Print

[Sloppy_Snood]

Does anyone else see the striking similarity between the new P&M EGR250 and the Polar Furnace G3 gassifying outdoor wood boilers?

Compare P&M EGR250:





To Polar Furnace G3:





Anyone ever compare these two units?

They look extremely similar to me.  Thoughts?

[mlappin]

They certainly seem to look alike.

I noticed several things about P&M’s newest one that shared several things in common with their previous models, mainly the draft induction used in their 100 and short run 350 models. Using a DC motor is clever though, continuous flow corn dryers have used a DC gear motor to vary the speed on the metering rolls practically forever, it’s a proven design thats simple and reliable.

Looks like a LOT of refractory material, and the included site glass into the secondary is a nice feature.

Heatmaster G series already have the removable air curtains although only on the sides.

Looked at the Polar as well, wonder if P&M is selling furnaces to them and allowing them to be rebranded as the similarities are far too numerous to believe that two separate companies came up with practically identical boilers.

After running my G Series since early November I’m a believer when it comes to the advantages of 409 stainless. I can take my pocket knife and scrape off what little creosote or ash I have on any surface and its still shiny underneath with no signs of corrosion starting unlike my previous mild steel unit that had flash rust every where before it was even filled with water.

[mlappin]

Didn’t Wood Doctor reorganize as Polar?

[Sloppy_Snood]

It could very well be mlappin.

LINK: http://www.noutilitybills.com/OldProducts/WD/WDDiscontinued.html

[shepherd boy]

Has the EGR250 ever been certified? The Polar G3 has been. I doubt they are the same, clone maybe? If it's the same furnace it should have the the same certification.

[martyinmi]

The only things that similar about these two boilers are:

1) They are both Canadian made.

2) They are both gassers.

It's past my bedtime right now, but if anyone is interested, I'll post the important differences between the two tomorrow evening.

And yes, the EGR250 easily passed testing.

[shepherd boy]

The Optimizer 350 is the only one listed on the updated epa list. I know there is sometimes a lag from approval to listing and was just wondering.

[AirForcePOL]

The only things that similar about these two boilers are:

1) They are both Canadian made.

2) They are both gassers.

It's past my bedtime right now, but if anyone is interested, I'll post the important differences between the two tomorrow evening.

And yes, the EGR250 easily passed testing.

Please do explain the differences.

[tinfoilhat2020]

thats sooo funny....polar furnace is identical to the wood doctor....just changed the decals......LMAO

[Strawbale Builder]

Polar boilers are manufactured by the Silverwinds Hutterite colony in Sperling, Manitoba, they also were the manufacturer of Wood Doctor boilers. Portage and Main are manufactured by Piney manufacturing in Piney Manitoba. Polar, Heat Master and Portage and Main all incorporate design features that can be traced to a German/Austrian boiler manufacturer called Froling. Features like air curtains to keep the fire chamber walls dry, vertical heat exchange tubes with turbulators connected to linkage for easy cleaning and a round reaction chamber which gives you better combustion. European boiler manufacturers have been using these design features for years and they are now becoming standard in US and Canadian made gasification boilers. The Portage and Main is unique because it is a sectional boiler with water jacketed horizontal flues in the base section for extra heat exchange along with the vertical flues in the upper water jacket. Portage and Main also incorporates much more refractory, which is proven to give you a hotter burn and along with the air curtains help to keep the boiler dry. Keeping a boiler dry is key to longevity whether it is 409 or carbon steel. If you take a good look at the cross-sections of each boiler you'll see a lot of key differences. Polar's Max heating area square-foot for the G3 is 14,000 according to their brochure, I think that's a bit of a stretch, the Portage and Main EGR 250 is rated at 4000 to 6000 ft.² and weighs 450 pounds more than the G3. The extra weight would be attributed to the lower water jacket with extra heat exchange tubes and the extra refractory. If you go by the brochures and look at water jacket size and recommended heating square footage you have to compare the EGR 250 to the Polar G2, then the Portage and Main EGR is 1000 pounds heavier. I am looking forward to what martyinmi has to say later today.

[Sloppy_Snood]

And yes, the EGR250 easily passed testing.

Passed testing... What does that mean exactly?

I see no claim on P&M's website that this boiler is EPA White Tag Phase II certified so... "Website update delay?"

Similarities I see include:

1. Sheet metal shape is the same
2.  Vortex-style secondary burn system and chamber
3.  Sacrificial side curtains in the primary burn chamber
4.  Nearly identical location of the side access door (clean out?) at the juncture of the horizontal and vertical heat exchanger tubes
5.  Nearly identical location and operation of the side, manually-actuated vetical turbulator lever.
6.  Front and center sight glass on secondary burn chamber door

... and many more similarities it appears.

Much more than just Canadian-manufacture and gassification units in similarity to my eye.

[shepherd boy]

I think your right. It has not passed EPA white tag. The other question I wonder about is whether the ultimizer is coal only independent lad tested. UL or other. Strawbale's website says if it can burn coal it's legal. The way I read it it must be independent lab tested coal only. I was at a farmshow recently and no tags were on the stove, not even a brand name.

[Strawbale Builder]

Polar did not invent those features they have been in use in Europe for some time, Heatmaster also incorporates some of the same features in their gasser. Check out Froling's website. The Ultimizer shaker grate model is tested and listed for coal only and has been for years. You can pull up the brochure on the P & M website.

[Strawbale Builder]

The EGR 250 is a sectional boiler with an upper water jacket and vertical flues like Polar and Heatmaster but it is the only boiler I have seen that also has water jacketed horizontal flues in the in the base.

[Sloppy_Snood]

Polar did not invent those features they have been in use in Europe for some time, Heatmaster also incorporates some of the same features in their gasser. Check out Froling's website.

I made no claim that Polar Furnace nor Portage & Main invented any features I previously mentioned 


That said, what NEW PRODUCTION (meaning, as if January 1, 2016) Portage and Main products are actually manufactured and for sale in the United States and meet the EPA White Tag Phase II requirements?

I know there is the Enviro-Chip 500 Burner and it is not EPA Phase II White Tag and has been discontinued.  Remaining inventory can be sold in the U.S. for commercial use only.

No more BL Ultimizers (non-shaker grate version) can be sold in the U.S.  Never an EPA White Tag Phase II qualified boiler.

Optimizer 250 and 350 gassifiers CAN BE purchased but from remaining dealer inventories.  As they are no longer listed on the P&M website, I ASSUME they are discontinued models now??

The EGR250 Optimizer may pass testing but without certification, it means "no dice" for U.S. Customers wanting a P&M boiler with certification.

What EPA White Tag Phase II P&M wood boiler residential units are now available for the U.S. Customers?