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[Sloppy_Snood]

Alright, first let me say that I live in Indiana and appear to forced to use an EPA Phase II wood burning furnace/gasifier.

....BUT if I were not (or lived in a state without restrictions), which P&M unit would best be seved to heat 4,300 sq ft 5,900 sq. ft. with a built in 3-car garage, Ultimizer or Optimizer?  (your opinion and why)

Both units look top notch construction to me but honestly, the Optimizer seems to be a little more "involved" keeping it running in good order.  In particular, I have read nearly every post in this P&M sub-forum and have identified a short list of items (concerns?):

• Higher wood consumption level for an Ultimizer (compared to optimizer)
• Increased potential for weld failures due to the multiple Scotch heat exchanger tubes through the waterjacket
• Increased sensitivity of the Optimizer using 2-year seasoned wood (moisture content <20%)
• Nozzle erosion for the Optimizer
• More limited access to the water jacket for firebox for welding repairs (if ever needed)
• Longer burn times for the Ultimizer (not sure if this is true or not) when heating the same structure

Am I completely off base here or what?    Please help set my mind straight. 

I would love to hear comments from Ultimizer owners, P&M dealers, Optimizer owners, and general "smart guys of wood heating." 

Thank you wood burners!  -Slopster

[CountryBoyJohn]

Where are you located in Indiana? You seem to have enough load that you could be legal with a conventional. As long as the stove is advertised to generate 350,000 BTUs, then you can legally own and operate a conventional unit.

I'm not a big fan of the gasers, fully acknowledging that there are plenty of satisfied gasser owners. I just don't have the space on my property to season wood a year ahead. I just like the simplicity of the conventionals.

[Sloppy_Snood]

Thank you for the reply John.  I am in south Putnam county near the Owen Co. - Putnam Co. line.   

[slimjim]

Sloopy, I'll get back to you on this in the AM, The boss is calling me for dinner!!!!

[CountryBoyJohn]

I believe the middle size Ultimizer is Indiana legal.

[mtoll]

The portage and main BL 34/44  Ultimizer is Indiana legal its rated 370000 BTU

[slimjim]

Check the rules first, then decide if you can deal with the learning curve of the gasser, either way I will be here as well as corporate and this forum to support you

[Sloppy_Snood]

Thank you gentlemen!    Ultimizer BL-3444 is on the radar (thanks CountryBoyJohn!) since I understand that it is Indiana-legal.

Looking forward to your reply to my "concern list" in the original post slimjim.   Many thanks for all the replies.

[slimjim]

OK here we go, I'm going to try to compare them with the limited knowledge of the B-L that I have.
#1 yes more wood consumption due to higher stack temps and slightly higher smoke ( smoke is nothing but wasted fuel ) I have seen it run with the 34-44 that I put in to replace a problem gasser, it burns cleaner than that gasser did but the higher stack temps cost the homeowner about 15-20% more wood and the moisture content of the wood is far higher as the homeowner was not prepared for the higher wood consumption.
  2 Yes there is more potential for a leak with the added welds of the tubes on the 250, of all of them that we have sold here I have seen one and it was welded the next day, bad weld on a tube, easy fix.
  3 yes corporate wants dry wood but I will tell you that I ran a 250 at every show that I did last year and all but 2 were done with green oak and beach as I'm in worse shape for getting wood ahead than most of you guys, the big trick with a gasser and green wood is run it hard, put a good load on it and keep it, not suggesting to burn green wood in any stove but if you must to keep warm then use it when you have a good load on the stove.
  4 yes we have had some issues with the mix on the nozzles, we're standing behind them and R+D is working on the issue.
  5 There is something in the works as we speak that I can't comment on right now, give me 1 month and we will announce it.
  6 Probably so but if so it's only because of more fuel being added at filling.
 I hope this answers you concerns, feel free to call or catch me here if you have any further questions.

[Sloppy_Snood]

Wow!   Thank you slimjim.  Much information to think about.   

[slimjim]

Sleep well on it!

[mlappin]

From a guy who built a conventional and doesn't run a gasifier yet...

(1) I'd rather spend the time cleaning the unit every week than the same amount of time cutting wood. Especially this winter, I thought I had enough to last the winter, but I also didn't figure in those days of -40 temps. Cut a lot of wood over the weekend, and spent a lot of time slogging thru knee deep or higher snow, my knees now feel like they are 40 years older than me.

(2) From googling P&M optimizer I haven't found a lot of complaints about failed welds around the scotch heat exchanger. I have found a lot of complaints about other brands to the BBB.

(3) From what I've read in this forum and other forums if you have high enough heat load greener wood can be burnt. Was even suggested in this forum to burn greener wood during high heat demands to cut down on too much of a coal bed forming.

(4) Doesn't sound though as changing nozzles is difficult though in newer units.

(5) unless other brands bolt their water jackets together I can't see any of them being easy to repair the outside of the firebox unless the water jacket is cut off.

(6) see number 1. I'm actually running out of wood to cut. I loathe cutting healthy trees down, prefer to cut dead, storm damaged or diseased trees instead. Have almost 40 acres of woods to cut in though and still might have to start cutting green healthy trees if I stick with a conventional boiler.

[slimjim]

  Thanks mlappin, the gassers aren't for everybody but for those willing to work through the learning curve they are amazing, I will never forget the first time I fired up a gasser, it was a Wood Doctor energy converter, that stove impressed the heck out of me and I've been a huge advocate for the gassers ever since, biggest drawback in my opinion is that the manufacturers reps have done a lousy job with educating the customer on running them, most will turn it around and say operator error and wash there hands of it. this forum is changing that I think.

[slimjim]

PS did you get in touch with Brian?

[MW]

Hi guys.  New to this site, not new to having an OWB.  Recently got rid of one of the ones that resembles an appliance sitting in the corner of your yard.  It was very inefficient, but did the job of heating everything well.  However, time and life (kids) change things and I just couldn't keep up with amount of wood needing cut (18+ cord a year).  The author of the thread is basically asking the same questions I have about choosing between the two models.  But I do have a few others.  Also, I'm considering another brand that seems to be growing in popularity, though I don't know if it is appropriate to compare the two on the P&M site?  The dealer I would use is a great and trustworthy fellow who sells both brands

Is it safe to assume an Ultimizer will consume 15-20% more wood per year? 
Very broad question with a lot of variables, but what is the range in wood consumption and efficiency ratings for the Optimizer and Ultimizer? 
Can someone please explain the learning curve and tricks of using a gasser?

Thanks for the help.