Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Shaver Furnace => Topic started by: lugnut on November 11, 2011, 10:29:01 PM
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Trying to figure out how Shaver can charge $125.00 for their auto damper? I received one that I "supposedly" ordered when I upgraded to a Shaver 250 from a 165. This thing is a piece of garbage. I swear they have NO quality control there at all. Just grab up some flat plate, cut out a circle or something that resembles a circle and then take the disc that is the cut out and weld a hinge onto it, but let's make sure that the hinge is not flat...so I have this auto damper that when the temperature is met, the flap is "supposed" to close and cut off ALL air to the furnace right? Welp, not with this piece of crap. There is at least a 1/16" gap around the entire hole in the plate...and it has little welding gobs on it. the flap does NOT close down tight. :bash:
So like I asked, where do they get off charging $125.00 for junk? When I can go on the Alternative heating website and bought the solenoid and flapper for under $50.00!!! >:(
Lugnut
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Let me tell you I have been dealing with these idiots for 3 years now. Crappy quality all the way around. I just spent $700 to have my top and bottom water jacket replaced.
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the flap that i made looks like crap but it does close i guss mine is closer to shaver then i thought >:D
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I just don't see how there still in business. Everything on them is that way, you go out and buy a furnace from them and immediately have to start working on it to make it work. Doesn't sound like a good situation to me.
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i cant say good or bad becouse mine is home made i did like there desigh so this is how i did mine hope to make some changes this summer like a water sight glass the hinge for the door like willeg and the out side cabnet bigger to add more insulation
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I have to say that I bought this furnace because of the price and the fact that I will be able to recoup the initial out lay of cash sooner than with some of the other units, but I have to say that I am getting more disappointed every time I have to deal with these folks.
I sent them an email with photos per their request last Friday. I requested a confirmation letter and received nothing...just did it again and got a note saying yep, we received it and that was it.
I inquired what their next step would be as I NEED to get this furnace working properly and now while the weather is still nice...relatively speaking. No response. Their service AFTER the sale SUCKS!!!!
I feel after I make three improvements to this unit, it will operate proficiently, but it's just trying to make those improvements especially if one had to deal with them directly.
I will tell you this upfront...Jimmy Reese no longer works at Shaver, I liked Jimmy because WHATEVER question I had, he would respond to me IMMEDIATELY or BY the next day!! There's a new guy that took his place....well let me say it short and simple...Don needs to find another line of work. They put this guy in Jimmy's old job slot and this frellow doesn't know SQUAT about the product. Three times in a matter of 2 minutes he asked for my last name and how to spell it, after I told him the first time. When I mentioned the piece of junk auto damper I received via UPS on Friday, he thought it was on my furnace that they had sent me and again, asked for my name. :bash:
I do believe a letter to the HEAD honco in in order this week. I agree, I have n idea how this company has stayed in business as long as it has. I only hope that there are no problems with the water jacket down the road.
I should just take this damper to a friend of mine and have him fix it right, but I shouldn't have to do that for something I paid for.
More on this saga as it continues....
Lugnut
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Don't bother with the letter to the head man, there well aware and obviously couldn't care less.
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So, I sent an email to Mr. Don yesterday at Shaver asking the following: " Say with that auto damper y'all sent me, I never received any instructions with it as to how or where to connect it to." His reply: "we don not send instructions out with our auto dampers." Really??? So am I supposed to hang this damn thing on a Christmas tree?
"First off this thing that they charge one $125.00 for looks as though it was fabricated by a beginning welder; next I had to take it to a friend's shop and have him "correct" the mess so that I could install it; and then I have no idea where it goes or how to wire it."
Yeah, I know my letter to the head guy will prolly be a waste of time, but I'll get this all off of my chest. Who knows...maybe these worker bees have been snow balling Mr. Billy shaver as well.
Lugnut
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Can you post a picture of it?
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Can you post a picture of it?
Wow, NOW you are asking a lot. LOL! I'll give it whirl again...IF it does not take on here, I will send it directly to your email box.
Jerry
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(http://)PB160230 (Large).JPG
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(http://)PB160231 (Large).JPG
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
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Looks like that screws on the opening of your blower motor, covering the squirrel cage
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Looks like that screws on the opening of your blower motor, covering the squirrel cage
Yep, you are correct sir, BUT.......I'm not touching it. I was looking over my invoice from Shaver and a question popped up in my mind, so I took a stroll out to the furnace, opened the rear door and checked the CFM on the blower. It read 50 CFMs...my option for the auto damper comes with a 75 CFM blower!! So back in the house I go and pick up the phone to call "Don" at Shaver. I asked him to look at my invoice and look down the list of items to where it reads auto damper with 75 CFM blower motor......I told him, my furnace came with a 50CFM blower on it. So he said they would send the correct blower out ASAP....now we'll see. They said the auto damper will come with it as well..... ;-) Hopefully it's better than the ne they sent me last Friday...this one I will send back to them.
Jerry
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My 165 I had first had the 50 cfm blower and my 250 has a 75 cfm fan
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Lugnut, By this time next year you will be the Shaver go to man for anyone with questions about a Shaver.Good luck with your upgrades.
RW
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Lugnut, By this time next year you will be the Shaver go to man for anyone with questions about a Shaver.Good luck with your upgrades.
RW
LOL!!! RW, I feel with all the info I've been getting from the guys on here, I will be an expert. I will also know by then who NOT to talk to at Shaver. As I mentioned to a gentleman on here a day or so ago, the money I saved on buying the Shaver, I can now use to make improvements to and otherwise simple design, but the improvements WILL make it more efficient. right now, I just WANT my creosote issues and black slime issues to go far away....but that won't happen until Shaver sends me the CORRECT blower with the 75 CFMs!
I am making a note of everything I've learned and have been suggested to do. So yes, I then will be able to help someone else who may have questions. As I mentioned in my of other posts...I CAN get more honest and direct responses on this website to ANY question I have either regarding Shaver or just OWB in general than I can FROM "Shaver." and this is is quite sad.
Hey y'all have an awesome weekend and keep feeding the fire and laughing at the utility company. ;D
Lugnut
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here is mine
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Hey bee man, the whole where the hook goes through the flap is plenty big enough to cause your stove to boil over and use more wood. Try to attach it to the flap brace or something on top.
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Trying to figure out how Shaver can charge $125.00 for their auto damper? I received one that I "supposedly" ordered when I upgraded to a Shaver 250 from a 165. This thing is a piece of garbage. I swear they have NO quality control there at all. Just grab up some flat plate, cut out a circle or something that resembles a circle and then take the disc that is the cut out and weld a hinge onto it, but let's make sure that the hinge is not flat...so I have this auto damper that when the temperature is met, the flap is "supposed" to close and cut off ALL air to the furnace right? Welp, not with this piece of crap. There is at least a 1/16" gap around the entire hole in the plate...and it has little welding gobs on it. the flap does NOT close down tight. :bash:
So like I asked, where do they get off charging $125.00 for junk? When I can go on the Alternative heating website and bought the solenoid and flapper for under $50.00!!! >:(
Lugnut
Figured it out...the auto damper does NOT cost $125.00....it's the entire assembly...blower motor AND auto damper. Still I would like to say the fabrication of their auto dampers is junk. The solenoids are store bought, but that's when it goes down hill. Shame one has to "re-fabricate" something that should just have to be fastened to the motor and go. :(
Lugnut
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Hey lugnut, what alternative heating website are you talking about? I am looking for auto dampers for my stove also, not a shaver, but need the same thing for my blower fans. $50 sounds like a good price.
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Hey bee man, the whole where the hook goes through the flap is plenty big enough to cause your stove to boil over and use more wood. Try to attach it to the flap brace or something on top.
It kind of looks like a nut welded to the top of the flap with the hook thru it. Thats how I did mine too.
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here is mine
Beeman mine has a rubber gasket on bottom to help make a good seal. Will try to post pic
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I see that now! Thanks
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Hey lugnut, what alternative heating website are you talking about? I am looking for auto dampers for my stove also, not a shaver, but need the same thing for my blower fans. $50 sounds like a good price.
Here is the website: www.altheatsupply.com (http://www.altheatsupply.com) do a search on their site for "blower motors." I think the least expensive I saw was $57.00 or so.
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Here is the website: www.altheatsupply.com (http://www.altheatsupply.com) do a search on their site for "blower motors." I think the least expensive I saw was $57.00 or so.
Ok so do I just need this http://www.altheatsupply.com/models-546-4400-fan-cover.html (http://www.altheatsupply.com/models-546-4400-fan-cover.html) and this http://www.altheatsupply.com/laminated-solenoid.html (http://www.altheatsupply.com/laminated-solenoid.html) then, or do I need more parts to get it running.
Thanks,
Andy
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mikenc i realey like it did you put it on or was it bought
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Beeman mine has a rubber gasket on bottom to help make a good seal. Will try to post pic
mikenc can you post a picture of how you have your solenoid mounted? I just ordered the rubber flap and solenoid that I linked to above and I'm looking for ideas on how to mount it. Thanks!
Andy
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Thanks for the link lugnut. It's just like being in a candy store.
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My 165 I had first had the 50 cfm blower and my 250 has a 75 cfm fan
Been following this discussion and had some thoughts come to mind:
The 165 comes with a 50 cfm blower with a slide damper for blower air control during off cycle, keeping the fire to a minimum to prevent boiling during off cycle and yet open enough for adequate fire during call for heat.
When ordering the soleniod / damper upgrade, the blower is increased to 75 cfm.
The 250 comes with a 75 cfm blower, ( standard ? ), with or w/out damper upgrade ( ? ).
The increase in blower cfm on the 165 is for ease of installation of damper upgrade when ordering such option.
Thoughts,
1 ) Wouldn't the increase in the blower cfm create a possible overfiring situation ?
2 ) Increased wood consumption ?
3 ) Creating more of a water "hot spot" then conditioning more of the volume of water during a less intense burn cycle ?
4 ) Wouldn't controlling the air flow also contribute to effeciency ? Blower speed controller or slide damper installed along with damper ?
I understand the use of a damper to shut down air flow during off cycle, ( natural draft stoppage ).
Just some thoughts, looking for other opinions and insights.
I understand there are a lot variables when it comes to getting the most out of burning your wood, just looking to get the most from the least.
Thanks,
Church
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Lugnut, By this time next year you will be the Shaver go to man for anyone with questions about a Shaver.Good luck with your upgrades.
RW
HERE YOU ARE!!!!
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Lugnut,
I sent you an email.
RW
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mikenc i realey like it did you put it on or was it bought
Beeman It came with one but I made that one and put i t on myself. Had a friend that works in sheetmetal burn washer with plasma out of stainless, got gasket material local.
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mikenc what kind of stat are you using and were is it at gary lugnut how is the mods going
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My 165 I had first had the 50 cfm blower and my 250 has a 75 cfm fan
I think maybe "some" of my issues deal with not having the correct cfm blower motor in my furnace, although I don't have the damper connected yet either.
Lugnut
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Here is the website: www.altheatsupply.com (http://www.altheatsupply.com) do a search on their site for "blower motors." I think the least expensive I saw was $57.00 or so.
Ok so do I just need this http://www.altheatsupply.com/models-546-4400-fan-cover.html (http://www.altheatsupply.com/models-546-4400-fan-cover.html) and this http://www.altheatsupply.com/laminated-solenoid.html (http://www.altheatsupply.com/laminated-solenoid.html) then, or do I need more parts to get it running.
Thanks,
Andy
Andy,
I would really like to assist you further, but I'm a new kid on the block as well with these OWB. You will however need the (from what I have learned via manufactures mistakes) the 75 CFM blower motor and laminated solenoid along with the flapper. With my unit, it's guessing game I keep playing every damn time. "Do I have to cover over the motor too much or not enough?" So there I go trudging out to the furnace in the middle of the night in my muck yucks, jammies and Carhart jacket with woolie hat....to check on the durn cover over the blower motor. STOP LAUGHING!!!! ;D Darn good thing it's dark when I go out....I surely bet that I'm quite the sight.
One other item you will WANT to get unless you have one already is an Aquastat or Ranco T-stat. I have no way other than using the junk t-stat that came with the 250. With either of the other two t-stats, you can set the off and on temp for your furnace, also see what the water temperature is without having to sneak your wife's candy thermometer out of the kitchen and out to the OWB and stick it in he water to check the temps. :thumbup:
Lugnut
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mikenc what kind of stat are you using and were is it at gary lugnut how is the mods going
Beeman...I'm at a stand still presently. I called Shaver this afternoon and about blew a gasket. No one would answer their phones! I went through just about every extension there and then finally "Don" answered....he tried to connect me at least 6 times to either "Melba" or the head man MR.BILLY SHAVER....and their voice mail didn't kick in. Finally I got Melba on the phone and she said, there was a screw up on their end...duh, no kidding y'all are plain screwed up. Don said they would send it out ASAP and that was LAST Thursday...tomorrow it will be one week. I finally got Don back on the phone and read him the riot act. I told him in no uncertain terms that their customer service sucked! and it does. I asked him how he would feel if he were in my shoes....I send you folks emails and get no damn response; you have never followed up any of your sales with phone calls to the customers to see how they are liking their new Shaver? Are you having any problems that you need assistance on?" None of that happens...he told me that "yes, I we should treat ALL the customers just as we would want to be treated." and I asked him, well why aren't you folks doing this? NO answer. :bash: (this is my "favorite" non-smiley)
"Supposedly" they aqre overnight shipping that blower motor...I'll believe it when t shows up on my door step.
Sorry Beeman, didn't mean to get off on a tangent.....again with Shaver. So to answer your question, the mods are going no where. I will have to re-think the mounting of that auto damper though because the pex line runs pretty close to the blower motor.
Lugnut
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have you seen the auto damper that powerstroke has in general discussion :thumbup:
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have you seen the auto damper that powerstroke has in general discussion :thumbup:
Yes I have, in fact I've been wanting to print it off and just did. That's a slick deal, but a bit pricey for me, although had I come on this site BEFORE I fired up the Shaver, I would have had ALL this mods working by now and would be able to lend my hand and mind in assistance...but nooooooo...I'm sitting waiting on parts and then will hopefully get all hooked up/fabricated before the first snow storm.
I'm seriously considering tossing that chunk of steel that shaver mounted the solenoid on and ordering up a flap with rubber from altheating.com Then I will have to come back and pick everyone's minds on the wiring of the auto damper/ Ranco/and blower motor.
I'm trying something tonight to see what happens regarding the burning of my wood. For some reason, unbeknownst to me....the t-stat is not shutting the blower motor off...oh wait, I take that back..the blower motor was NOT running this morning. So I closed the slide cover all the way on the blower and went i the house and watched the Packers whoop up on the "kitty cats." When I arrived home around 6pm I decided to turn the blower off altogether and just crack the ash door just a wee bit..."maybe" this will slow down the burning of the wood....I really need to get that auto damper and need to get it hooked up. This i feel is why I'm going through too much wood....because either the fan is running all the time or most of the time.
Well, that about does it for me...I do have smoke coming from out of the chimney of the furnace, so this is good and the pex is hot and this is good...now, I just want to go out to the furnace in the morning and find wood still smoldering, yet hot and not spent wood and merely ashes.
Sheesh...my fingers just won't stop typing....."sorry."
Lugnut
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Here is a picture of lugnut's blower and damper setup.
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here is mine
Beeman mine has a rubber gasket on bottom to help make a good seal. Will try to post pic
Mike,
How about posting a photo for us little folks of how you have your solenoid attached to the rear wall...I presume, of the furnace. I will be ordering up a more suitable flapper soon to take the place of the plate steel that I have on the Shaver unit.
Lugnut
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Hi lugnut
can you send me the info and pictures of the auto damper you have and anyone elese have any pictures and planes
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Interesting sound this morning when I went out to add wood to the burner. PRIOR to my opening the fire box door, I shut off the fan from the switch on the front outer right hand side of the furnace; when I do this I "always" hear the fall per door closing....this morning I did not hear the door closing, yet the fan was on...which meant the door flipped back upon itself too far and remained open ALL night! :bash: :bash: I will take care of that little issue in a while by screwing in an "L" bracket just above the flap so that it can not go back any further. There is the plastic hose on the chain, but apparently it is not long enough. I REALLY need to get this damper thing turned 90 * this Spring.
Sergeant...look around here on the thread and you will find a photo or two of my damper...BUT do NOT mount it horizontal like I have it...mine is this way for a reason. It SHOULD be mounted vertically!
Lugnut
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Hi lugnut
can you send me the info and pictures of the auto damper you have and anyone elese have any pictures and planes
Solenoid is attached to a piece of flat bar welded to back of boiler right above fan. Flat bar bent on 90 deg at end to attach solenoid. Turn buckle used to attach so you have adjustment to set fan opening.
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here is mine
Beeman mine has a rubber gasket on bottom to help make a good seal. Will try to post pic
Mike,
Can you post a photo or two of how and where you have the solenoid attached? My blower as you know from previous posts/photos is mounted this way, but the solenoid is also mounted "horizontally" . this coming Spring I want to change this around so it will work more efficiently...as there is no room below the supply line to mount vertically.
Lugnut
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Hi lugnut
can you send me the info and pictures of the auto damper you have and anyone elese have any pictures and planes
Solenoid is attached to a piece of flat bar welded to back of boiler right above fan. Flat bar bent on 90 deg at end to attach solenoid. Turn buckle used to attach so you have adjustment to set fan opening.
How did you do that? I asked if you could post a photo of where and how...and here it is and you're not even online. It's....why it's magic! :thumbup:
Lugnut
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My factory setup
(http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=225)
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Whoa....look at this. I think you may have found my answer. I think I might be able to turn the darn motor around and just shorten the plate that the solenoid in mounted to. Why didn't I think of this sooner? So, silly question here...how do you determine how to set the solenoid as to the proper opening? as I already know..via personal experience, if it is kept from opening on its own the way it should, they burn up. :bash:
The temps are to be warm today, wonder if I should take a stab at doing this now or waiting until Spring. I'll go shower and think about it.
Thanks Ed.
Jerry
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Hi lugnut
can you send me the info and pictures of the auto damper you have and anyone elese have any pictures and planes
Solenoid is attached to a piece of flat bar welded to back of boiler right above fan. Flat bar bent on 90 deg at end to attach solenoid. Turn buckle used to attach so you have adjustment to set fan opening.
How did you do that? I asked if you could post a photo of where and how...and here it is and you're not even online. It's....why it's magic! :thumbup:
Lugnut
What can i say. :)
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Whoa....look at this. I think you may have found my answer. I think I might be able to turn the darn motor around and just shorten the plate that the solenoid in mounted to. Why didn't I think of this sooner? So, silly question here...how do you determine how to set the solenoid as to the proper opening? as I already know..via personal experience, if it is kept from opening on its own the way it should, they burn up. :bash:
The temps are to be warm today, wonder if I should take a stab at doing this now or waiting until Spring. I'll go shower and think about it.
Thanks Ed.
Jerry
Jerry,
That's the way it came mounted from factory, except I rotated the electric motor (not blower) to better access the wires. When it opens it's about a third of being totally open. Plenty for the cycle and shuts right when up to temp.
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What if you turn the blow on a 30 degree angle you would have to drill new holes on the flang
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What if you turn the blow on a 30 degree angle you would have to drill new holes on the flang
Yes you would have to redrill
and depending whether Shaver used a true template or some shop guy to drill the holes, you may not even be able to rotate it 90 mor 180 without redrilling.
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One other thing I noticed, as I did re-drill the flange holes...the second grader who built my furnace did NOT get the pipe coming out of the ash box straight...so I have a bit of an angle to my pipe. That was fun lining up as well.
Ed, they must have made improvements ??? on my solenoid plate as it is about 8" long. Yours is quite a bit shorter and no, I did not mess with it yesterday. Cold weather and snow is approaching later on Thursday....today almost. guess this will have to wait until Spring. We'll see. Say, can you measure for me the bottom of the plate to the top of it? Maybe all I have to do is cut mine off. But wait, did you order yours from the "factory" as optional equipment? Mine was "supposed to come from the "factory" that way, but the third grader who does the work orders missed reading class that day. :bash:
Jerry
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Jerry,
Came from the factory that way. I will measure for you, I'm away right now but will get it on Saturday for you.
Ed
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Jerry,
Came from the factory that way. I will measure for you, I'm away right now but will get it on Saturday for you.
Ed
Saturday works well for me Ed...it and I are NOT going anywhere.
Jerry
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Jerry,
8 1/4" from bottom radius to top.
(http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=236)
Ed
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What about the CFM's I just got the 75cfm moter and installed it. Ive been finding that if the wood is a little wet the 75 cfm motor
seems to nock the fire down it seems to work better with the 50 cfm motor am I crazy ?
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What about the CFM's I just got the 75cfm moter and installed it. Ive been finding that if the wood is a little wet the 75 cfm motor
seems to nock the fire down it seems to work better with the 50 cfm motor am I crazy ?
You could just adjust the flapper if your going to burn green wood. return it to normal when back to seasoned wood.
Ed
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Thanks Treewinder, ill try that how much of a gap 1"
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Jerry,
8 1/4" from bottom radius to top.
(http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=236)
Ed
Thanks Ed......we have the same size plate. So did I read y our post incorrectly...you flipped the electric motor, NOT the blower? You've seen a close up of my blower/motor...I really don't have any choice but to wait until Spring to have a nipple installed in the pex line above the blower motor in order to raise it higher so I can flip the damper plate vertical. Unless you ore someone else on here can come up with an alternative plan.... I do know that tomorrow, I have to go out a buy another 5" of plastic tube as I cut mine back a bit trying to modify the opening.
Jerry
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Jerry,
Yea I'd just wait till spring, it looks like your going to have to reroute your electric also. Besides gravity holding the flap close, the right length of the plastic hose shoves it tight to reduce un-needed draft flow.
Ed
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Jerry,
Yea I'd just wait till spring, it looks like your going to have to reroute your electric also. Besides gravity holding the flap close, the right length of the plastic hose shoves it tight to reduce un-needed draft flow.
Ed
Ed,
Quick question. What is the length of the tube and the ID/OD? I went to Fleet Farm yesterday with a 6" length of chain, the same as what it on the Shaver and I "thought" I fond the correct size, but decided to verify the size when I arrived home instead of having to make another trip. I measured the existing hose for ID/OD and I'm coming up with 5/8 od and 1/2 ID...is this correct on your end?
I'm "hoping" my furnace is idling now because when I went out earlier to throw some wood in the box, for a first time in a very long while, the blower was not running. Will look outside again in a bit and see if the old boy is smoking again. The temps here today are down right cold. "JUST" above 0 with the wind chills at about -20. sure don't need a blower motor taking a dump on me. I do have an extra pump, but no extra solenoid or blower. Guess I should gather one of each up and soon. :-(
Jerry
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I'll check this weekend, but maybe not needed an exact replacment just one that is ridgid ebough to help close the gate.
You can always force the fan to run by temporary increase in your aquastat. I do that on occasion.