a ground-source heat pump, because it's pumping heat molecules from the dirt into your compressor which compresses the heat molecules which causes their temperature to increase.  It then blows out the air through your air ducts (I've been told air ducts are the most efficient with ground-source heat pumps).  There are also air-source heat pumps but they falter when it gets below 30 degrees F.  Anyway, the way it works is to think of it as electrical heat.  You use electricity to run your compressor.  The liquid flows through the ground.  Liquid picks up heat from the dirt.  Liquid is much more efficient for transferring heat than the air is.  The compressor grabs the heat out of the liquid as it passes through, compresses it and raises its temperature, then blows it out.  The now colder liquid goes back into the coils buried in the earth to collect more heat.  The wetter the soil the coils are buried in, the better it works.  If you use a pond or a well loop it's even better because liquid passes heat molecules faster and more efficiently than dirt does. 

The problem is that the liquid is coming into the house at about 33 degrees F in the dead of winter, because as you pull heat out of the dirt it takes awhile for more heat to move into contact with the coils from the other dirt that is still at 40-50 degrees F.  So as your outside air temp drops significantly, the ground-source heat pump needs help to create enough heat.  That's where the integrated electric heater kicks in (or propane or some other type) as a supplement.

In the end, you're paying money to the electric company instead of the gas man.  It's much more efficient than a propane furnace though so it is cheaper than propane.  However, it's hard to gauge paypack on the investment until you have it installed and see how much you pay in electric to run it versus how much you paid in propane (and the electric to blow the hot air around the house via the propane furnace).  The ground-source heat pumps run the most efficiently when they're running 24/7 and are variable stage rather than just 2 stages.

Where ground-source heat pumps shine is in cooling the house.  It runs in reverse, pulling heat molecules out of the home and sending them out into the dirt through the coils that are buried.  It basically turns your house into a giant refrigerator that way and is more efficient than an A/C unit.

Cost is just so expensive though, and without a guarantee of the"payback" I'd rather heat with wood.  Especially since the IRS in November released an opinion that the 30% tax credit doesn't include your ducting system like it used to.  That meant it would have been an additional $3K or so out of pocket if I remember my estimate correctly.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 11:41:58 AM by agriffinjd »
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Scott7m

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Re: Why didn't I just get geothermal
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2014, 12:09:01 PM »

I'm Def not saying geo don't work.  It does work if properly done, but I've never ever seen the savings it presented be worth the overwhelming cost of it

The ac side of it is great, but once again we have to come back that there are now conventional style heat pumps who's acs out perform geo
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