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Author Topic: will this boiler suit my needs?  (Read 15693 times)

nstueve

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will this boiler suit my needs?
« on: August 27, 2013, 10:26:33 AM »

I found a Shaver 165 for $3800 supposedly never had a fire run in it. I have read some of the mods you can do to it to make it more efficient but the main question is can it heat my house and how long will one charge of oak last???

The house we are buying is 2200 sq ft not including a full basement and a garage 2.5 car garage. Newer windows and doors and new vinyl siding. lots of vaulted ceilings everywhere. located in central Iowa.

Also I'd like to know if I fill it with oak during the AM how long will that charge of fuel last? The wife and I have 40hr work weeks with 8 hr work days... even staggared we'd be looking at 9hours minimum before we recharge the boiler. The house has a 15year old gas furnace currently that runs good but i'd rather have the cheaper wood heat!

Cheers!
 
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Scott7m

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 11:52:11 AM »

There are many options available to you not far from that price that I would consider many times better than a shaver.

Ridgewood for example is something I carry that I sell locally for 4200 that's far superior to a shaver.  Google shaver problems or simply read this forum.  Its a nightmare and I assume your getting no warranty so its an all around bad deal.  They are very crude and quality control is something not found.

When it comes to the most economical yet good working stoves I look towards ridgewood or perhaps an earth wood furnace.  Shaver is one I advise everyone to steer clear of
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RSI

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 12:29:58 PM »

Also, it sounds like it would be a little too small for that house. If you want to go as cheap as possible, I would take Scott's advise and look at something like Ridgewood.
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swede

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2013, 04:42:43 AM »

We heat a 3000 ft. home plus dhw in N. Minnesota with a stock 165.....no problems.  Expect 16+ hour burns in normal winter weather.  Don't let the Shaver haters scare you they are a good basic stove
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nstueve

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2013, 08:02:07 AM »

I am reading the "I hate my Shaver" thread right now. I am not opposed to a Shaver if I can get this one cheap enough and do the mods myself I really don't care. I am a big DIY guy and will do anything that saves me a decent chunk of $$$. That being said if the mods still leave much to be desired then I can see myself spending more on a good boiler to begin with. I guess the real question is can we determine if the Shaver 165 is sufficient for my needs...???

I'm thinking I only need to heat a little more than the 2200sqft in the main part of the house. The basement has no windows or doors and is completely banked up with dirt on all sides. So the basement will benefit from ground heat and won't need much from the boiler. After talking with a friend I want to send the hot water about 40' underground into the house and >40' inside the house... Through the heat exchanger, then through a side arm unit on the hot water heater, maybe to a kick board unit in the garage (just enough to keep garage above freezing and melt snow off over night), and then back to boiler.

Right now i'm torn between not wanting to spend the extra $2000 on a Central and fixing a Shaver up... Or just buying one thats good to run right away...
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slimjim

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2013, 08:48:33 AM »

You will get what you pay for either way, is it all worth the time to hack or do you want to be done with it.
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nstueve

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2013, 10:02:02 AM »

will me hacking on a 165 equal the same quality as a better branded $6500 boiler once the mods are made?

I have time to hack if it will result in something quality but I don't want to continually fix stuff every year if these have chronic problmes. IE: I don't want to buy a ford pinto and have a continual jalopy on my hands.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 10:05:25 AM by nstueve »
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RSI

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 10:55:58 AM »

Have you looked at any others yet? If not, I would take a look at some others and looks closely at stuff like the welds and build quality. Then go take a look at the Shaver and decide for yourself if you think it will work. I know there is a Ridgewood dealer in south west Wisconsin. Not sure if they have any closer to you. Me and Scott mentioned this brand because the cost is not going to be that much more.
If you go up to the $5000+ range you will get a lot more options.
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nstueve

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2013, 11:54:53 AM »

I started looking at a few more options... the shaver was local and sold 2nd hand as new so I could pick up without shipping/sales tax to add to the overall cost.

I've heard good and bad on the Shaver and want a 20-30 year boiler if possible. I'm 30 in october and we are buying our first house so I wanted this purchase to be cost effective. Even if I could get a good one for $5K the installation components are still going to cost me another $1200-$1500 for the setup I'm looking at and I don't know if $6500 is in the budget. 2nd hand is fine with me as long as its built to last so I started looking on CL. I didn't find much that is close to me. There was a Taylor in SW WI and this Shaver local. I know 1 winter won't kill us to run the gas but I figured if we'd save money in the long run why not install one right away and have another winters worth of savings.

Right now I'm trying to price out other Brands like Portage & Main, Central, etc...
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Scott7m

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2013, 12:05:10 PM »

Do it once, do it right. 

Taylor is another one that's not very highly regarded.

But if your comparing a brand like central to shaver or other top brands there is no comparison.  You don't have to take our word for it though, just simply use the forum and google to do some research. 

If you truly have to act now, check out earth wood furnace or ridgewood, yes I do carry those and the reason being is there are many folks in your same situation, but to tap into that market I didn't want to sacrifice dependability to make a sell.  I have done a lot of leg work trying to find a lower cost unit to expand my market from those who couldn't currently afford a top brand. 

Good luck in your search, and also be very leery of any used stoves out there, rarely are they taken out for no reason. 
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nstueve

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2013, 12:17:57 PM »

Around here I see wood furnaces of all sorts being taken out because people from the city with big$$$ move to the country and most of the time will not cut wood to heat. They will tear it out and get rid of a unit for being an eyesore rather than use it.

I have been doing lots of reading on all the boilers but there are so many brands and sizes and most places don't list a price (cough, portage and main)... it's hare to do a numbers comparison on which will suit my needs financially and physically when its not provided.

So what are the drawbacks to the ridgewood and earthwood when I compare to a Portage and Main boiler or a Natures Comfort boiler...

I have narrowed it down to a OWB and not a gasifier... according to some maps I'v looked at I need 50-55 Btu's/ft which would be...
 2200 sqft x 52.5 = 115,500 Btu's
38in Side Arm = 11,500

Plus 2 kick boards (1 garage, 1 basement), and a side arm for water heater but not sure how many btu's to add for those three??? 30,000 Btu's???

Sorry if this comes off as asking for all the answers... I'm also kinda using this thread to collect the data for what i need... and if anyone chimes in... thanks!

and thanks for the helps so far all!!!
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 12:23:39 PM by nstueve »
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Scott7m

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2013, 01:15:40 PM »

Well....   This is getting pretty vast but I will try to help

Let me first say that most btu per square foot ratings are grossly over-estimated.  Now in regards to but output, yes there are many furnaces that can produce over 125,000 btu.  However those ratings are Max ratings, which essentially means there nearly a useless number.  So yes stove a will produce let's say 200kbtu per hour but only if your putting wood in it every 2-3 hours.  Most homes under normal winter circumstances will stay warm from 35-55k btu per hour.  Further north ya go the more that number will rise but generally speaking its a good place to start.    So, as far as btu ratings what's important is how many btu per hour will this stove produce over 12 hours or more.  This is where an experienced dealer could take a lot of the guess work out and keep you from racking your brain over information that is sketchy at best. 

The same thing goes for furnace coils, another joke in my opinion, folks try to size them based on there btu they think they need.  Well first of all the company making the coil has no idea how hot your water is, or how fast the flow of the water is, so once again those numbers aren't reliable.

Now as far as ridgewood vs a portage and main, portage and main is one of the highest priced units, yes they are good, I'd like to sell them here but from my market research I don't think I could sell many based of price.  But, in terms for you,  ml 36 would likely run you over 8000 for the unit alone.  The finish and look of the stove are superior and probably the biggest thing is your buying a brand, also with larger companies there is a greater chance they'll be there down the road to support you.   The earth and the ridgewood are both good units, however e design is simpler and somewhat less efficient, were not talking half as much wood as an 8000 dollar stove but let's say 15% more.  Just a rough estimate, because being involved with testing of boilers in general the numbers there are a huge misconception as well.  Also look at differences in warranties and see which one appeals to you, and then perhaps do enough research or talk to dealers who sell for them and others to see which company they represent stands behind there product the best, if the dealer only sells one brand, your answer may not hold a lot of water haha

I would also warn against the side arm, they allow the water to equal stove temp, and then were relying on a mixing valve to cool the water down before you use it, if the mixing valve sticks, well it's gonna be 180 heading your way.  A 20 plate exchanger can make endless amounts of hot water without relying on the convection cycle that the sidearm does, therefore the water can only get to perhaps 135, so there it makes for a safer and simpler install.   I dont like the feeling of liability when dealing with sidearms especially when a child could potentially get burned.


Sooooo, yea there is a lot to it, and good information is hard to find. 

Hope this helps...

P.s

Also in regards to why the dramatic price increase from let's say a earth to a central?  You'd be shocked to find out how much per stove the big companies allow for marketing. 
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RSI

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 03:38:26 PM »

One of the reasons the Ridgewood is less than others is they use LP tanks for the firebox. I don't see that as a bad thing but some may.

If you do have a Nature's Comfort dealer near you, that would be a good brand to take a look at the welds on for comparison to the Shaver so you can see what they are supposed to look like.

BTW, I don't sell Ridgewood but may consider it sometime in the future.
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Scott7m

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2013, 04:06:02 PM »

One of the reasons the Ridgewood is less than others is they use LP tanks for the firebox. I don't see that as a bad thing but some may.

If you do have a Nature's Comfort dealer near you, that would be a good brand to take a look at the welds on for comparison to the Shaver so you can see what they are supposed to look like.

BTW, I don't sell Ridgewood but may consider it sometime in the future.

Yep RSI it's such a small deal to me I didn't even think to mention it in all my rambling lol
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Speed

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Re: will this boiler suit my needs?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 07:43:00 PM »

Only downfall to the lp tank that I have found is when shoving wood in, the end of the wood sometimes catches that little lip towards the back where rounded end cap is welded to tank. If that is the worst thing, I'm in darned good shape. Inside it was like new steel, and when is the last time you've seen a rusted exterior on an lp tank owned by a distributor? And, Craig says it saves the end user approx. $900.

I'm in full agreement on the plate exchanger for previously mentioned reasons, along with the fact that install is MUCH simpler and easier.

 nstueve, I can sympathize with the budget. I had planned on building one, but ran out of time. That is when I accidentally tripped across Ridgewood. I did the install myself, after pouring two yards of concrete, machine rental, two buildings and hot water hooked up, I finished up at $5550 all said and done. The local Woodmaster dealer wanted $6200+ tax just for owb. Buildings have never been warmer, and by Christmas this year, it will have paid for itself. Not a drop of propane has been burned since last fall when I lit it. Go for it. You'll never regret spending the $ on a system. But you may regret if you wait for next year.   ;D
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