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1
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Optimizer 250
« on: January 27, 2014, 10:23:12 PM »
Thanks Slim Jim, I bet the flash back from unburnt gasses cause my nozzle to break down. A high impact of gasses coming from the refractory could cause a concussion severe enough to crack the brick. May have two problems solved by making sure the gasses are gone before opening.
One other thing that I have done that helped a bit is, I drilled a hole about 1/8 in the bottom of the air intake damper box. Water did drain for a while and when it quit I should have figured out that the hole was likely plugged with creosote. I drilled it to help keep the fire going between demands. The only thing with this is it is a trade off. I do smell some smoke for a while now after the fan has gone off. Lack of air and I think it may also cause a bit more creosote. Although probably negligible.
Thanks for the advice renoman. I think I will try my cable idea first and then head for the hardware store if my idea doesn't work. I will post about the cable cleaner after I build it. Have to wait for the time to do my prototype.
One other thing that I have done that helped a bit is, I drilled a hole about 1/8 in the bottom of the air intake damper box. Water did drain for a while and when it quit I should have figured out that the hole was likely plugged with creosote. I drilled it to help keep the fire going between demands. The only thing with this is it is a trade off. I do smell some smoke for a while now after the fan has gone off. Lack of air and I think it may also cause a bit more creosote. Although probably negligible.
Thanks for the advice renoman. I think I will try my cable idea first and then head for the hardware store if my idea doesn't work. I will post about the cable cleaner after I build it. Have to wait for the time to do my prototype.
2
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Optimizer 250
« on: January 27, 2014, 09:55:19 PM »
Thanks for all the advice. I do believe that my stove is too big for the temperature coefficient in this area. I heat our house that is 3400 sq ft my work shop that is 2000 sq with a 16' ceiling and an 800 sq ft guest house on the end of the shop. Sounds like lots but if it is around 0 C the heater doesn't work hard enough. Brian Martin told me to open a dead zone. I have done that a few times just to try it but I hate heating the outdoors.
I am not talking through my hat. I built my own stove for a cost of $600 in 1997. It used 4 cords of wood a winter heating about half of what I heat with the optimizer which burns about 6 cords. My home built stove took almost no care. Shovel the ash out every 2 or 3 weeks and run a brush down the chimney 1 in the middle of the winter and again in the spring. No nozzle to worry about no vertical pipes and the creosote would roll off the sides of the heater and burn up when I really opened it up.
I am a bit embarrassed when my close friend who has a house very similar to ours says he burns 2 1/2 cords and never has any problems with his little Blaze King stove made in Penticton. They won a world award for the best inside stove in the world.
I spent a fortune on this stove so I could have a clean house, heat 2 buildings 100' apart and not have my neighbours complain about smoke in the air.
I have it now and have worked hard to get it optimized, the reason for its name. I would like to get the most out of my investment without heating the outdoors and burning another 4 or 5 cords.
I think I will have to train my wife not to open the stove when it is just finished its burn as suggested. That will make life a bit better. She is a fire bug and loves feeding the stove except when it erupts.
What is different about the updated air box cover? My door gasket is still in good shape but if they have a silicone gasket I should get one. I built a silicone gasket for the stove I built. It worked good but was a pain to make. I need more brushes anyhow. they are getting really beat. I have considered trying to make some out of cat winch cable but haven't tried yet. The quality of the steel is the best for abrasion resistance.
Do you guys know of a picture of that air box cover? Is it easily exchangeable? Does it have a definite advantage?
I am not talking through my hat. I built my own stove for a cost of $600 in 1997. It used 4 cords of wood a winter heating about half of what I heat with the optimizer which burns about 6 cords. My home built stove took almost no care. Shovel the ash out every 2 or 3 weeks and run a brush down the chimney 1 in the middle of the winter and again in the spring. No nozzle to worry about no vertical pipes and the creosote would roll off the sides of the heater and burn up when I really opened it up.
I am a bit embarrassed when my close friend who has a house very similar to ours says he burns 2 1/2 cords and never has any problems with his little Blaze King stove made in Penticton. They won a world award for the best inside stove in the world.
I spent a fortune on this stove so I could have a clean house, heat 2 buildings 100' apart and not have my neighbours complain about smoke in the air.
I have it now and have worked hard to get it optimized, the reason for its name. I would like to get the most out of my investment without heating the outdoors and burning another 4 or 5 cords.
I think I will have to train my wife not to open the stove when it is just finished its burn as suggested. That will make life a bit better. She is a fire bug and loves feeding the stove except when it erupts.
What is different about the updated air box cover? My door gasket is still in good shape but if they have a silicone gasket I should get one. I built a silicone gasket for the stove I built. It worked good but was a pain to make. I need more brushes anyhow. they are getting really beat. I have considered trying to make some out of cat winch cable but haven't tried yet. The quality of the steel is the best for abrasion resistance.
Do you guys know of a picture of that air box cover? Is it easily exchangeable? Does it have a definite advantage?
3
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Optimizer 250
« on: January 27, 2014, 01:33:16 PM »
Thanks for the offer of help.
I could still not be doing something quite right and someone could give me a suggestion to steer me out of my grief.
I have mentioned my problems un my posts.
The flames and smoke coming out the door when adding wood is likely the worst. I can put up with lots but when it happens to my wife it really gets me upset.
I have been cleaning the stove every week this year and it really helps. I used to do it every second week. The horizontal pipe is easy and hasn't ever given me any problems. Once I had to use a tiger torch to burn some creosote out of the horizontal pipes. The wood was pitchy fir and even with the down draft second burn it caused problems.
The vertical pipes probably since that episode have been very hard to run the brush through. I tried to burn the remaining crust out of the 2" vertical pipes but no success. The original cable brush rod is very bent now from my pushing and pulling the brush through. I have built a 1/2 pipe rod that works well on the horizontal and I have tried to make work for the vertical pipes but the collector above the pipes makes everything difficult. I built another cable rod and attached it to my drill but the torque was too much for the cable. In the spring I plan on soaking the vertical pipes with diesel and hopefully cleaning out this baked on creosote.
My fan collector cover is held on with 5/16 screws. A couple of these got so rusty I had to replace them already, but that is not a big deal. What is is the fact that creosote builds up in the air box on the top of the firebox and runs down into the fan collector causing the fan air damper to stick shut and not open. I have had to clean this out twice this winter, the last time this morning. That is why I came to this site, pissed. The last time I cleaned it out I drilled a 1/8 hole in the air damper to allow air to in to keep the fire going because it was dyeing if the stove had no demand for over 2 hours. I also adjusted my thermostats in out 2 buildings so that one or the other would demand heat within 2 hours. But when the weather is around 0 there isn't demand to have the stove cut in. I also adjusted the water temp differential to 2 degrees from4. I think this may cause more creosote because the fire box doesn't have time to get good and hot. It was happening before though too and we don't have to go out and light the fire as often now.
If we lived in an area with more hardwood it would likely be better but you have to deal with what you have.
So if you guys can think of anything that may help please post.
Thanks
I could still not be doing something quite right and someone could give me a suggestion to steer me out of my grief.
I have mentioned my problems un my posts.
The flames and smoke coming out the door when adding wood is likely the worst. I can put up with lots but when it happens to my wife it really gets me upset.
I have been cleaning the stove every week this year and it really helps. I used to do it every second week. The horizontal pipe is easy and hasn't ever given me any problems. Once I had to use a tiger torch to burn some creosote out of the horizontal pipes. The wood was pitchy fir and even with the down draft second burn it caused problems.
The vertical pipes probably since that episode have been very hard to run the brush through. I tried to burn the remaining crust out of the 2" vertical pipes but no success. The original cable brush rod is very bent now from my pushing and pulling the brush through. I have built a 1/2 pipe rod that works well on the horizontal and I have tried to make work for the vertical pipes but the collector above the pipes makes everything difficult. I built another cable rod and attached it to my drill but the torque was too much for the cable. In the spring I plan on soaking the vertical pipes with diesel and hopefully cleaning out this baked on creosote.
My fan collector cover is held on with 5/16 screws. A couple of these got so rusty I had to replace them already, but that is not a big deal. What is is the fact that creosote builds up in the air box on the top of the firebox and runs down into the fan collector causing the fan air damper to stick shut and not open. I have had to clean this out twice this winter, the last time this morning. That is why I came to this site, pissed. The last time I cleaned it out I drilled a 1/8 hole in the air damper to allow air to in to keep the fire going because it was dyeing if the stove had no demand for over 2 hours. I also adjusted my thermostats in out 2 buildings so that one or the other would demand heat within 2 hours. But when the weather is around 0 there isn't demand to have the stove cut in. I also adjusted the water temp differential to 2 degrees from4. I think this may cause more creosote because the fire box doesn't have time to get good and hot. It was happening before though too and we don't have to go out and light the fire as often now.
If we lived in an area with more hardwood it would likely be better but you have to deal with what you have.
So if you guys can think of anything that may help please post.
Thanks
4
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Optimizer 250
« on: January 27, 2014, 11:31:37 AM »
I talked to Brian a couple of times in the first season. Don't know whom you are. Brian on the u tube video is not very accurate, he told me I needed to burn nice dry hardwood, so I got some really well seasoned birch. It was a bit better but nothing like he had the stove running, wiping the ash off the inside of the firebox door . He ran the stove himself and said it took a while to find out exactly what the air setting were. I have worked at getting them to what I feel are optimum but high humidity is not this stoves friend. I was also told that the stove could be run on solar. Foolish me all I had to do was add up the amount of watts used per day and the amount of sunny days we have, even with my huge battery bank and 390 watt solar panels I cant run the stove for more than 2 days and my inverter is squealing. This the BC not the prairies where the sun shines more in he winter. The stove I built was naturally aspirated and updraft. This stove would be much more efficient if the refractory was behind the firebox. The vertical 2" pipes could be made easier to brush out, I am sure. The absolutely best thing about the stove is I will never hear my neighbours complain about wood smoke smell. One of my neighbours has a updraft stove and you can smell smoke when it first gets going.
Just read your new post Slim and James, thank you. I would have to truck oak or beach in, not an option. There is some birch around here. I own 160 acres of hill side. About 2% birch. I could use all birch and be out in 1 to 2 years.
Believe me I know about wear and tear. I am was a diamond drill contractor and built almost all my own equipment and did all my own repairs. Like I said I built my own stove. 10 to 20% more wood is easier and less expensive than this stove PERIOD.
Just read your new post Slim and James, thank you. I would have to truck oak or beach in, not an option. There is some birch around here. I own 160 acres of hill side. About 2% birch. I could use all birch and be out in 1 to 2 years.
Believe me I know about wear and tear. I am was a diamond drill contractor and built almost all my own equipment and did all my own repairs. Like I said I built my own stove. 10 to 20% more wood is easier and less expensive than this stove PERIOD.
5
Portage & Main / Re: What to do when our optimizer 250 won't gasify?
« on: January 27, 2014, 10:40:30 AM »
Check my posts. You likely have a sticking air intake. I would suggest taking your box cover off about a dozen 5/16 screws, mine gets water and creosote build up and won't work properly or not at all. Moist air causes the water to condense in the heater right around 0 C If not that is your refractory clean and your pipes all clean. If I where to do this again I would buy a updraft heater.
6
Portage & Main / Re: What to do when our optimizer 250 won't gasify?
« on: January 27, 2014, 10:30:42 AM »
Brian told me to keep my PH at 9. My stove came with 1 bottle of stove chemical. I added that to my rain water and the ph came up to 8.9 and I have tested it yearly and has stayed the same. Brian said to send a sample in yearly but I have a tester and don't think that I want to spend the money every year for shipping. With my stove cleaning the vertical tubes and creosote build up especially in the fan box are the biggest problems. A blast of fire and smoke when filling with wood also not nice at all.
7
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Optimizer 250
« on: January 27, 2014, 10:17:56 AM »
I read a couple of posts made by people that had a optimizer 250 and some of the problems they have had.
I built my own hot water heater about 15 years ago and was forced by insurance companies to change to a certified heater even though I had great reviews from inspectors.
I decided that the downdraft Optimizer 250 was the best built and lowest emissions stove and bought one. Total cost by the time I had it running was about $17,000, me doing the work.
I expected a learning curve and was willing to go through a few problems to get there, but after almost 4 years I am writing because I am not happy. I like the efficiency and the quality of the build but don't like many other things about the stove.
The fellows threads that I read where problems with creosote coming out the firebox door. I thought that my wood was not good enough because it is not hardwood, but to hear of guys burning hardwood having creosote problems tells me there is a design problem for sure with this stove.
I have talked to Rory and Brian Martin the fellow showing the stove on u tube. They have both told me it is just the air settings and possibly my wood not being dry enough.
I am using the driest Fir, Larch mix that is possible, have birch/fir for next winter. Still creosote and water coming out of my fan collector box. When you add wood, unless the stove has burned almost out you get a blast of fire and smoke while doing so and cleaning the vertical 2" pipes coming off the refractory are designed to give a person a really good work out and skinned knuckles. If I kick the bucket my wife will never be able to clean them.
I have another problem to address, the special brick that goes from the fire box to refractory is disintegrating. Good thing I bought a spare with the furnace.
I built my own hot water heater about 15 years ago and was forced by insurance companies to change to a certified heater even though I had great reviews from inspectors.
I decided that the downdraft Optimizer 250 was the best built and lowest emissions stove and bought one. Total cost by the time I had it running was about $17,000, me doing the work.
I expected a learning curve and was willing to go through a few problems to get there, but after almost 4 years I am writing because I am not happy. I like the efficiency and the quality of the build but don't like many other things about the stove.
The fellows threads that I read where problems with creosote coming out the firebox door. I thought that my wood was not good enough because it is not hardwood, but to hear of guys burning hardwood having creosote problems tells me there is a design problem for sure with this stove.
I have talked to Rory and Brian Martin the fellow showing the stove on u tube. They have both told me it is just the air settings and possibly my wood not being dry enough.
I am using the driest Fir, Larch mix that is possible, have birch/fir for next winter. Still creosote and water coming out of my fan collector box. When you add wood, unless the stove has burned almost out you get a blast of fire and smoke while doing so and cleaning the vertical 2" pipes coming off the refractory are designed to give a person a really good work out and skinned knuckles. If I kick the bucket my wife will never be able to clean them.
I have another problem to address, the special brick that goes from the fire box to refractory is disintegrating. Good thing I bought a spare with the furnace.
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