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[blwnsmoke]

Although I agree to an extent to not hold my breath, I really can't see how they can blame any of this as operator error.  Not to repeat myself but here are the facts again

1) Manual states nothing on what happens if unit loses power.
2) Manual does not give any steps, precautions or warnings.
3) Back Burn mode did not kick in during the 14-18 hours it ran.
4) Thermostatic valve did not activate which is supposed to even during a power loss.
5) Thermostatic valve tube was clogged with pellets (impossible for operator error to do this as it is sealed to the auger chamber).

Just based on those 5 things alone, not one of them is put on a consumer and I think the courts would agree.  I took a bunch more pictures prior to dropping it off at my dealer inacse I have to fight them with it in their possession.

The only thing that I can say the manufacturer could put on me is if the soot level was really bad inside the burn chamber which is wasn't.  I had cleaned the unit out prior to the weekend because of the snow storm coming and expecting power outages.  It was cleaned, scraped and filled full of pellets the day before.  Everything else is internal mechanics and has nothing to do with the consumer.

The fact that I had poured water inside 3 different occassions, it rippled metal and burned the powdercoating off the hopper tells you right there how long it had been burning above the auger and how hot it was down at the bottom.  Again, no back burn mode or thermo valve activated.

[martyinmi]

I guess in this life we have many choices. I choose to be an optimist......most of the time anyway. I still believe CB is one of the  best manufacturers out there, and it sounds as if you've got all of your ducks lined up, so there really shouldn't be a problem. I know when my friend's 5648 rotted through, he was up and running in less than a week- and his boiler was on it's 8'th year, so the "bumper to bumper" part of his warranty had expired. They really went the extra mile for him, and they should do the same for you. You've got enough on your plate right now, and you'll hear no pessimism from me. Great to hear things are going well.

   Marty
 

[Scott7m]

Hey Marty, any word on why your buddy's boiler rotted out in just 8 years???

[martyinmi]

He went the last two or three years without cleaning out the burn chamber when he was done burning for the year, and in that same time frame, he failed to cover the stack in the off season. I was really shocked when he informed me that he could get a new one for only 3 grand. In my opinion, it was definitely operator error that caused it's early failure. That's why I'm a CB fan. I question how efficient their ripple top boilers are, but I think you can give up some efficiency knowing you have probably the best warranty out there.

[Scott7m]

Thats good Marty, that's why I wanted to get with heatmaster is stories like that.  I personally saw the company go out of the way to help when they didn't have to and that impressed me.  Then how they give your your water test tubes complete with shipping labels you really don't have an excuse not to test and they go out of there way by sending reminders in the mail each year reminding customers to test there water.

[Ridgekid]

Any updates?

[blwnsmoke]

Spoke to my dealer today, the stove has been rebuilt and has been ready just waiting on a truck to come up here.  It is being put on a truck Monday and the only charge I am responsible for is the shipping charge (roughly $250). 

I will thoroughly inspect it before accepting it from my dealer to insure it is back to "new" condition as far as parts replaced from melting, staining and peeling.  I did ask my dealer if they found the cause and he said he didn't know.  I told him that if I have to call direct, I will but I want to know the cause before I pick it up.  If they are saying "we fixed it but have no idea what happened" then this basically tells me they didn't "fix" the issue and it can happen again.  He understood and said he'd try to find out.  He also said that he wasn't sure how I was cleaning it because I didn't have a brush for the heat exchangers essentially saying that it is possible that I wasn't cleaning it well enough which I think is BS as I cleaned it out weekly and dumped the ash as well as scrapped the exchangers out with a metal scraper I was given with the stove. 

Anyways, I feel that my dealer unintentionally of course caused part of this burn down.  If you look at this first picture, you will see the small glass window.  Below that window is a metal 90* elbow that connects to a clear tube via a clamp.  This runs down to the bottom and connects to thermovalve that gravity feeds water into the burn chamber in the even it sense a fire via too high temps in the chamber.  On the other side of this window is the opening which was clogged by a burnt pellet as well as 2 regular pellets sitting halfway down the clear tube.  If the thermovalve activated, it would not have been able to dump water in because of the clog.  This is the part that is required by CB for the dealer to install.





The next picture is of my dealer's demo unit that he loaned me to use while mine was at the manufacturer.  IF you look at the window, you will see there is no 90* elbow.  It is just the tube that connects to the plate.




This last picture is of the plate removed.  You will see that the 90* elbow is on the INSIDE of the chamber, not outside.  It also has the 90* elbow pointing directly down into the burn champer.  This clearly allows water to dump down into the chamber correctly and does not allow the tube or hole on the plate to get clogged.  The part that was clogged is the small hole that the tube is connected to in this picture.  Just picture the plate reversed or 180* turned around.



So although I still believe there was a failure somewhere that caused it to melt down, I believe it was dealer error in installing the plate backwards allowsing it to clog.  I will be discussing with my dealer when I stop by to look at my boiler.  If the whole route of the problem was this, then I will be looking at my dealer to cover the delivery fee.

I'm still not going to drop this even though CB repaired my stove.  I still want answers on what happened, what failed, why I didn't get a Back Burn alarm on the control panel.. why didn't the disk inside activate the Back Burn alarm.

I did notice that the clear tube was bone dry.  If the thermovalve activated, I would think there would have been water in the clear tube to the point of the burnt pellet but there wasn't.  Not quite sure what to think.. I could blame the dealer on a bad install but that bad install wouldn't have caused the burn down if the thermovalve still didn't activate. 

I found something quite interesting..  Not 1 1/2 weeks after contacting CB on this issue did I get a packet in the mail with a letter addressed to all M250 owners.  In it, it talked about some safety tips as well as how to clean the stove out properly and some caution stickers along with pictures on where to place these stickers.  Seems quite the coincidence that after notifying them of a burn down, all M250 owners got this packet sent to them. 

I still feel there is a failure on CB's side of warning all of us about the steps to take icase of a Buack Burn or power failure.  Again, there is zero talk about either of these in any manual or brochure as well as zero warning stickers or notes. 

[Ridgekid]

So If I understand correctly, the dealer is responsible for installing that plate/window? Or could if of come form the factory that way?

[Scott7m]

I think at this point you are looking for answers your never going to get, I don't think anyone no matter whether it be the dealer or company will be able to tell you "why".

As far as the company, they probably just replaced all the damaged parts and just chalked it up as user error and went on with it

I'd just be Leary of any answers at this point, cause from what I'm seeing/gathering it's all speculation.

If your dealer loaned you a unit to use while yours was repaired that's rather impressive.

[blwnsmoke]

So If I understand correctly, the dealer is responsible for installing that plate/window? Or could if of come form the factory that way?

I will ask him when I see him.  From what CB said, the dealer is responsible for installing the thermovalve..  That is all that I know.  I don't know whether it is just the valve or if it is the valve, tube and window, or just the valve and tube.  When I see my dealer in person, I'll discuss with him while we are looking at it.  I think it is best that way to compare the two.  After talking with CB I had asked my dealer if he installed the valve and he said yes (this was prior to me seeing his reversed).

[blwnsmoke]

I think at this point you are looking for answers your never going to get, I don't think anyone no matter whether it be the dealer or company will be able to tell you "why".

As far as the company, they probably just replaced all the damaged parts and just chalked it up as user error and went on with it

I'd just be Leary of any answers at this point, cause from what I'm seeing/gathering it's all speculation.

If your dealer loaned you a unit to use while yours was repaired that's rather impressive.

I have a feeling that will be the outcome.  My first question that I want answered is who installed the window incorrectly.  I'm not out for blood although as I said, I'm concerned about it happening again.  For the past two months, I've been dumping 2-3 bags of pellets in my hopper daily as opposed to putting 12 bags in and going 4-5 days because of that very reason, I don't want it to catch fire with 500 lbs of pellets inside.  At least this way, 50-100 lbs is nothing to be concerned about but it is really unfortunate that I am this nervous about it not knowing.

And yes, my dealer gave me his personal M250 demo unit to use.  Granted I had to pick it up and install it but that was because he was afraid of sinking in my grass because the ground wasn't frozen.  I ended up using a bobcat to load/unload and hook it up on my slab myself.

My dealer has been fantastic, he feels really bad that this happened and has appologized several times.  I can't say anything bad about him.  I think he felt really bad that I had 10 tons of pellets sitting in my backyard and I wouldn't be able to burn them so he offered it up.  Many thanks to him for that!!

[Scott7m]

Any news on this topic??

[pwdiver]

I wish you the best with your boiler when you get it back, I sure have liked my CL5036 just wish I could get my door issue straight.  My dealer act's like the door if replaced will cost him. He told me 400+ dollars to replace. I just want this fixed. You might want to install some form of smoke detector / heat detector I have a manual wind up heat detector that was left  at my house when I bought it that will trigger at 150 degree's you might be able to find one on Ebay.

[blwnsmoke]

So my dealer emailed me Tuesday saying it just arrived at his shop (an hour away from me).  I asked him he would mind bringing it to me in which he had no problem doing that.  My hope was to have it do it because I had to travel an hour each way to go pick up a bobcat to move it (brother in laws) from slab to bed of truck and back so I was hoping to minimize any more travel.

Dealer brought it by at noon time today..  I am absolutely amazed and impressed with CB right now.  Lets start with the outside..  I can't tell if all the panels were replaced or if they stripped it and repowdercoated it but all 4 sides including the top looks brand new.  They put a new door on, new gaskets (remember this was only a year old boiler).  Obviously they put a new firestar control board in.  Now here is where the amazement starts..  They replaced all electronics and mechanics inside the electrical area.  We are talking wires, fan, pellet auger, fire chamber auger.. EVERYTHING!!  The pellet chamber was completely redone, all new coatings inside of it.  You would never be able to tell that this ever caught fire. 

Now my dealer is just amazing..  Besides giving me his demo to use, he drove it to my house for free, gave me a free gallon of the rust inhibitor and test kit.  He did not charge me for the 2 hours he was here with me helping install it.  When I told him I left him a bag and a half of pellets in his demo, he said, "you shouldn't have done that.. I'm not worried about it".  The fact that I used his pellets that were in his unit (leftover) and didn't want me to replace them..  It's just the little things that really mean a lot and a loyal customer.

Here are pictures of the boiler back on my slab.













Now here is the interesting part..  CB completely changed the design of the thermovalve...  When did they change this design you may ask..  well, my dealer started getting the new design in December which is a month after they got my burned down boiler at the factory..  Coincidence or more of an Oh Sh%t decision??

If you look where my finger is pointing to, they now have it drilled/tapped and injected directly in instead of a 90* elbow below the glass window.




End result, still no answer from CB yet on what went wrong but the fact that they replaced everything makes me feel more comfortable about using it.. afterall,  if nothing was left, whatever failed is no longer there.. maybe that is why they did replace everything.

Im going to send him a giftcard out to a nice restaurant for him and his wife for all he has done for me.. I think it is the least I can do for him.

[Ridgekid]

Absolutely awesome. Are you sure it's not a NEW furnace?  That thing looks great!!!!

Makes me proud to be a CB owner.  Thanks for sharing!!