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[snead]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and have a question. Purchasing an OWB is a huge investment and it appears there are more and more local communities and some states implementing regulations.  Has anyone had their OWB shut down after making the purchase?

Thanks

Snead

[Ridgekid]

Not sure where you are located. Here in Pennsylvania, you have until May 31st to buy a "smoker" After that a gasifier. No regulation if you already have a non gasifer after that date.

[MattyNH]

Here in New Hampshire all OWB has to meet EPA phase 2..Been like that here for almost 2years..Last yr a central boiler dealer told me epa phase 2 is gonna be nation wide...Never heard of the non epa owb being shut down

[snead]

I did a search and found where an OWB was sut down in Michigan for creating a health hazard. I also found many other negative reports when searching the internet. The EPA recently took their effencieny ratings down for Phase II units stating that the infomation was not accurate.  Most recently, Oregon put a moratorium on the sale of Phase II units claiming EPA's test results were not realistic.  It appears that more and more states are considering more drastic regulations. I'm trying to find a way to lower my heating bill and was considering an OWB but I'm concerned about losing my investment. This is why I'm asking if anyone had problems with their state, local government, or private lawsuits?  10K is a lot of money to spend if sometime in the immediate future I'm forced to shut down or have to defend a lawsuit. I'm also concerned about insurance. I read where insurance companies are beginning concerned about a rise in lawsuits.

Any input would be appreciated.

Snead

[Bull]

I think it would depend on what state you live in. Check the local laws to you and your community to see if anything would hamper the use of an OWB. Some laws exclude existing setups.

[snead]

What concerns me is not existing law but what may transpire in the future, after I made the investment.  Recently, I went to the EPA website and found that they took the efficiency ratings down for Phase II burners.  I then called the department of environmental quality in our state and was told that because the testing methodology used to certify Phase II OWBs is now in question the efficieny rating were inaccurate. This decision was based on another test that was conducted using different variables. I was told states are now waiting for the full report to be release before moving forward on new regulations.  He also said that the new test will be used to validate the new stricter National Ambient Air Quality standard concerning OWBs due to come out soon.  Most alarming, was his comment on particulate matter. He stated that the particulate matter measured in the new test was significantly higher than the old test and considered a high threat to health.  So does this mean that everyone who now owns an OWB could face a lawsuit in the future based on the results of this test? And what will happen to insurance rates when the report is released?

I think I'll wait for a while to make a purchase to see how this all shakes out.

[gspren]

  I guess I tend to NOT be a worrier, but I think if its legal when you install it you will be OK. If we worry about future rules too much we could never buy a car, truck, or anything else. Thats just my opinion.

Gary

[Ridgekid]

My thoughts- If you live in a residential area, yeah it might be a problem. Talk to your neighbors before you purchase. Make sure you meet the minimum site requirements (distance from property line, closest home). Most of the time this can be resolved by raising the chimney.

For those of us that live in Rural areas- Leave us alone. We live in a rural areas for peace of mind. BURN BABY BURN! 

[snead]

Ridgekid,

I did some additional research and found what is being called "preliminary findings" concerning the anticipated test results for EPA's new Particulate Matter standards. Ironically, some of the testing was done using a CL5036 boiler. I noticed in your signature block that you use the same boiler. I thought you might be interested in seeing the information.

http://www.nyserda.org/programs/Research_Development/EPA%20Project%20Update.pdf

Snead

[Ridgekid]

WOW. 5000 grams is just over 11 lbs. (I burn red oak). I hope it was seasoned wood! And that was per day?

We'll first we don't actually know what the actual test conditions were. Like was the sampling pipe cleaned between tests? Don't get me wrong, I know my model puts more in the atmosphere than a gasifier. Alot more. Am I upset? NO. My location is 1/4 mile from my closet neighbor, who also happens to have a CB 4030. We have 30 acres of woods between us. We have free heat and and still dropped our footprint of fossil fuel dependency. Which I want to remind you, fossil fuels put alot more in the atmosphere than our woodburners.

As stated before, I've watched my woodburner during operation. On a burn it smokes, but not any worse than my indoor woodburner did though the house chimney. When it wasn't on a burn, there were times I thought the fire went out as no smoke was seen.

So like I said in my previous post. BURN BABY BURN! 

[snead]

After I seen this report I called the department of environmental quality and asked if there was a way to covert grams per hour to micro grams meter cubed (the standard EPA uses for their 24 hour PM 2.5 monitoring) He said if there were a temperature inversion and the OWB was putting out 5000 grams per day it would equate to 208 micrograms meter cubed per hour.  The EPA standard is 35 ug/meter cubed average per day. This is 173 ug higher each hour than what is considered safe air by the EPA.  This is why I'm inquiring about law suits. Yes it may have been legal to put in, but when these numbers are made public and a neighbor hires an attorney stating the OWB is making them sick or aggravating a preexisting injury it will be difficult to convince a jury the OWB is safe. Let’s not forget the insurance companies. Because of the risk they too will not insure a home owner who owns an OWB. Like I said earlier until this thing shakes out I may just hold on to my indoor unit.

Snead

[MattyNH]

Kind of hard to say who is causing health problems in an area where every other home burns wood. Take a walk around here in the fall and all you smell is wood burning. It would be impossible to blame only one person. Not like people can afford to heat with anything else.  $4.04 gal propane yesterday when they topped of my tank. Glad to see that truck leave with only a 30 gal. delivery since october.

 Id agree with you cooch..It would  be hard to pin point that the owb is causing heath probs..Esp when the whole neighbor hood burns wood...Never heard of insurance co not insure homes cause they have a owb...I think there should be a discount. Reason why..Took the fire out of the house..Owb still running here. Might shut it down for the season after this wet week we are gonna get..

[Ridgekid]

Cooch-

$4.04/gallon is cheap. When I gave up my propane for my pool heater they reinbursed me $5.98 a gallon. I was happy it was a full tank!

MattyNH-

I called my insurance man last week. Wasn't any more on my insurance for having a woodburner indoors. So I didn't get a discount for putting it outdoors.

[MattyNH]

Cooch-

$4.04/gallon is cheap. When I gave up my propane for my pool heater they reinbursed me $5.98 a gallon. I was happy it was a full tank!

MattyNH-

I called my insurance man last week. Wasn't any more on my insurance for having a woodburner indoors. So I didn't get a discount for putting it outdoors.
 I dont pay extra either cause of my wood stove in my basement. Nor do I get a discount cause I have a owb..

[RSI]

That is crazy. With $.10 per KWH it comes out to near equivalent of $3 per gallon of LP. Wouldn't take long to pay for a new electric water heater at that rate.