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[dodges]

  Im finally ready to to start my install but need some advice on what size line and pump for my application?  I have a 1920 sqft ranch with a basement built in 1996 thats well insulated with furnace in the basement. I also want to be able to heat my garage which is where ill place the boiler.  I have a 260' run from the boiler to the house uphill with an elevation change of about 20'!  I have another 25 to 30' in the house so im looking at about 550' total loop.  First of all is this gonna work with the boiler 20' below the the house pumping uphill?  Second will 1" line work or do i need to go to 1 1/4?  Third what size pump will i need?  Im looking at some 5 wrap inside some 6" heavy wall PVC for the line.  I really cant put the boiler any where else and i really dont want to go to a closed system so any help is much appreciated!  Thanks!

[Roger2561]

dodges - Welcome to the forum.  Have you settled on a manufacturer/model yet? 

I really can't offer any assistance regarding the pump size, piping, etc... All I can say is check with your home owners insurance rep regarding the indoor install.  Some insurance companies do not allow it.  If something happens ( and sh_t does happen) your claim may be denied.  Other than that, be patient, the pro's will be on to offer their assistance soon.  Oh, as I have mentioned to other new members, don't forget to be polite; wave to the oil/propane driver as he/she drives past your house onto another victim of fossil fuels.  Roger

[slimjim]

PLEASE, do some more reading before you start, there are several things that will be an issue if you go the route that you are headed. 1st is putting the boiler in the garage, the beauty of an OWB is the reduced risk of fire along with the lack of smoke and mess inside, could you put the boiler outside and next to the garage with proper clearance from combustibles? 2nd is pressurized vs non pressurized, you will need to install a plate exchanger at the boiler in order to pressurize the loop running uphill to your boiler in the house otherwise you will be constantly fighting a battle to keep air out of the system. 3rd is line sizing and quality of product, remember that all North American pipe is sized nominally,( outside measurement ) Logstor is just over 1 inch inside diameter, this will help with flow, Quality of product, you will not find a better pipe on the market than Logstor for heat loss or durability, any joints in the piping or casing will allow water to infiltrate the insolation and destroy it's ability to hold the heat inside the pipe, any moisture inside the casing will wick away your heat to the groundwater!

[Steinacher Sales]

dodges,
I think for the distance you would need the Taco 2400, only if your system is a open system, non pressurized. I must say that is a long loop. Your Insurance Co. more than likely will not let you put the Outdoor Furnace in your garage, you will have to check with them on that one. I use a lot of 3 wrap where I am in central ILL. seems to work good here. Just depends on where you are located and how cold it gets where you are. Sounds like you have some research to do!

Hope this helps

Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
www.midwestoutdoorfurnace.com 

[Wood Nutt]

My loop is pushing 500' total, but I am not pushing boiler water uphill like you describe.  I used 1" Pex-AL-Pex since it has a larger nominal diameter than standard 1" Pex and thus more flow and BTU's delivered.  I have a Grundfos 26-99 on the long loop but probably don't have more than 5-feet elevation change between the basement and the boiler and its been running 2 years and no issues and always run on either low or medium speed.  Look at the pump curves for the pumps you are considering and find one that has your specifications, down near the middle of the pump curve, so you are not running it at its upper limit all of the time.  I also put both of my pumps at the lowest portion of the loop, in my case in the basement of my house for the house loop and on the back of the stove for my shop loop.  Makes  it easier to get/keep the air out of the circulator pump.  I also made my own line set, 5 wraps of tek foil around  my lines  in a continuous tile line.  All working good so far!

Look at this thread, it  might help too.
http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=4550.msg35656#msg35656 or search on circulators AKA pumps and you should find it that way too.

Hopefully Sprinter will weigh in.  He is a whiz on this stuff.  I kind of get the impression he has forgotton more about circulators than I will ever know!

Good luck and welcome!

[dodges]

First thanks for all the replys and the help!  Second im not putting the boiler in the garage and after reading it I guess I did make it sound that way.  The boiler is definately going outside I just meant it was going beside the garage.  Im building an overhang for all my wood and the boiler will go on the far corner of that!  Slim Ive heard of a plate exchanger before and im assuming you mean just like the ones for your DHW.  So if im understanding you correctly the water will go back through the plate exchanger before going in the boiler on the return side to help keep pressure on the return line so it will keep air from getting in the line?  So for the line im assuming ill need 1 1/4 or like Wood Nutt said pex-al-pex with a true 1" ID? I was going to place the pump at the boiler like Wood Nutt said so it would be at the lowest point and I figured it would be easier to push than pull the water. Am I thinking correctly? Thanks again for all your help!

[slimjim]

WHEW, you had me going there for a minute, glad you explained that again, yes the plate exchanger would go in the back of the boiler or in the garage, yes it  separates  the waters as the one for domestic water does, it will be much larger though, 40-50 plates, I still wish you would reconsider your pipe, nothing beats Logstor.

[Sprinter]

Lots of problems here I see. How many btu will you need? This will tell you how many gallons you need to pump and then that will tell u what size pipe you should run.  260 is a long run, maybe location option should be considered. Also if you don't use logstor plan on using 10% more wood. And if you choose a smaller pipe diameter plan on buying a more expensive pump and using more electricity. And don't forget to buy a spare. The elevation differential is an issue as well, it would be better if the stove was higher than or even with the house

[dodges]

Sprinter im not sure of the exact btu I need but I know the furnace in the house is 75000 input/ 67000 output!  Im not going to heat the garage all the time but would like to flip the fan on when working in there.  Unfortunately even if I moved the boiler by the house I would still have to pump down to the garage and I really dont have a good spot to put it by the house.  Im sure logstor is the best but I dont think I can swing it with all the other expenses.  Just not enough in the budget unfortunately!  Slim im curious why I would need a 40 or 50 plate and not just a 20 plate.  Not doubting you but I thought the Plate exchanger was just to put back pressure on the return line and figured it really wouldnt matter what size.  Rodger sorry I didnt see your question on brand!  I like a couple different brands and im lucky in that I have about 6 or 7 different dealers within 45 min of me.  Central, natures comfort, woodmaster, tennessee, taylor, acme, mahoning, hawken.  I know people with central, natures comfort, woodmaster, and mahoning and they all look very well built.  I just wish there was someone with my setup  that could give an answer on whether this will work before I dump all this money into it.  Thanks for the replys!