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[mikect05]

Okay I would just like some help understanding this:  It seems that outdoor gasification units are finicky and somewhat troublesome, while people seem to not have all those same things to say about indoor gasification units.  What is the difference?

[Scott7m]

I wouldn't say there is a difference.

The difference or I guess we could say the finicky part comes from how you have to run them.

You must have your wood properly maintained, it has to be of proper moisture content, and type seems to matter more in them than it does a standard or conventional boiler

I was talking with a major manufacturer just this morning, he said in his opinion it takes a special kind of customer to buy a gasification unit and to truly get the most out of it and enjoy it.  That's true in a lot of ways, 95% of my customers are not impressed with burning wood or look at it as a hobby or a new toy.  They look at it as a means of survival from high utilities.  Those are the folks that will never put in the time of caring for wood, or the maintenance and adjustments a gasification unit can require.

With that being said, u do find customers who are amazed by the technology and want to chase every spec of efficiency that is possible, they don't care to devote the time and handle the learning curve that goes along with them

[mlappin]

I think a lot of people as well even though they are told they need to all the things correctly with their wood, moisture content, size, etc. they still have the mindset that it's a OWB and you can throw any kind of junk in it and it will work.

In the spring I've shoveled up all the bark, saw chips and other crap that accumulates on the slab and I get some heat out of it, would that work in the dead of winter? nope. I've also burned stuff so rotten that if you dropped a piece on the cement you had to shovel it up.

 With a gasser, it needs done properly to work properly and I have a feeling some folks don't want or won't put the effort in to use it correctly. Especially being a outside one, out of sight, out of mind compared to a inside one that they start thinking is like their fire place. Need nice split wood that's been stored inside, etc.

Least that's my take from doing extensive reading on this site.

[martyinmi]

Okay I would just like some help understanding this:  It seems that outdoor gasification units are finicky and somewhat troublesome, while people seem to not have all those same things to say about indoor gasification units.  What is the difference?

Trust me on this one. The folks with the indoor units have all the issues that we have, plus a few more that we don't have(smoke indoors,insects,debris, insurance companies to name a few). That's why some of them are selling their indoor units and going to outdoor gassers. Just check on the Hearth site about one and a half pages back in the boiler room. One fellow has ran a Biomass 40 for 3 years and he's giving up on it. In fact, I believe the title of the thread was "My Biomass 40 sucks!" They have creosote issues, control issues, draft issues, just the same as us, but they also have stratification problems, and even leaky mass storage tanks. There are even a few folks on this forum who are former indoor gasser operators.

A gasser is a bit harder to operate, but in my opinion, just barely harder. To operate best, they need to be loaded properly at least twice daily.
They should also be cleaned every week or every other week to achieve the best efficiencies. Mine likes wood from 8 - 12" to be split in half. Over 12" gets quartered.  Anything under 8" gets tossed right in.

I would never go back to a conventional unit.

[slimjim]

Mike, the difference rather indoor or outdoor between gasser and conventional is education, if we can take the logic and experience from guys like Marty, Scott , Yoder and some others and use it to educate a new owner, with some flexibility on the owners part WE WILL MAKE IT WORK!  indoor guys are set in their ways and will not look outside of the box, the benefits outside certainly outweigh the drawbacks, it is just simple logic, why would anybody choose to burn wood inside their home, simple, because they don't like their current heat source, they simply choose to burn what is naturally available as a natural renewable resource, some even choose it because it is a zero carbon fuel, some of us choose a gasser because it consumes a lot less of that fuel and others have no choice because of regulations imposed at least partially supported by the indoor and pellet industry, for the most part the members on this site really don't give a darn how you do it, we simply want you to burn wood and will do what is within our power to make that a rewarding experience.

[mikect05]

Thank you guys (you all are guys right?)!!!

Personally I would like a gasser because it's less wood and more efficient, but I also would like to have some flexibility in how I burn it.  I don't mind the fact that you need to burn well seasoned wood because no matter what you are burning in the more seasoned your wood the more efficient it's gonna be. 
My big concern, what I am trying to figure out is what you do on warmer days when it's not being called on for heat.  I plan on putting in a heat pump and have that take the heating load on warmer days, what do I do with the wood burner then?  Also is it possible to heat your water in warmer months when no heat is needed with a gasser?  Would it make sense to use the gasser unit with a water storage tank and then just let it go out on warmer days, but then would I have  creosote  building up from that?
Sorry for my ignorance, I am just trying to figure some things out, and I don't have a lot of time to figure it out.  We moved into this house on halloween and the ductwork and insulation is terrible, we have gone through $3000 in oil and 4+ cords of wood in our stove.  Now we have an elderly grandmother who we need to have move in and that means finishing our basement, so I want to figure out what I am doing with the duct and heating lines asap so I can finish it for her to move in.
Again many many thanks, I appreciate the knowledge and time!!!

[Scott7m]

Why would u want to let the heat pump do anything is kinda what I'm wondering?  Also, why spend the additional money on another heating appliance

But, in general as we have discussed it is very important to size a gasser correctly.

Gassers like to run hard to stay there cleanest and work the best, I know you've discussed using it more here and less there and all that and that is hard to allow for when properly sizing a gasification unit.  In a non standard yet conventional outdoor wood boiler that has an additional heat exchanger in the top, a good amount of efficiency is gained without as many potential issues

[slimjim]

Mike, I think a gasser can be used as you are describing but there are some key things that need to be done by the homeowner that will protect the temps of the boiler when it goes out from lack of fuel, I hope to have a couple of beers with Scott this tuesday evening and that subject will be discussed, I will be interested in his take on my thoughts

[Roger2561]

Mike - I own a gasser.  I could use mine to heat my DHW in the summer but I elect not to.  I have to much respect and concern for my neighbors.  One neighbor is about a 1/4 mile to the south - he's not the issue, it's the one that's about 100 yards to the west and the other about 400 yards to north (the neighbor to the east is about 3 miles away).  It wouldn't be right for me to operate my OWB in the summer when they will have their windows open on the hot & humid nights or if they are outside enjoying a BBQ/picnic with their families.  Yes, mine does smoke for a short duration when the wood is at it's coolest after idling and have this smoke ruin their day or night when they are trying to sleep.  I simply couldn't do that to them.  As for operating it - it definitely was a learning curve.  The first winter was tough on me.  The fire went out a few times.  One was due to bridging of the firewood.  Once I learned what it liked (trial and error) that's the only way I stoke it now.  The other time it went out was when I got lazy and didn't clean it for over a month.  Also, I stoke twice a day.  I find it operates best that way.  The wood is split in varying diameters (4inch to 12inch) and stoke it using varying sizes and it's cut to 24in long.  It runs so much better that way.  As for cleaning - some guys/gals on here will spend hours a week cleaning their OWB's, I spend no more than 40 minutes every 2 weeks on mine, which includes cleaning the primary air holes in the firebox of any creosote buildup and clearing the reaction chamber of ash buildup.  Once every month I clean the primary elbow assembly in the rear of the OWB of creosote build up, scrape the heat exchange of fly ash buildup with a homemade scraper, and clear the chimney thimble of ash buildup.  The 3 extra steps I do once every month take about an extra 10 minutes.  I clean mine early Saturday morning before the sun comes up.  This offers me the entire day to get other important things done during the daylight hours.   Roger     

[mikect05]

Thanks Roger.
I don't think I would really want to heat my hot water in the summer, but I am asking because I want to know how the gasser would do with a very little load, and how to run it efficiently that way.

[mlappin]

I don't own one yet, a gasser that is but I've seen several people on this site that use their Optimizer 250's to heat their DHW in the summer.

I'm sure if they can use it at that low of a load you shouldn't have any problems during the heating season under lighter loads.

[coolidge]

I am by no men's trying too talk you out of a gasser, and it would be great for you too stop paying OPEC.
But wouldn't you want to "stop the bleeding before you fix the heart"?

[Roger2561]

Thanks Roger.
I don't think I would really want to heat my hot water in the summer, but I am asking because I want to know how the gasser would do with a very little load, and how to run it efficiently that way.

My experience with the CB E-classic 1400, to operate it in warmer weather the wood has to split in smaller diameters.  If they are too large they'll take longer to rekindle after the idle time, thus more smoke.  Also, the CB units (gassers) have a pulse option.  It is designed to inject a burst of air into the firebox for a period of time of your liking.  As it is still rather cold here in NH, the pulse is set to turn on every 8 minutes for 50 seconds.  This will keep the coals in the firebox from going out during idle.  In the warmer weather, but still too cool to let the fire go out, it's set to turn on every 5 minutes for 50 seconds.  I've never lost a fire even when the outdoors temps reached 75 degrees.  I cannot speak for other manufactorers for CB E-classic 1400 is all I have ever operated.  This is my 3rd season with it.  Roger

[mikect05]

I am by no men's trying too talk you out of a gasser, and it would be great for you too stop paying OPEC.
But wouldn't you want to "stop the bleeding before you fix the heart"?

I am still up in the air a bit on what I want to do, I definitely like the idea of burning less wood more efficiently, but still don't have my mind made up, but am leaning towards a gasser.  To stop the bleeding I will be replacing windows, garage doors and insulating my house better over the coming summer.


Roger- are you happy with the performance of your CB? If you had to do it over tomorrow and could choose any efficiency would you choose the one you have?

It looks like of all the gassers the Optimizer seems the most well liked, well that's my perception from reading these forums, does that seem pretty accurate? 
How much is the cost of a Optimizer 250?  I actually sent an email last week to a guy who is supposed to be a dealer around here but have not heard back from him.
Would anybody care to comment on the Woodmaster G series?  I am also thinking about that one.

[jrider]

My first and only owb has been the opt. 250.  Since I didn't have any other experience aside from an indoor wood stove at my parents house and a fireplace at my house, I don't think I had to endure the learning curve as much as some guys.  I will be finishing up year 3 whenever spring decides to show up and have never had a fire go out on me but I did reach out once because it wasnt gassifying.  I sell firewood and burn all the crap I can't sell and some of it just crumbles when I run it through the splitter but nothing green goes in.  Some of it is all different sizes and shapes to the point where it's easier to just pile it on pallets instead of trying to stack it and yet I've never had a bridging problem.  I do go out twice a day and as said before you can get away with bigger pieces when it's cold.  I try to clean mine every other week during the coldest part of winter but it went 4 weeks until I cleaned it today.  All of the heat exchange tubes were still clear- not by a lot but enough.  I don't worry as much about efficiency as some guys because I look at it as getting rid of wood I don't want- hell I still have full 13 cords under cover that I put up this past summer but I do have neighbors so smoke is always a concern.  Thankfully it was only smoking a little bit before this last cleaning.