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[MattyNH]

soooooo....woodman....i dunno...30 years is ANCIENT!!!! in MY books...lol...30 years...wasnt that before electricity???  boilerman was only 70 yrs old 30  years ago

so given that open atmosphere is relatively new technology...what do you think of stainless for the open boiler systems....is it the oxygen introduced that is the problem??  or the temperature swings???  or does it all come back to the "chief boiler engineer" and maintenance??  thx...vs

I honestly don't know. I think the only way we are getting away with these open systems is due to the chemistry of the water treatments. I think water chemistry and a properly grounded unit  is huge no matter what the boiler is made of. That said I own a 409 stainless boiler and have 5 seasons behind me. When I scratch around in the firebox the metal still looks like new.

Closed system way to go..No worries of what is discussed on this thread.. I Own a Aqua-therm..going on six yrs this yr..Yes its stainless steal...I have no worries about oxygen in my water jacket, water treatments.etc.. Its a sealed system like my oil boiler..

[vagabonddreamer]

MattyNH throws ANOTHER spanner into the works...closed system...

so it operates under pressure??  have you posted any specific info on your system MattyHN??  my burner has a vent...on the back...that whistles occasionally...lol...should i just put a cork in it???  (i know i know...i am really leaving myself open on this one)

and woodman adds "properly grounding" the burner....something i never considered...are you inferring the use of  "grounding" as in the same thing as grounding your electrical panel??  is this to prevent electrolysis??

sigh...more and more complicated...so much info...and all very GOOD info...file it away in the archives for future use...

boilerman...you prolly are not even close to 100 years old...i just had a laugh in your previous post where you correlated your age to the use of less wood...lol...

[MattyNH]

MattyNH throws ANOTHER spanner into the works...closed system...

so it operates under pressure??  have you posted any specific info on your system MattyHN??  my burner has a vent...on the back...that whistles occasionally...lol...should i just put a cork in it???  (i know i know...i am really leaving myself open on this one)

and woodman adds "properly grounding" the burner....something i never considered...are you inferring the use of  "grounding" as in the same thing as grounding your electrical panel??  is this to prevent electrolysis??

sigh...more and more complicated...so much info...and all very GOOD info...file it away in the archives for future use...

boilerman...you prolly are not even close to 100 years old...i just had a laugh in your previous post where you correlated your age to the use of less wood...lol...

I can tell you have no clue about hydronics...Look it up on the web sight..The link for the aqua-therm is on this forum..Click on it it..It will tell you all the info you want..

[woodman]

MattyNH throws ANOTHER spanner into the works...closed system...

so it operates under pressure??  have you posted any specific info on your system MattyHN??  my burner has a vent...on the back...that whistles occasionally...lol...should i just put a cork in it???  (i know i know...i am really leaving myself open on this one)

and woodman adds "properly grounding" the burner....something i never considered...are you inferring the use of  "grounding" as in the same thing as grounding your electrical panel??  is this to prevent electrolysis??

sigh...more and more complicated...so much info...and all very GOOD info...file it away in the archives for future use...

boilerman...you prolly are not even close to 100 years old...i just had a laugh in your previous post where you correlated your age to the use of less wood...lol...

Yes, I installed a seperate ground rod next to the boiler and have it attached to the framework of the unit. This is to prevent electrolysis and is a warrenty requirement. 

[vagabonddreamer]

 ::)MattyNH....the list is LONG and diverse as to things I have no clue about...I will just chalk hydronics up as ANOTHER...I will read about the aqua-therm...one thing about having not much in my head...there is plenty 'o' room to put stuff in...lol...vs

[muffin]

MattyNH throws ANOTHER spanner into the works...closed system...

so it operates under pressure??  have you posted any specific info on your system MattyHN??  my burner has a vent...on the back...that whistles occasionally...lol...should i just put a cork in it???  (i know i know...i am really leaving myself open on this one)

and woodman adds "properly grounding" the burner....something i never considered...are you inferring the use of  "grounding" as in the same thing as grounding your electrical panel??  is this to prevent electrolysis??

sigh...more and more complicated...so much info...and all very GOOD info...file it away in the archives for future use...

boilerman...you prolly are not even close to 100 years old...i just had a laugh in your previous post where you correlated your age to the use of less wood...lol...

Is the grounding rod not primarily for lightning protection?  Otherwise you have a big metal lightning attractor feeding your main panel in the house.

[MattyNH]

::)MattyNH....the list is LONG and diverse as to things I have no clue about...I will just chalk hydronics up as ANOTHER...I will read about the aqua-therm...one thing about having not much in my head...there is plenty 'o' room to put stuff in...lol...vs

Wow the list of OWB brand is that long on this forum??..The brands of owb are listed alphabetical order!

[Bull]

Matty, he is saying that the list of things that he knows nothing about is long not the list of OWB. I am in the same boat about things that I know nothing about LOL

[vagabonddreamer]

   Bet I know WAY less about WAY more than YOU Bull!!!!    lol...

the funny thing is...I have been using one of these for 10 years...I really never started to research the entire process until now...the time when I have to replace the unit...dont get me wrong...I have looked up specific elements like what additives (if any) should go into the water...even THAT subject is exhaustively debated...it is the "system" as a whole that I need to figger out...

I realize it is a niche market and that really most knowledge gained is empirical in nature and done through trial and error...but MattyNH had a good point about closed systems...I often wonder if there might be a way to "change" the molecular properties of the water by the use of additives and thereby creating a "pseudo" closed system...I know all kinds of wonderful things happen in hydrology when you pressurize a system...the same as a car or truck engine...vs

[MattyNH]

Im not the the type of person on here to say what brand is the best and never will....Im a huge fan of these OWB's..Way to go, burn wood!.. I do own a closed loop OWB for the last 5 yrs..6th year of heating coming this fall...Being a owner of a closed loop system..I don't have to deal with maintenance of the water like the "open" owb, I have no heat exchangers, can add antifreeze ..My OWB is no different than my oil boiler in my basement except the fuel..Runs the same psi 15-20..Has the same relief valves, everything..Back in '08 lost power for 32 hrs (ice storm)..Had a live fire in my boiler with no circulating water..Never had a problem..To me.. hydronic wise it makes sense..Looking forward to aqua-therm's epa phase 2 stoves soon..( no I'm not a dealer just a satisfied owb user) Burn wood!

[vagabonddreamer]

ok MattyNH...did some reading on Aqua Therm....I get the principle of the closed system...i guess my first question is are there any drawbacks??   I have always laboured under the assumption that if you make something better or best...people will beat a path to your door...and there will be competitors lined up waiting to make patent infringements...I am not speaking "specifically" about Aqua Therm here...I know there are other closed systems (Seton being one I think)...but WHY are not all manufacturers going the direction of closed systems??

I appreciate that you are trying to remain neutral...and I am trying to open my mind and broaden my horizons...I dont mind going off the tried and true if I think there is good reason...also...I am not trying to make you write an advertisement for Aqua Therm..but you seem to know your stuff...can you impart some knowledge??  thx...vs

[MattyNH]

vagabonddreamer.. Yeah your right Seton is a closed loop wood boiler..Buderus also offers a closed loop wood boiler.. Ive actually seen the Buderus hooked up in a basement..Theres another one can't think of the name of it..The guy has it in his garage..Heats his whole house and garage by radiant heat.. Far as drawbacks really can't think of any..Its a sealed system..100% safe
 I have no idea why all manufactures don't have a close loop model..They don't make a "open" oil boiler..Maybe like Central Boiler is big due to advertisement power..Either way the "open" and "closed "system OWB works the same..Its just you need to maintain the water chemistry on the open system and if you don't it will void your warranty!

[woodman]

I think pressured boilers have to be installed by licensed/registered mehanical contractors? Open systems can be installed by anyone (homeowner).

[boilerman]

I think woodman is correct. A pressurized system should be installed and maintained by someone with a pressurized vessel (boiler) license. If not, your insurance company may have an out. I just downloaded a copy of Aquatherm's owners manual. Their warranty is on the back back page.  It states that their "corrosion inhibitor must be used and maintained for Warranty to remain in effect" pretty much looks the same as most of the "open" system mfg's. If you are not using it, you may have problems....Page 45 in their Manual also states that "every 3 years you are to have pressure relief valves inspected by a licensed plumbing contractor or authorized inspection agency." It also states the safety relief valves must be operated at least once per year...  In my opion, I think these are the reasons the pressurized systems have not become very popular... The open systems are simpler to install, maintain and possibly safer.

[MattyNH]

I think pressured boilers have to be installed by licensed/registered mehanical contractors? Open systems can be installed by anyone (homeowner).

Don't think thats true.. Know a few people that did it themselves 100%..They arnt plumbers