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[nvader]

Trying to make an analysis for a  boiler . House and shop 450' apart. Where would be the best location for the unit. With the cost of piping is there a distance where this does not make sense? Probably this topic  has been dealt with before ?

[slimjim]

As far as location, always try to keep the smoke in mind, I have always used a ten foot pole stuck in the ground with a piece of flagging tape attatched to the top to see wind direction right where the smokepipe will be, this will tell you what it will do close to the building or trees as they do affect wind direction. Try to keep in mind that you will need easy access all winter, next to the shop would be ideal in my opinion, 450 feet in one direction is not a problem if you use good pipe, I only sell LOGSTOR for that very reason, you may need to double up on the circs to get lots of flow.

[Scott7m]

No problem about your distance, lots of options out there for you to how to move that water that far but we've went much farther than that before. 

Place the stove where it's convenient and go from there, there is little to gain by sacrificing location....

But before we could talk line sizes n such we'd have to know a lot more, but it's nothing out of the ordinary

[Crow]

 I'm also trying to decide on my location but curious how many installed there furnace with the door facing into the prevailing wind so the smoke blows into the furnace? Is it important or am I overthinking this?

[Scott7m]

I'm also trying to decide on my location but curious how many installed there furnace with the door facing into the prevailing wind so the smoke blows into the furnace? Is it important or am I overthinking this?

Over thinking a bit

But it don't hurt to try

If I did that the wind would blow the wrong way all winter lol

[nvader]

Ok its doable. Have a 2500 sq ft house ave insulate ,3000 sq ft shop (30k heat loss est) also heating hot water. What size Heatmaster or P and M stove would people  recommend .
Spent 2k on oil last year , shop is new ,hydro for water ; what is the payback for this potential 15-18k investment ?

[slimjim]

The Portage and Main Optimizer 250 will do a nice job for you, are you looking at gassers only or can you still have the conventional stoves at your location.

[nvader]

Conventional an option.
Would a BL 28-40 potentially do the job
Will do a search but what are the options for flow if using 1inch line - in increased flow ; 2 pumps?

[slimjim]

You will be impressed with the B-L series, with that long of a push, adding a second circ will certainly help flow rate.

[willieG]

why not pay once for larger pipe and not have to pay for that second circulator every month?

if you are using a plate exchanger and you are 450 feet away..you still must add any piping in the building and the large head of the plate exchanger. you will be well over 1000 feet of pipe for figuring head. a 1000 feet of pipe at 1 inch at only 4 gpm comes to over 25 feet of head...5 gpm hits 37 feet of head
1 1/4 at 5 gpm is only about 18 feet of head

(i think..lol)

[slimjim]

A single, larger circ on that much head may cavitate the circulator causing premature failure, two smaller circs spaced apart will do the same job with no cavitation.

[Scott7m]

A single, larger circ on that much head may cavitate the circulator causing premature failure, two smaller circs spaced apart will do the same job with no cavitation.

Spaced apart?   Most manufactures I've dealt with have said to always run them in series, back to back and that spacing them out had potential for issues and wasn't nearly as effective, grundfos being one of them

From what I've seen the quickest way to make something capitate is spacing pumps apart...?!?!   Hmm

[slimjim]

Simply think about it scott, for the same reason that you should have space between an elbow and an air scoop, let  the water and air do it's thing, putting them close together to me creates a lot of turbulance that may not be overcome by the second circ, the reason for the second circ is more for reducing head than increasing flow.

[Scott7m]

Simply think about it scott, for the same reason that you should have space between an elbow and an air scoop, let  the water and air do it's thing, putting them close together to me creates a lot of turbulance that may not be overcome by the second circ, the reason for the second circ is more for reducing head than increasing flow.

I was told that separating them was bad because the second pump in line would be trying to pump water that wasn't readily available and be cavitating, by having them back to back, there was no chance to lose flow and they'd be better off and last longer.   It's kind of the same reason I don't like seeing folks put pumps under the house, if its on the stove it has the steady weight of the water keeping it supplied

[willieG]

A single, larger circ on that much head may cavitate the circulator causing premature failure, two smaller circs spaced apart will do the same job with no cavitation.

slim am i to take your quote as saying using the 1 1/4 line with a single pump hitting 18 feet of head is too much?