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[slimjim]

Thanks guys but don't be afraid to jump right in with your opinions as wardog is not here to bash and truly does have a problem stove, he has sent me some pics where the leaks can be seen and is only looking for advice on how to handle the manufacturer, perhaps we can all help in some way, if it is OK with wardog I think I will call the manufacturer today and try to speak with them.

[aries9245]

I am fimiliar with this boiler this was my first boiler I bought about 8-9 yrs ago and did last all that time with extreme heat loads that my place put on it my biggest problem was amount of burn time it could not handle my home6 hrs max burn time and that was on a mild day 4 hrs on colder days anyway I put up with it until last year while loading the boiler I hit the back of the firebox and punctured a hole lost all of antifreeze .. And I replaced ithe boiler instead of repairing it the forebox is 16gauge steel very thin and I guess after yrs of burning the box wall got even thinner.. The owner is a great guy and very knowledgable  I know he does sell the firebox seperate u can replace it for  around $600  plus to have a welder rip it apart I know it sucks been there..

[wardog]

Thanks to all who have had input on this thread and to those who have PM's me as well.  I am looking for definitive answers to a lot of questions I have pertaining to OWB and it appears that I find mostly subjective answers.  I totally understand that circumstances can vary by situation but I have some questions and or concerns as a product consumer that I think an industry should be able to answer definitively.  Please bear with me on the length of this post.
Why would an OWB, gasification furnace be designed to burn only dry, split, cured wood.  I am curious as to what that actually means?     What is a recognized method of knowing the moisture content of the wood one is burning and is there an industry standard as to what is considered dry, cured wood.  Is one of those moisture meters that I see firewood dealers use when selling dried cured wood an accepted means of measuring moisture content?  What is the basis for burning dry, split, cured wood and does burning wood up to say 25-30% moisture cause the firebox to fail prematurely or is it merely an issue of efficiency in that green wood uses up the heat in just drying it first?   What is the standard gauge of metal used in an OWB firebox especially one that is a gasification boiler.  What exactly defines a gasification OWB, is it simply forcing air into the combustion chamber such as a forge would do?  I know the EPA has gotten involved in this industry and is it the standard for ALL those EPA tested, to burn only dry, split, cured wood.  Are all OWB required to burn dry, cured wood and if not why?
Would a boiler the size of the one I pictured would be able to heat the same size building, on the same amount of wood that was cut, split and cured for a years heating with one of the huge outdoor wood boilers heat it for two or three years longer?  Here's a several thousand dollar question, will burning wood at 20-30 percent moisture content cause a firebox or the welds to fail if burning such for a time period of 6-8 weeks?  How about having an OWB sitting in a totally enclosed pole barn for a couple of years without any liquid in the reservoir causing the firebox or welds to fall in this very same 6 to 8 week time frame?  What would those with experience and expertise think about a claim that a jar from a 6” tree limb striking the cabinet of such an OWB causing cracking or breaking the welds on the opposite diagonal corner inside a firebox?  I’m a novice on OWB and welding but all I have heard about welds is that they should actually be as strong or stronger than the original pieces of metal joined together if done correctly?

[willieG]

I don't care if you burnt wood that was 50% moisture, in the first year  there is no way it would rot through. the stove leaked in the first 8 weeks on a seam?....bad weld , that's it!

I have made  diesel tanks, gas tanks, hydraulic oil tanks all out of metal as thin as 12 gauge steel, these tanks are out in the weather and bounce through some pretty rough terrain, they don't leak

You Sir, are just one of many who  get a lemon and come to find out, the manufacture does all he can to get out of warranty. Those here (like Slim) that may have some pull with the manufacturer may be able to explain to them that there may be a lot of bad publicity from a story on a site such as this one as it sees a lot of traffic.

I wish you luck.

[woodman]

Thanks to all who have had input on this thread and to those who have PM's me as well.  I am looking for definitive answers to a lot of questions I have pertaining to OWB and it appears that I find mostly subjective answers.  I totally understand that circumstances can vary by situation but I have some questions and or concerns as a product consumer that I think an industry should be able to answer definitively.  Please bear with me on the length of this post.
Why would an OWB, gasification furnace be designed to burn only dry, split, cured wood.  I am curious as to what that actually means?     What is a recognized method of knowing the moisture content of the wood one is burning and is there an industry standard as to what is considered dry, cured wood.  Is one of those moisture meters that I see firewood dealers use when selling dried cured wood an accepted means of measuring moisture content?  What is the basis for burning dry, split, cured wood and does burning wood up to say 25-30% moisture cause the firebox to fail prematurely or is it merely an issue of efficiency in that green wood uses up the heat in just drying it first?   What is the standard gauge of metal used in an OWB firebox especially one that is a gasification boiler.  What exactly defines a gasification OWB, is it simply forcing air into the combustion chamber such as a forge would do?  I know the EPA has gotten involved in this industry and is it the standard for ALL those EPA tested, to burn only dry, split, cured wood.  Are all OWB required to burn dry, cured wood and if not why?
Would a boiler the size of the one I pictured would be able to heat the same size building, on the same amount of wood that was cut, split and cured for a years heating with one of the huge outdoor wood boilers heat it for two or three years longer?  Here's a several thousand dollar question, will burning wood at 20-30 percent moisture content cause a firebox or the welds to fail if burning such for a time period of 6-8 weeks?  How about having an OWB sitting in a totally enclosed pole barn for a couple of years without any liquid in the reservoir causing the firebox or welds to fall in this very same 6 to 8 week time frame?  What would those with experience and expertise think about a claim that a jar from a 6” tree limb striking the cabinet of such an OWB causing cracking or breaking the welds on the opposite diagonal corner inside a firebox?  I’m a novice on OWB and welding but all I have heard about welds is that they should actually be as strong or stronger than the original pieces of metal joined together if done correctly?

The moisture content of wood has no affect on the integrity of the welds. Moisture in ashes can cause corrosion in metal over time, but not within 6 weeks. Just because a boiler burns wood with or without aid of a blower does not make that boiler a "gasification" unit. Turning solid wood into heat and smoke is not the definition of secondary gasification. 20% mc is considered cured or fully seasoned. Unless your underground lines are complete crap, or you are trying to heat your house with the windows open, you should not have used as much wood as you stated in the first post.

[slimjim]

 The point is that the person you are speaking to at the manufacturer is simply attempting to use your lack of knowledge to cover up their mistake, there is no way that the firebox rotted out that quickly.
 I read their entire page, I did not see anywhere that they said this unit was a gasifier and it is certainly not, perhaps verbally they may have eluded to it but that would be a hard one to prove. The stove I saw was nothing more than a tank in a tank with some pretty outrageous claims as well as some pretty damaging claims of the rest of the competition. I would welcome a conversation with the guy on the other end of the phone or better yet to have him pull up his big boy pants and come on line to justify his claims.
 Wardog you have sent me photo's, I have looked at them, even the tree limb falling on the box should certainly not have damaged the firebox to the extent of leaking.
 In my opinion, call him out to defend himself, send him a copy of this thread via E-Mail along with the stats, there are over 5000 members here, if he will not do it here then small claims court will work, regardless his company will not be around for long as that model unit will never pass the EPA mandate and he will no longer be allowed to make / sell them in this country, get what you can before he goes belly up and chalk it up to a learning experience

[mlappin]

 

[wardog]

To update this situation I have been in contact with the manufacturer and even had a welder he recommended out to look at the boiler to see about repairing it.  When the manufacturer got back with me he stated that we needed to fill the boiler with water to see where the actual leak was.  I said OK, I would continue to try to work with him and when it warmed up I went out with 25 gallons of HOT tap water and filled the boiler water reservoir.  I didn't see any leak on the inside of the firebox but did see the small dripping on the outside of the firebox when I removed the access door to look at the water level.  I left the water sit in the boiler for nearly four hours and never did see it leak on the inside of the firebox but it continued to have a small leak running down the outside corner at the back of the firebox.  I drained the water because of the cold temps and sent the manufacturer an e-mail of what I found and to tell him the welder would NOT be able to fix what they could not see.  I got NO communication from the seller after my e-mail so I posted for expert advise on another forum of www.hearth.com and was surprised to see another person that had the same problems with one of these units and a thread going back to 2009 about this very unit at http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lil-powerhouse-boiler.29342/   After I read through the 6 pages of discussion and seeing the same ole rambling on from the manufacturer without addressing any of the issues, I called the manufacturer.  I told him that his request to put water in the reservoir did NOT show a leak inside that the welder could repair BUT it did show the exact very same leak on the outside of the firebox.  The phone went dead and after several minutes of silence, I said Hello, hello are you still there and he responded "YES, I'm just trying to think where that leak could be and thinking I will have to go back and look at the pictures you sent."  At that point I told him I was tired of messing with this unit and I knew he would NOT return my money as he has never accepted any responsibility for the issues seen in my unit in the short 6-8 week time frame of actually using it so would he be interested in buying it back CHEAP?  His answer was NO.  Of course my patients were wore then and the conversation then went south and I told him he left me no choice but to advertise his unit on eBay where I bought it and that I would NOT back down from listing item as I saw it.  He then said he would sue me if I libeled his company to which I replied, "I am not the other guy that listed his defective OWB that he purchased from him on ebay but he got him to remove the ad by threatening libel and in fact I cherish that opportunity to defend his allegations in court!"  I knew discussing this claim of libel with the manufacturer was an exercise in futility so I hung up with him.  As soon as I can get good pictures of this "Finest in GASIFICATION" LIL Powerhouse Hydronic heater I will post my used unit for sale that even the manufacturer would NOT buy back.  OH he did say he would repair it for me BUT that would mean I would have to pay shipping to/from of 1000 miles one way plus material and labor as it had only a 90 day warranty.  This is why I asked for expert opinions and I may need them in court BUT I think I have to do this to prevent unknowing consumers as I was go uninformed about this particular manufacturer.  It appears there are probably more other than me that have had such problems in short usage time periods.  here is a link to the thread from the other site for your reading pleasure  http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lil-powerhouse-boiler.29342/

[wardog]

I just listed this OWB for sale on eBay should someone be looking for "The finest in updraft GASIFICATION" technology.  I've heard and read that ALL the big manufacturers are trying to obtain this technology!

[wardog]

The add has had 267 views and 6 watching but not a single offer or question about it as of yet.  Maybe I didn't make myself clear that this is "The finest in updraft GASSIFICATION" that ALL the other big companies are trying to copy!  I understand that my add was a little difficult to read through so I revised it for better reading,  Evidently that didn't help as I have had numerous views of it without folks jumping on this to make an offer.  I am curious if I made it clear how great this "lil Powerhouse" is and in that it is advertised as what the BIG companies use as their lead?

[kommandokenny]

Could not find it on ebay
Got a link??

[racnruss]

I read your ad. It was quite lengthy and wordy.  I know your situation but by reading your ad I couldn't tell if you were actually trying to sell it or make a point about your experience with the company in order to save someone else from the disaster.

[GCTerpfan]

I read your ad. It was quite lengthy and wordy.  I know your situation but by reading your ad I couldn't tell if you were actually trying to sell it or make a point about your experience with the company in order to save someone else from the disaster

 I am guessing he is trying to get his point across without opening himself up for a slander law suit.

[TheBoiler]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOW-Outdoor-Wood-Boiler-/331499876466?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2eeeb072

The eBay listing.

I read the thread on Hearth.com and definitely WOW!.

I also googled the manufacturers name, another WOW.

The mathematics are challenging. One load produces c2m BTUs, looking at the fire box size if you could put in a solid piece of wood it would be 1/10th of a cord and equal 80% efficiency. As that would not be physically possible efficiency must be over 100%.

And that would be a load of over 500lb in a boiler weighing 800lb.

How do you transfer 500, 000 BTUs using 3/4 inch per?